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Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  "What it used to be" before every bowl had contracts with two conferences, was about a third as many bowls as there are now, and almost no bowl appearances for teams outside the power conferences.

Here's the entire bowl lineup from 40 years ago, the 1977 season. 13 bowls. Only 6 contracted bowl places (Pac-8 and Big Ten in Rose, SWC in Cotton, Big 8 in Orange, SEC in Sugar, WAC in Fiesta).

Cotton Bowl: Notre Dame 38, Texas 10
Orange Bowl: Arkansas 31, Oklahoma 6
Rose Bowl: Washington 27, Michigan 20
Sugar Bowl: Alabama 35, Ohio State 6
Bluebonnet Bowl: Southern California 47, Texas A&M 28
Peach Bowl: North Carolina State 24, Iowa State 14
Sun Bowl: Stanford 24, Louisiana State 14
Gator Bowl: Pittsburgh 34, Clemson 3
Fiesta Bowl: Penn State 42, Arizona State 30
Tangerine Bowl: Florida State 40, Texas Tech 17
Hall of Fame Classic: Maryland 17, Minnesota 7
Liberty Bowl: Nebraska 21, North Carolina 17
Independence Bowl: Louisiana Tech 24, Louisville 14

So, 5 of the 13 had independents and non-majors playing in them. The WAC wasn't a major conference (it should have been, when they weren't playing each other, they loaded up on PAC, SWC, and Big 8 teams to round out the schedule unlike the eastern and mid-south indies). Today we can look at this and think there's only one non-major in the lineup (LaTech), but, that's not in proper context.

There was definitely bias back then, but, I'm just saying that without all of the tie-in's, you had choice. And, clearly, in 1977, you did. Sure, if you were a member of the PAC and had 7 wins, you were more likely bowling than the poor sap in the WAC or MAC at 7. I might feel for BYU and SDSU, getting overlooked for the unranked ISU, NCSU, UMD, LSU, etc. (and, with SDSU beating FSU like a drum the second to last game of the season, and good WAC teams usually filling out their non-conference with PAC, Big 8, and SWC teams rather than independents), but, if we're to think Colgate at 10-1 should have been playing around the holidays...I'm not sure about that, even though today, they'd be playing; you still wouldn't see them paired up with anyone good, though.

Where it concerns skipping games...heck. To be asked back then? No, you played. Scarcity has that effect, I guess.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2017 04:16 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
11-30-2017 03:45 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
Does anyone have a sense of how many of the current bowl games pay out less than what it costs the participants to play in them? It's not cheap taking your team, your marching band and assorted boosters for an extended stay at a bowl site. And in most cases you have to share your payout with your conference mates.

Yet, despite little financial incentive, schools always seem to be clamoring for more bowls, not fewer.
11-30-2017 04:39 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
(11-30-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  "What it used to be" before every bowl had contracts with two conferences, was about a third as many bowls as there are now, and almost no bowl appearances for teams outside the power conferences.

Here's the entire bowl lineup from 40 years ago, the 1977 season. 13 bowls. Only 6 contracted bowl places (Pac-8 and Big Ten in Rose, SWC in Cotton, Big 8 in Orange, SEC in Sugar, WAC in Fiesta).

Cotton Bowl: Notre Dame 38, Texas 10
Orange Bowl: Arkansas 31, Oklahoma 6
Rose Bowl: Washington 27, Michigan 20
Sugar Bowl: Alabama 35, Ohio State 6
Bluebonnet Bowl: Southern California 47, Texas A&M 28
Peach Bowl: North Carolina State 24, Iowa State 14
Sun Bowl: Stanford 24, Louisiana State 14
Gator Bowl: Pittsburgh 34, Clemson 3
Fiesta Bowl: Penn State 42, Arizona State 30
Tangerine Bowl: Florida State 40, Texas Tech 17
Hall of Fame Classic: Maryland 17, Minnesota 7
Liberty Bowl: Nebraska 21, North Carolina 17
Independence Bowl: Louisiana Tech 24, Louisville 14

So, 5 of the 13 had independents and non-majors playing in them. The WAC wasn't a major conference (it should have been, when they weren't playing each other, they loaded up on PAC, SWC, and Big 8 teams to round out the schedule unlike the eastern and mid-south indies). Today we can look at this and think there's only one non-major in the lineup (LaTech), but, that's not in proper context.

