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Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
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msm96wolf Online
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Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
It almost made wonder if I need to reconsider my stance on 8 teams but then again I remember my dad told me "Even a blind squirrel will find a nut on occasion"

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...time-soon/
12-05-2017 02:58 PM
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Chappy Online
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Quote:Nothing against the Knights, but do the college football stakeholders really want UCF playing for a national championship? History, tradition and the commissioners who created this exclusive club say no.

Collusion.
12-05-2017 03:05 PM
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Let's be honest, the real reason that an 8-team playoff is years away (but I believe it will happen eventually) is the same reason a decade ago the BCS told us a +1 model (the model they currently use) was impossible. Because the people running the CFB postseason must have assurances that they keep the bulk of the $$ and the bulk of the power before it can expand.
12-05-2017 03:07 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Just saw this and I never thought that I could ever *disagree* more with Dennis Dodd. The only legit argument is about health concerns, except that the powers that be are hypocritical on that point. Every single other argument is a complete artificial straw-man. I'm sick of the whining about a hypothetical "4-loss conference champion making the playoff". IMHO, as long as it was earned 100% completely on-the-field, then that's ALWAYS more equitable than a bunch of old guys sitting in a conference room in Dallas choosing teams based on the eye test. It's not even that a 4-loss P5 champion is even that likely (which isn't in this day and age) - it's that it shouldn't even matter because if you win your conference, that is the ONLY thing that a school (outside of independents) can do that is 100% within its control and ought to be elevated accordingly. Everything else, such as strength of schedule, non-conference games and eye ball test issues are not within anyone's true control. I also don't know where Dodd gets this wacky notion that (a) there somehow can't be P5 champ auto-bids but (b) there MUST a reserved spot for the G5. Absolutely none of that argument made sense whatsoever. I'm sure the G5 fans on this board would like that one... but once again, that makes no sense.

Also, where on Earth do we get the notion that conference championship games would need to be eliminated to have a larger playoff? Are we once again believing the money-grubbing college administrators that they will supposedly refuse to have 2 more teams play one extra week in January for hundreds of millions of more dollars? Really?

ESPN might not *want* to spend more money, but that doesn't mean that it won't spend money to get the highest-rated product available... and I think an 8-team playoff would raise ratings from the regular season through the postseason across the board.

I could go on and on about these issues, but pretty much every argument against an expanded playoff outside of health concerns for the players is an artificial barrier made up in the minds of the powers that be... and such barriers can be removed easily when the price is right. They did it before with the current 4-team playoff system, where the most powerful people in the sport were stating that there would NEVER be an expansion of the BCS just a few months before they suddenly all changed their tunes. When the price is right, all of these immovable barriers suddenly don't look immovable anymore.
12-05-2017 03:11 PM
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bullet Online
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-05-2017 03:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Just saw this and I never thought that I could ever *disagree* more with Dennis Dodd. The only legit argument is about health concerns, except that the powers that be are hypocritical on that point. Every single other argument is a complete artificial straw-man. I'm sick of the whining about a hypothetical "4-loss conference champion making the playoff". IMHO, as long as it was earned 100% completely on-the-field, then that's ALWAYS more equitable than a bunch of old guys sitting in a conference room in Dallas choosing teams based on the eye test. It's not even that a 4-loss P5 champion is even that likely (which isn't in this day and age) - it's that it shouldn't even matter because if you win your conference, that is the ONLY thing that a school (outside of independents) can do that is 100% within its control and ought to be elevated accordingly. Everything else, such as strength of schedule, non-conference games and eye ball test issues are not within anyone's true control. I also don't know where Dodd gets this wacky notion that (a) there somehow can't be P5 champ auto-bids but (b) there MUST a reserved spot for the G5. Absolutely none of that argument made sense whatsoever. I'm sure the G5 fans on this board would like that one... but once again, that makes no sense.

Also, where on Earth do we get the notion that conference championship games would need to be eliminated to have a larger playoff? Are we once again believing the money-grubbing college administrators that they will supposedly refuse to have 2 more teams play one extra week in January for hundreds of millions of more dollars? Really?

