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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #21
RE: NEW stadium construction
Yea, not sure I'd use SMU as a comparison to ODU in any way except they both have classrooms in them.

On the point of underfunding one to benefit the other, I wonder what the giving levels would say about where the investments should go. In other words, did our giving go down or way up when we started football? And if we went back to basketball-only, could we sustain even close to the donations we get now?

The true answer would rise as evident if we could ask donors to designate how much of each gift goes to each area/sport. That would certainly do it. But that would surely put the Olympic sports in deep trouble, so ODAF (and every other athletic foundation) would have no interest in finding that one out.
12-07-2017 04:04 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #22
RE: NEW stadium construction
(12-07-2017 04:04 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Yea, not sure I'd use SMU as a comparison to ODU in any way except they both have classrooms in them.

On the point of underfunding one to benefit the other, I wonder what the giving levels would say about where the investments should go. In other words, did our giving go down or way up when we started football? And if we went back to basketball-only, could we sustain even close to the donations we get now?

The true answer would rise as evident if we could ask donors to designate how much of each gift goes to each area/sport. That would certainly do it. But that would surely put the Olympic sports in deep trouble, so ODAF (and every other athletic foundation) would have no interest in finding that one out.

Sure there are a lot of differences, but SMU is currently a G5 football program, and ODU is too. If we strive to be one of the best at the G5 level, and strive to one day get that elusive access bowl slot, we will have to be able to compete with the likes of SMU in facilities, coaches and fan support. As will any other school in the G5. If we don't at least try, and have that mind set, theres no point being in FBS. I don't think Rice, So Miss, Marshall, La Tech, UCF, USF, ECU etc look at SMU level success as some unattainable status even though the only similarities with those schools are likely classrooms as well.
12-07-2017 04:32 PM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #23
RE: NEW stadium construction
Personally I don't look at SMU's status in the G5 as unattainable at all. I just don't think one can answer the question about the split of basketball and football funding in a vacuum and/or by just looking at one of the wealthiest universities in a wealthy city like Dallas holding an endowment level that a school like ODU could only dream of. It is just a much different calculus for them. If they wanted a new stadium, IPF, or dedicated athletic dorms, they just go to the well and buy it. ODU has to get permission from detractors like Kirk Cox. Totally different deal.

To me, the operational split of G5 budgets have many better comparable institutions to look at than a school like SMU or even Tulane. And I just think that any debate about what sport is holding back another should also include a thought about where donors want their funds spent. That's what ADs have to manage and it would be a more intelligent conversation if posters would consider those facts IMO.
12-07-2017 04:56 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #24
RE: NEW stadium construction
(12-07-2017 03:45 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 03:34 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 03:27 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 03:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 11:24 AM)monarx Wrote:  This was an interesting snippet from an article about the SMU coach leaving, and how facilities and fan support matter to recruiting and coaching.

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college...g-arkansas

"Of course, Morris wasn't in it for the long haul on the Hilltop, but SMU should have at least made it a hard decision, if for no other reason than to keep the job attractive for all the coaches to come. Like most in today's arms race, Morris wanted an indoor practice facility. Promises reportedly were made; still, no dirt has been turned.
Worse, from a visual standpoint, was the embarrassing spectacle of all those empty seats. How can you impress recruits with that as a backdrop?
Fans simply didn't support Morris' efforts. Wouldn't even come in from the Boulevard.
Until they make that short walk, it'll be difficult to hire -- much less keep -- a good coach.
Many SMU students remember the good ol' days or consider anything less than "power five" status unworthy of their time. Students support the basketball program because it was national caliber under Larry Brown. Easier to build something big in basketball, especially when it's fronted by a legendary coach."

This is off topic, but I wonder when non P5 schools will realize this, and allocate funding accordingly. There is much more room for schools like ODU and SMU to build their brand, and bring attention to their university, via basketball than football.

Probably when the revenue brought in matches or exceeds football. People are literally buying bball season tickets just to improve their seats at football. When that happens the other way around, I'm sure priorities will change.

