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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Defense
What age group do you have Hoops?
12-10-2017 12:59 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Defense
(12-10-2017 12:59 PM)billthebighawksfan Wrote:  What age group do you have Hoops?

11-12. Been with that age for 8 years now. You coach your son/sons right?
12-10-2017 01:09 PM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Defense
Yes, I coach my youngest son and he's 10 years old. Yea, trapping can get you some good points if you have the guys to do it like you're saying. He plays in your age group so I was just wondering. I'm thinking about running a double pick near the elbow and just start letting him read it. You can have one screener wait and cut to the hole, have the other go out a bit for a jumper/outlet and have your PG (my son) take a runner or get deeper to the hole, if he can. I'm telling you, that runner is $ for this age group and has to be part of your PG's game. It's critical!
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2017 02:03 PM by billthebighawksfan.)
12-10-2017 01:54 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Defense
Look, I get that I might be overly optimistic here, but I'm still going to preach patience. If Coach McGrath wants this team playing man-to-man in the long run, he needs to be able to have the latitude to do that. We can hope he mixes in some zone, but not at the expense of his long-term vision.

Even I didn't expect this season to be nearly this rough. We have offensive firepower, and knew we did heading into the season. We also knew our defensive efficiency in the half-court was rough under Keatts. But even knowing this, it would have been hard to imagine the "you have to get worse before you get better" concept would put us in the basement of the NCAA in points allowed.

And yes, I would hope Coach McGrath is willing to be flexible to a point, installing some traps and zones where possible. But again, Coach McGrath's vision extends beyond this season. We need to be able to run man-to-man, and perform well at it. You probably can't play great zone consistently if you're unable to play man-to-man. This is "gut check time" for the team, and perhaps the players themselves need to have some team meetings and decide if the defensive intensity will improve. Because McGrath just doesn't seem likely to scrap his plans and try to be Jim Boeheim just 2 months into his tenure. At least for this season, this is the kind of defense we're going to play; the offseason will be the time to make major changes to the scheme, if needed.

Let's give it some time. It cannot be overstated that McGrath, while walking into a potentially great situation in the long run, was always going to take his lumps this year. No Ingram, Flemmings, or Bryce. A rushed first recruiting class. Installing a brand new coaching staff with a brand new system. None of that is a recipe for success.

But you already have guys here grumbling about the hire. That's lunacy, in my mind. I get that some were against the hire from the start. But you're going to have to simply deal with it for at least a few years. And I imagine that if McGrath ends up having a successful tenure here, it'll make for some fun "thread bumps" down the road.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 09:04 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
12-11-2017 09:01 AM
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70shawk Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Defense
UNCW is #349 out of #351 Division I teams is ppg allowed.

So because you want to eventually play man-to-man, you would rather lose games now than utilize a defense that you eventually don't want to rely upon? By definition, it's one of the worst defensive game plans in America.

Sigh. I've got a notion how that kind of thinking is going to work out....
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 02:31 PM by 70shawk.)
12-11-2017 02:22 PM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Defense
As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.
12-11-2017 07:07 PM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Defense
(12-11-2017 02:22 PM)70shawk Wrote:  UNCW is #349 out of #351 Division I teams is ppg allowed.

So because you want to eventually play man-to-man, you would rather lose games now than utilize a defense that you eventually don't want to rely upon? By definition, it's one of the worst defensive game plans in America.

Sigh. I've got a notion how that kind of thinking is going to work out....

(12-11-2017 07:07 PM)82hawk Wrote:  As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.


Yes, I would rather play man-to-man if it matches the long-term vision of the team, even at the expense of short-term gains.

Our W-L record matters less this season than it does in future seasons. We knew this was going to be a rough season without Flemmings, Ingram, Bryce, and a replacement recruiting class. Hell, Nick Powell is 9th on the team in minutes. That's not exactly a great sign. This year is about Coach McGrath establishing himself and trying to get the guys to buy in to the system.

If the team can't play man-to-man, they can't play zone much better either. Defense is impacted far more by intensity, effort and ability than scheme. How is it fair to put all of the blame on the "gameplan" and thus, the coach?

We need to learn to play tough halfcourt D one way or the other. Playing zone to try to mask our weaknesses won't work in the long-term.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2017 11:26 PM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
12-11-2017 11:18 PM
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70shawk Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Defense
(12-11-2017 11:18 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 02:22 PM)70shawk Wrote:  UNCW is #349 out of #351 Division I teams is ppg allowed.

So because you want to eventually play man-to-man, you would rather lose games now than utilize a defense that you eventually don't want to rely upon? By definition, it's one of the worst defensive game plans in America.

Sigh. I've got a notion how that kind of thinking is going to work out....

(12-11-2017 07:07 PM)82hawk Wrote:  As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.


Yes, I would rather play man-to-man if it matches the long-term vision of the team, even at the expense of short-term gains.

Our W-L record matters less this season than it does in future seasons. We knew this was going to be a rough season without Flemmings, Ingram, Bryce, and a replacement recruiting class. Hell, Nick Powell is 9th on the team in minutes. That's not exactly a great sign. This year is about Coach McGrath establishing himself and trying to get the guys to buy in to the system.

