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Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 05:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:Ralph D. Russo
@ralphDrussoAP

Heard Jim Delany on ESPN
Just spoke to Larry Scott.
Takeaway: There is no desire by the commissioners to change the playoff because of the results of the this season's selections.

1:54 PM - 3 Dec 2017

And there won't be any. Sankey won't want it either. To move to 8 is to do away with the CCG's which the conferences make a heap of money by playing. More than they would make with the first round of an 8 team playoff controlled by the networks.

I think this may be a reason we've had the controversy the past couple of years. The networks would probably love to have control of 3 weekends of playoffs instead of 2. The add revenue from the first week would be massive.

With his nose tweaked today, Delaney delivered a classy response while maintaining support of both his league's teams, and of the 4 team playoff which silently means he's not giving up the Big 10 CCG. Remember FOX paid extra to carry it just like CBS paid extra to carry the SEC's. Those two are cash cows not carried under the regular season contracts, at least per se.
12-03-2017 05:08 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 04:25 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 02:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  At the end of the contract, yes. PAC, XII and now B1G have all tasted the humiliation of being left out. I don't think ACC has, but I'm too busy to google right now.

If UCF wins, that makes the case for the G5 Access Bowl spot to convert to an autobid.

It amazes me how people still don't get how this system works. G5 is for teams who don't have a CONTRACTUAL TIE-IN to Orange, Rose, Sugar or Fiesta. It has nothing to do with auto bids. The Orange, Sugar and Rose are in place for 8 more years.

It amazes me how people don't read the first sentence.

Ahem. At the end of the contract, yes. Ahem.

At the end of the current contract, all the details of the current contract expire and are subject to new negotiations between the conferences, the bowls, the networks and to some extent the NCAA itself (the NCAA has to approve the extra game).

If you don't call the New Years Six spot reserved for the top ranking champion of the G5 conferences an "autobid", I'm curious as to what you DO call it.

And while technically, the autobids are currently based on who has a contractual tie-in, that is something of a fiction. When the Big East was a recognized equal of the current P5 conferences, they were guaranteed a bid somewhere in a BCS game. When the current system was evolving, there was an initial announcement that there would be no autobids! Everything is earned!

Powerful actors did not like that idea. IF you think the Big Ten is red-faced today, imagine how the PAC would react if USC were left out of the 8 team playoff entirely, left licking their wounds in the Rose Bowl--or maybe not, if the Rose Bowl is one of the quarterfinals, the PAC champion gets to play in the Alamo or Holiday Bowl.

So no more "autobids"--but there are "contract bowls" and "contract bowl conferences." Which is totally different, except that it's exactly the same. And so I expect that in a new system with 8 teams, the P5 contracts will continue to have autobids.

Since we're talking about a NEW system, which may or may not include the historic bowls (my guess is yes they would, but it's all specuation at this point) I think it's fair to say "I think the G5 Access Bowl would convert to an autobid" without somebody being so pedantic that they start sounding foolish. Again, what does the G5 have now, if not an "autobid" to a New Years Six game.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 05:22 PM by johnbragg.)
12-03-2017 05:16 PM
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msm96wolf Online
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Post: #23
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
What you don't get, the pay out for Sugar and Rose is 40 million per team. I think the ACC gets 30 million for the Orange. Access bowl payouts are, I believe, for the G5 payout is maybe 5 million and two for the other teams. The payout for the BWW Citrus bowl is about even or possibly more than the G5 payout for NY6 G5 team.
12-03-2017 05:29 PM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #24
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 05:29 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  What you don't get, the pay out for Sugar and Rose is 40 million per team. I think the ACC gets 30 million for the Orange. Access bowl payouts are, I believe, for the G5 payout is maybe 5 million and two for the other teams. The payout for the BWW Citrus bowl is about even or possibly more than the G5 payout for NY6 G5 team.

That's true. One of the details to be worked out is how exactly the playoff money gets divided up, as the playoffs gobble up more of the traditional major bowls.