Because we do not invest at the necessary level to make basketball a hot ticket, nor a national level competitor. Your approach ensures that football is more valuable than basketball by under-funding basketball to support football.

If basketball got the first bite at the pie then we would be paying a basketball coach as much as our football and basketball coaches are making combined. We would also have built a bigger, more impressive practice facility, would be focusing our marketing efforts on filling The Ted etc. That is what I am talking about when I say I wonder how long it will take for admins at our level to realize that basketball can bring more attention and branding opportunities that football ever can. If you don't believe me do some research on Gonzaga's ROI from basketball, or just look down the road at the benefits that VCU has reaped from its basketball reputation. It is much harder to find mid major football programs that have seen the same type of ROI for their university.

And one could just as easily point to Memphis or Boise State as counterpoints. The former has invested heavily in hoops and are now seeing better returns in football.

Further, let's not act as if what VCU or the Zags was done by investing big before they won. They hired the right guys when they were young and affordable. They then won big and kept the ball rolling. They caught lightning in a bottle and capitalized.

Neither program spent heavily on hoops until they went deep in the dance. But you want to reverse that order when football is already driving double the donations VCU will collect this year? Okay. Good luck explaining that to the boosters when the majority give solely for football.
We were in the position they started in, we did not spend the money to continue our trajectory when we needed to. Basketball success at the mid major absolutely correlates with success. In football that correlation is not as absolute and much more difficult to attain due to the higher cost of building a football program that is notable on a national level.

And btw, Memphis' brand as a national household name was built by its basketball program. Their football team is an afterthought unless you pay attention to mid major football.

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12-07-2017 06:36 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #25
RE: NEW stadium construction
(12-07-2017 04:04 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Yea, not sure I'd use SMU as a comparison to ODU in any way except they both have classrooms in them.

On the point of underfunding one to benefit the other, I wonder what the giving levels would say about where the investments should go. In other words, did our giving go down or way up when we started football? And if we went back to basketball-only, could we sustain even close to the donations we get now?

The true answer would rise as evident if we could ask donors to designate how much of each gift goes to each area/sport. That would certainly do it. But that would surely put the Olympic sports in deep trouble, so ODAF (and every other athletic foundation) would have no interest in finding that one out.
Yall are completely missing my point. The question is which sport is more likely to bring national recognition to a mid major program. Football may bring in more money, but it eats up a ton too, and unless it is bringing in enough to fund itself at a very high level, there is no chance to break through to a level where you are nationally recognized. The required funding to get basketball to that level is significantly less.

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12-07-2017 06:41 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #26
NEW stadium construction
It is also worth noting the difference in available talent between football and basketball. The power 5 obviously eats up the top recruits before the mid majors even get to start. In football that amounts to about the top 6500 players over a four year period, or 1625 per year going to p5 schools, while that number is around 850, or 212 per year for basketball.

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12-07-2017 06:51 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: NEW stadium construction
FWIw, there is a lot more interest in ODU athletics since we started football.
12-07-2017 07:04 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: NEW stadium construction
(12-07-2017 06:36 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  And btw, Memphis' brand as a national household name was built by its basketball program. Their football team is an afterthought unless you pay attention to mid major football.

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Yeah, I noted that. But they're now making more money on their football team than they are with bball. And that is with their continued investment in hoops.
12-07-2017 07:12 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #29
RE: NEW stadium construction
(12-07-2017 07:04 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIw, there is a lot more interest in ODU athletics since we started football.
Locally, maybe. But on a national level has football brought more interest than a top level mid major basketball program could?

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12-07-2017 07:44 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: NEW stadium construction
(12-07-2017 07:44 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 07:04 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIw, there is a lot more interest in ODU athletics since we started football.
Locally, maybe. But on a national level has football brought more interest than a top level mid major basketball program could?

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I would assume so. How much interest doss Northern Iowa have nationally?
12-07-2017 07:49 PM
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