ESPN might not *want* to spend more money, but that doesn't mean that it won't spend money to get the highest-rated product available... and I think an 8-team playoff would raise ratings from the regular season through the postseason across the board.

I could go on and on about these issues, but pretty much every argument against an expanded playoff outside of health concerns for the players is an artificial barrier made up in the minds of the powers that be... and such barriers can be removed easily when the price is right. They did it before with the current 4-team playoff system, where the most powerful people in the sport were stating that there would NEVER be an expansion of the BCS just a few months before they suddenly all changed their tunes. When the price is right, all of these immovable barriers suddenly don't look immovable anymore.

Even the health of the players is a little bit of a bogus issue as every other division, including non-scholarship Division III, has playoffs larger than 8. Many states have 32-64 game playoffs in high school.

And what's wrong with an 8 game playoff including a G5 champ? As far as the autobid, that is one of the biggest reasons for expanding to 8. Champs get autobids in every other NCAA sport.
12-05-2017 03:17 PM
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msm96wolf Online
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
The other 4 conferences would be insane not to sue to include all champs. This is why the CFP does not offer auto-bids to the playoffs. The OSU and Bama actually strengthens their argument as to G5 champs be ignored.
12-05-2017 03:29 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-05-2017 03:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 03:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Just saw this and I never thought that I could ever *disagree* more with Dennis Dodd. The only legit argument is about health concerns, except that the powers that be are hypocritical on that point. Every single other argument is a complete artificial straw-man. I'm sick of the whining about a hypothetical "4-loss conference champion making the playoff". IMHO, as long as it was earned 100% completely on-the-field, then that's ALWAYS more equitable than a bunch of old guys sitting in a conference room in Dallas choosing teams based on the eye test. It's not even that a 4-loss P5 champion is even that likely (which isn't in this day and age) - it's that it shouldn't even matter because if you win your conference, that is the ONLY thing that a school (outside of independents) can do that is 100% within its control and ought to be elevated accordingly. Everything else, such as strength of schedule, non-conference games and eye ball test issues are not within anyone's true control. I also don't know where Dodd gets this wacky notion that (a) there somehow can't be P5 champ auto-bids but (b) there MUST a reserved spot for the G5. Absolutely none of that argument made sense whatsoever. I'm sure the G5 fans on this board would like that one... but once again, that makes no sense.

Also, where on Earth do we get the notion that conference championship games would need to be eliminated to have a larger playoff? Are we once again believing the money-grubbing college administrators that they will supposedly refuse to have 2 more teams play one extra week in January for hundreds of millions of more dollars? Really?

ESPN might not *want* to spend more money, but that doesn't mean that it won't spend money to get the highest-rated product available... and I think an 8-team playoff would raise ratings from the regular season through the postseason across the board.

I could go on and on about these issues, but pretty much every argument against an expanded playoff outside of health concerns for the players is an artificial barrier made up in the minds of the powers that be... and such barriers can be removed easily when the price is right. They did it before with the current 4-team playoff system, where the most powerful people in the sport were stating that there would NEVER be an expansion of the BCS just a few months before they suddenly all changed their tunes. When the price is right, all of these immovable barriers suddenly don't look immovable anymore.

Even the health of the players is a little bit of a bogus issue as every other division, including non-scholarship Division III, has playoffs larger than 8. Many states have 32-64 game playoffs in high school.

And what's wrong with an 8 game playoff including a G5 champ? As far as the autobid, that is one of the biggest reasons for expanding to 8. Champs get autobids in every other NCAA sport.

Yes, exactly. That's what I mean by the powers that be being hypocritical on the health issue. They say that they care, but then take actions that show that they really don't care.

Also agree where I'm all for the 8-team playoff with P5 auto-bids (or contracts to be more legally appropriate) plus the top G5 champ. Dodd's argument was simply strange where he said that an 8-team playoff could allow for the P5 to get auto-bids yet there would need to be one spot reserved for the G5. So, effectively 7 at-large spots plus 1 *G5* spot? I have no idea where that came from.
12-05-2017 03:32 PM
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Bad column.

1. ESPN isn't in a spending mood. This is true. But you can just as easily look at it this way--ESPN might demand 2 more games (the semifinals after the bowls) or they reduce the value of the next contract.