The current system, the G5 agreed that the payout for the Access Bowl team would be lower in return for the guaranteed payout for the G5 leagues being higher. (Basically there was a back-of-the-napkin negotiaton between the P5(s) and G5(s), there was a basic agreement on how much of the pie the G5 would get--about 15%, which is close to 1/6 of the pie--and the G5 went about divvying up that pie between guaranteed payments to each league, payments to each league based on a performance formula and payments to the league who gets the Access Bowl slot.)

With all that as precedent, I'm guessing that 4 traditional NY6 bowls host the 4 quarterfinals, and 2 of them "double host" a non-playoff game and then a semifinal, and the NCG gets put out to the highest bidder. So the "traditional bowls" go from existing in their traditional form 2 years out of 3 to 1 year out of 3.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 05:40 PM by johnbragg.)
12-03-2017 05:39 PM
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msm96wolf Online
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Post: #25
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 05:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 05:29 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  What you don't get, the pay out for Sugar and Rose is 40 million per team. I think the ACC gets 30 million for the Orange. Access bowl payouts are, I believe, for the G5 payout is maybe 5 million and two for the other teams. The payout for the BWW Citrus bowl is about even or possibly more than the G5 payout for NY6 G5 team.

That's true. One of the details to be worked out is how exactly the playoff money gets divided up, as the playoffs gobble up more of the traditional major bowls.

The current system, the G5 agreed that the payout for the Access Bowl team would be lower in return for the guaranteed payout for the G5 leagues being higher. (Basically there was a back-of-the-napkin negotiaton between the P5(s) and G5(s), there was a basic agreement on how much of the pie the G5 would get--about 15%, which is close to 1/6 of the pie--and the G5 went about divvying up that pie between guaranteed payments to each league, payments to each league based on a performance formula and payments to the league who gets the Access Bowl slot.)

With all that as precedent, I'm guessing that 4 traditional NY6 bowls host the 4 quarterfinals, and 2 of them "double host" a non-playoff game and then a semifinal, and the NCG gets put out to the highest bidder. So the "traditional bowls" go from existing in their traditional form 2 years out of 3 to 1 year out of 3.

I am seeing Power 4 with CCG acting as defacto semi's. We should know around 2024 if we are still alive. Right now is pure guessing at the moment.
12-03-2017 05:44 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
It doesn't matter how many teams you put in a playoff as long as it is governed by the joke of a committee.
12-03-2017 05:55 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 05:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 05:29 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  What you don't get, the pay out for Sugar and Rose is 40 million per team. I think the ACC gets 30 million for the Orange. Access bowl payouts are, I believe, for the G5 payout is maybe 5 million and two for the other teams. The payout for the BWW Citrus bowl is about even or possibly more than the G5 payout for NY6 G5 team.

That's true. One of the details to be worked out is how exactly the playoff money gets divided up, as the playoffs gobble up more of the traditional major bowls.

The current system, the G5 agreed that the payout for the Access Bowl team would be lower in return for the guaranteed payout for the G5 leagues being higher. (Basically there was a back-of-the-napkin negotiaton between the P5(s) and G5(s), there was a basic agreement on how much of the pie the G5 would get--about 15%, which is close to 1/6 of the pie--and the G5 went about divvying up that pie between guaranteed payments to each league, payments to each league based on a performance formula and payments to the league who gets the Access Bowl slot.)

With all that as precedent, I'm guessing that 4 traditional NY6 bowls host the 4 quarterfinals, and 2 of them "double host" a non-playoff game and then a semifinal, and the NCG gets put out to the highest bidder. So the "traditional bowls" go from existing in their traditional form 2 years out of 3 to 1 year out of 3.

Based on the collapse of the non-playoff bowls and the difficulty in finding a time slot for the NY6 (which aren't New Year's anymore), I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the 6 (Fiesta?) go to full time semi-final and drop to a NY5 with only one non-playoff game setup by the committee.
12-03-2017 05:58 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
Since the powers that be are likely anticipating a P4 scenario, it's unlikely they'd support an 8-team CFP. However, if it remains a P5, then you might see an 8-team CFP in the 2026-27 season.