If the team can't play man-to-man, they can't play zone much better either. Defense is impacted far more by intensity, effort and ability than scheme. How is it fair to put all of the blame on the "gameplan" and thus, the coach?

We need to learn to play tough halfcourt D one way or the other. Playing zone to try to mask our weaknesses won't work in the long-term.

Holy smoke, we are the 3rd worst team defensive team in America.

In the crime fighting business , that's what we call a 'clue'.

Something is wrong with the "plan"....
12-12-2017 01:41 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Defense
(12-11-2017 11:18 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 02:22 PM)70shawk Wrote:  UNCW is #349 out of #351 Division I teams is ppg allowed.

So because you want to eventually play man-to-man, you would rather lose games now than utilize a defense that you eventually don't want to rely upon? By definition, it's one of the worst defensive game plans in America.

Sigh. I've got a notion how that kind of thinking is going to work out....

(12-11-2017 07:07 PM)82hawk Wrote:  As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.


Yes, I would rather play man-to-man if it matches the long-term vision of the team, even at the expense of short-term gains.

Our W-L record matters less this season than it does in future seasons. We knew this was going to be a rough season without Flemmings, Ingram, Bryce, and a replacement recruiting class. Hell, Nick Powell is 9th on the team in minutes. That's not exactly a great sign. This year is about Coach McGrath establishing himself and trying to get the guys to buy in to the system.

If the team can't play man-to-man, they can't play zone much better either. Defense is impacted far more by intensity, effort and ability than scheme. How is it fair to put all of the blame on the "gameplan" and thus, the coach?

We need to learn to play tough halfcourt D one way or the other. Playing zone to try to mask our weaknesses won't work in the long-term.


Sorry, that makes no sense. If what you say is true, why does anyone play zone...or press...or do anything different than play man? Yes, zone masks weaknesses in a roster...and? That's what coaching literally IS. Adjusting and changing schemes on offense and defense to WIN GAMES. If the answer is always just "play harder", then it makes no difference who the coach is, which means it is NEVER the coaches responsibility if teams lose...or win...or improve...or get worse because the scheme implemented by the coach doesn't matter.

And, yes, our team COULD play man better than zone...but how could we know? Also, zone gives a lot of teams problems. It's a good defense that helps win games. Quite frankly, if this team ends up outside of the top 5 of the conference, the head coach will have failed. Our roster is simply too good for those results. And, if we go through the year with these defensive numbers and lose, it will be a direct result of a bad defensive scheme for this team.

I'm not saying we should go to a full time zone defense, just that we should mix up our defenses to help a struggling team get wins and gain confidence.

Winning games is more important than force feeding a losing formula.
12-12-2017 05:51 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Defense
(12-11-2017 11:18 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(12-11-2017 02:22 PM)70shawk Wrote:  UNCW is #349 out of #351 Division I teams is ppg allowed.

So because you want to eventually play man-to-man, you would rather lose games now than utilize a defense that you eventually don't want to rely upon? By definition, it's one of the worst defensive game plans in America.

Sigh. I've got a notion how that kind of thinking is going to work out....

(12-11-2017 07:07 PM)82hawk Wrote:  As the saying goes, the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.


Yes, I would rather play man-to-man if it matches the long-term vision of the team, even at the expense of short-term gains.

Our W-L record matters less this season than it does in future seasons. We knew this was going to be a rough season without Flemmings, Ingram, Bryce, and a replacement recruiting class. Hell, Nick Powell is 9th on the team in minutes. That's not exactly a great sign. This year is about Coach McGrath establishing himself and trying to get the guys to buy in to the system.

If the team can't play man-to-man, they can't play zone much better either. Defense is impacted far more by intensity, effort and ability than scheme. How is it fair to put all of the blame on the "gameplan" and thus, the coach?

We need to learn to play tough halfcourt D one way or the other. Playing zone to try to mask our weaknesses won't work in the long-term.


Sorry, that makes no sense. If what you say is true, why does anyone play zone...or press...or do anything different than play man? Yes, zone masks weaknesses in a roster...and? That's what coaching literally IS. Adjusting and changing schemes on offense and defense to WIN GAMES. If the answer is always just "play harder", then it makes no difference who the coach is, which means it is NEVER the coaches responsibility if teams lose...or win...or improve...or get worse because the scheme implemented by the coach doesn't matter.

And, yes, our team COULD play man better than zone...but how could we know? Also, zone gives a lot of teams problems. It's a good defense that helps win games. Quite frankly, if this team ends up outside of the top 5 of the conference, the head coach will have failed. Our roster is simply too good for those results. And, if we go through the year with these defensive numbers and lose, it will be a direct result of a bad defensive scheme for this team.

I'm not saying we should go to a full time zone defense, just that we should mix up our defenses to help a struggling team get wins and gain confidence.

Winning games is more important than force feeding a losing formula.
12-12-2017 05:51 AM
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