No, that is the proper context. It would be silly to say there's no difference between Penn State as a football independent in 1977 and UMass as a football indy in 2017. The only teams in those 1977 bowls that were "non-majors" were ASU, La Tech, and Louisville. And even ASU only had that bowl because the WAC started it to have a bowl for its champion. Which is what you'd have today if ESPN wasn't funding any bowl games themselves, i.e., G5 teams would have bowl games only if their conferences paid out of pocket to finance them.
11-30-2017 07:45 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
My point was that bowls had choices back then. You had less tie-in's. More at-large selections. I don't care who they chose and how status is arbitrarily assigned to that massive body of "independents."

I know there was bias. There were major conference teams who sat home back then, too. Bowls cherry-picked given their locations...Tangerine, Gator, Peach, wanted southern schools, Bluebonnet a Texas one.

I don't look back to the pre-BCS era and think this was great. It was riddled with issues. And for the Fiesta's and Holiday's where "the little guy" got one over, you still had flops where 1 and 2 could never meet and all these split titles. We think the BCS fixed that...it just stacked the deck for polling shenanigans. And the current playoff only found a better way to cut off non-majors from that.
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2017 09:44 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
12-01-2017 09:40 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
(11-30-2017 07:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Which is what you'd have today if ESPN wasn't funding any bowl games themselves, i.e., G5 teams would have bowl games only if their conferences paid out of pocket to finance them.

Actually, such a thing did happen in the past, but I’m not sure if it’s still true today or not: the New Orleans Bowl was started & funded by the Sun Belt conference so its members would have a bowl to go to. The original sponsor of the New Orleans Bowl was R&L Carriers.
12-01-2017 11:54 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
Wimps
12-01-2017 07:17 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
(11-30-2017 07:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-30-2017 12:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  "What it used to be" before every bowl had contracts with two conferences, was about a third as many bowls as there are now, and almost no bowl appearances for teams outside the power conferences.

Here's the entire bowl lineup from 40 years ago, the 1977 season. 13 bowls. Only 6 contracted bowl places (Pac-8 and Big Ten in Rose, SWC in Cotton, Big 8 in Orange, SEC in Sugar, WAC in Fiesta).

Cotton Bowl: Notre Dame 38, Texas 10
Orange Bowl: Arkansas 31, Oklahoma 6
Rose Bowl: Washington 27, Michigan 20
Sugar Bowl: Alabama 35, Ohio State 6
Bluebonnet Bowl: Southern California 47, Texas A&M 28
Peach Bowl: North Carolina State 24, Iowa State 14
Sun Bowl: Stanford 24, Louisiana State 14
Gator Bowl: Pittsburgh 34, Clemson 3
Fiesta Bowl: Penn State 42, Arizona State 30
Tangerine Bowl: Florida State 40, Texas Tech 17
Hall of Fame Classic: Maryland 17, Minnesota 7
Liberty Bowl: Nebraska 21, North Carolina 17
Independence Bowl: Louisiana Tech 24, Louisville 14

So, 5 of the 13 had independents and non-majors playing in them. The WAC wasn't a major conference (it should have been, when they weren't playing each other, they loaded up on PAC, SWC, and Big 8 teams to round out the schedule unlike the eastern and mid-south indies). Today we can look at this and think there's only one non-major in the lineup (LaTech), but, that's not in proper context.

No, that is the proper context. It would be silly to say there's no difference between Penn State as a football independent in 1977 and UMass as a football indy in 2017. The only teams in those 1977 bowls that were "non-majors" were ASU, La Tech, and Louisville. And even ASU only had that bowl because the WAC started it to have a bowl for its champion. Which is what you'd have today if ESPN wasn't funding any bowl games themselves, i.e., G5 teams would have bowl games only if their conferences paid out of pocket to finance them.

So was Arizona St a "major" in said year as they represented the WAC in 1977? Actually I think BYU was the WAC champion but the Fiesta Bowl gave it to ASU when BYU turned it down because it fell on a Sunday that year. BYU won't play on Sunday's. The WAC champion was the Fiesta Bowl rep then...
12-01-2017 07:23 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
1977: San Diego St beat Florida St 41-17. That wasn't an upset. It's amazing what ESPN did to college football. Propped up minors like Rutgers, Miami and Florida St most of the current ACC schools and destroyed anyone they didn't want: the original WAC, ECU, the original SWC leftovers....
Damn shame
12-01-2017 07:36 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Players missing bowl games for NFL draft
and next one is announced:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/...-bowl-game

Derwin James from FSU- #3 prospect on Mel Kiper's big board.... Safety
12-05-2017 02:59 PM
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