I expect the New Year's Six would become the New Year's Eight, with perhaps the Citrus and Alamo Bowls joining the club. I also expect all P5 conferences to secure NY8 autobids for at least their #1 and #2 teams. Maybe something like this?

Rose (Pasadena, CA): Big Ten #1 vs. Pac-12 #1
Sugar (New Orleans, LA): Big 12 #1 vs. SEC #1
Cotton (Arlington, TX): Big 12 #2 vs. Pac-12 #2
Orange (Miami Gardens, FL): ACC #1 vs. #1 among (Big Ten #2, SEC #2, and ND)
Peach (Atlanta, GA): ACC #2 vs. #2 among (Big Ten #2, SEC #2, and ND)
Citrus (Orlando, FL): Big Ten #2/3 vs. SEC #2/3 (depends on who goes to the Orange and Peach)
Fiesta (Glendale, AZ): At-Large* vs. At-Large*
Alamo (San Antonio, TX): At-Large* vs. At-Large*

* at least one of the At-Large teams must be from the G5

Whether the P5 conferences and the G5 as a whole will have autobids to the CFP is debatable.

The 4 quarterfinal bowls will rotate through the NY8 bowls something like this:

Year 1: Rose, Orange, Citrus, Alamo
Year 2: Citrus, Alamo, Cotton, Peach
Year 3: Cotton, Peach, Sugar, Fiesta
Year 4: Sugar, Fiesta, Rose, Orange

Locations for the semifinals and the CFP championship are put out to bid.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 06:36 PM by Nerdlinger.)
12-03-2017 06:21 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 05:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 05:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:Ralph D. Russo
@ralphDrussoAP

Heard Jim Delany on ESPN
Just spoke to Larry Scott.
Takeaway: There is no desire by the commissioners to change the playoff because of the results of the this season's selections.

1:54 PM - 3 Dec 2017

And there won't be any. Sankey won't want it either. To move to 8 is to do away with the CCG's which the conferences make a heap of money by playing. More than they would make with the first round of an 8 team playoff controlled by the networks.

I think this may be a reason we've had the controversy the past couple of years. The networks would probably love to have control of 3 weekends of playoffs instead of 2. The add revenue from the first week would be massive.

With his nose tweaked today, Delaney delivered a classy response while maintaining support of both his league's teams, and of the 4 team playoff which silently means he's not giving up the Big 10 CCG. Remember FOX paid extra to carry it just like CBS paid extra to carry the SEC's. Those two are cash cows not carried under the regular season contracts, at least per se.

Going to 8 doesn't mean getting rid of the CCG.
12-03-2017 06:56 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Will Ohio State out trigger a move to 8-team playoff?
(12-03-2017 06:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Since the powers that be are likely anticipating a P4 scenario, it's unlikely they'd support an 8-team CFP. However, if it remains a P5, then you might see an 8-team CFP in the 2026-27 season.

I expect the New Year's Six would become the New Year's Eight, with perhaps the Citrus and Alamo Bowls joining the club. I also expect all P5 conferences to secure NY8 autobids for at least their #1 and #2 teams. Maybe something like this?

Rose (Pasadena, CA): Big Ten #1 vs. Pac-12 #1
Sugar (New Orleans, LA): Big 12 #1 vs. SEC #1
Cotton (Arlington, TX): Big 12 #2 vs. Pac-12 #2
Orange (Miami Gardens, FL): ACC #1 vs. #1 among (Big Ten #2, SEC #2, and ND)
Peach (Atlanta, GA): ACC #2 vs. #2 among (Big Ten #2, SEC #2, and ND)
Citrus (Orlando, FL): Big Ten #2/3 vs. SEC #2/3 (depends on who goes to the Orange and Peach)
Fiesta (Glendale, AZ): At-Large* vs. At-Large*
Alamo (San Antonio, TX): At-Large* vs. At-Large*

* at least one of the At-Large teams must be from the G5

You may be right about an NY8 but I doubt the Alamo Bowl or Citrus Bowl will be in the rotation.

Alamo out because it's played in the Alamodome and not an NFL stadium.

Citrus out because its such a cash cow for the B1G.
12-03-2017 06:59 PM
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