"Imagine Cincinnati playing Wisconsin in a quarterfinal game in mid-December. " Well, we're presumably talking about Cincinnati that is the top-ranked G5 champion playing a Wisconsin team that either won the Big Ten or got one of two at-large spots. So that game would do just fine on TV.

2. Health concerns. True, but that has never mattered yet, and adding two extra football games a year won't make much difference.

3. Who said anything about FCS?

4. He dismisses the idea of autobids. Nonsense. "What if your 8-4 division winner wins the CCG and knocks your 12-0 best team out?" Well, then the conference champion gets in, as the 7 or 8 seed depending on who the G5 sends. And either the 12-1 team gets in as one of the two wildcards, or they don't because they lost a de facto playoff game. 6 autobids (5 P5, 1 G5) and 2 wildcards is very doable.

5. "In that scenario, Alabama and Ohio State -- claiming a combined 24 national championships -- would meet in the first round." So freaking what? Ohio State is playing USC in the Cotton Bowl. It happens.

6. "Nothing against the Knights, but do the college football stakeholders really want UCF playing for a national championship? History, tradition and the commissioners who created this exclusive club say no." I believe that The Powers That Be wouldn't be happy about it. But there is also a track record of TPTB making concessions to pacify the have-nots. And this is a situation where I don't know that the G5 can afford to take a lesser concession--if you think the Peach/Cotton/Fiesta Access Bowl is a "disappointment game" for the P5 team, wait until it's competing with 4 CFP quarterfinal games in the other major bowls..
12-05-2017 03:40 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
(12-05-2017 03:07 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Let's be honest, the real reason that an 8-team playoff is years away (but I believe it will happen eventually) is the same reason a decade ago the BCS told us a +1 model (the model they currently use) was impossible. Because the people running the CFB postseason must have assurances that they keep the bulk of the $$ and the bulk of the power before it can expand.

This. Going from bowls to a 4-team playoff was a huge step. They have a golden goose, and they want to be very careful about what they feed it and how they treat it.
12-05-2017 03:42 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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RE: Never thought I ever agree with Dennis Dodd
Frank,

The lack of logic, or wild conclusion of Dennis Dodd, should not be surprising. While many here note (and more on twitter) how generally less than intelligent Dodd is, the same can be said for nearly every sportswriter and broadcaster. A few at least have some logic pattern in their thinking and a few have some brights, but it's not a very intelligent group on the whole, compared to say a room full of Engineers, Doctors or Lawyers, and they lack the thought process of businessmen. Hence they are always surprised by off field decisions.

Consider who goes into the field, it's not the best and brightest. In the SF Bay Area a political hack like Monte Pool is considered intelligent, because his fellow sports reporters cannot tell the difference between Democratic Party talking points and actual considered thought. This is the norm. You expect too much if you expect logic from these folks. Heck most of them think G5 football schools make money. They have no clue how much those programs are subsidized via tax dollars indirectly.

Now to the subject on hand. I agree on the 5 P5 champions, I am less thrilled with the G5 getting a bid. I think they should be in the pool to consider, but should not automatically be in one of those three slots. This Year UCF and I think that 2004 Boise State team I'd be fine with. But others like WMU last year ... no. Perhaps a top 15 or top 12 ranking would be required.

The biggest problem I see is the semi-final games. Getting decent turnout almost forces on campus. but you don't want a game in Ann Arbor. I'd suggest for northern schools the nearest NFL Dome (Lions for the Michigan schools, Lucas Oil for most of the B1G; Jerry world can serve for Texas and Oklahoma teams that advance from B12; P12 North schools perhaps Levi Stadium and so on).

But going to 8 would actually make the Conference Championships matter. Note, I'd also add a rule that for a non-P5 champion they must play 10 P5 games to qualify. The G5 obviously exempt, as a different criteria would be used to select them.

Oh, my early favorite for G5 access next year is Florida Atlantic -- they have the coach and most of their players coming back, should run the CUSA table again, but need to win 3 OOC games, which I think they will.
12-05-2017 03:55 PM
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