NIU is not in the top 10 this year. UCF,USF,Memphis,Boise,Fresno, SDSU, Houston, FAU, Troy and Toledo all would beat NIU. I'd throw in that Ohio and north Texas, navy, would beat us this year too and CMU did, who has the same record as NIU.

I did say top 5 too as those are the schools who are typically getting votes for top 25, not necessarily in the top 25 but in the discussion. Only way to do that is to win some non conf games.

(11-26-2017 12:00 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  NIU is not in the top 10 this year. UCF,USF,Memphis,Boise,Fresno, SDSU, Houston, FAU, Troy and Toledo all would beat NIU. I'd throw in that Ohio and north Texas, navy, would beat us this year too and CMU did, who has the same record as NIU.

I did say top 5 too as those are the schools who are typically getting votes for top 25, not necessarily in the top 25 but in the discussion. Only way to do that is to win some non conf games.

You said programs, not teams.

1 year a program does not make.

(11-26-2017 12:06 PM)7 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 12:00 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  NIU is not in the top 10 this year. UCF,USF,Memphis,Boise,Fresno, SDSU, Houston, FAU, Troy and Toledo all would beat NIU. I'd throw in that Ohio and north Texas, navy, would beat us this year too and CMU did, who has the same record as NIU.

I did say top 5 too as those are the schools who are typically getting votes for top 25, not necessarily in the top 25 but in the discussion. Only way to do that is to win some non conf games.

You said programs, not teams.

1 year a program does not make.

As a program, yes they would be right around 7-8

(11-26-2017 11:46 AM)7 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 11:43 AM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 11:32 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 11:09 AM)7 Wrote:  And to say NIU was set up to be the next Boise State isn't living in reality. There isn't another Boise State. Hawaii, UCF, and WMU all made NY6 Bowls and took immediate steps backwards. Fresno State and Kent State, the two teams NIU was fighting with for BCS Births took huge steps backwards. There's only 1 Boise State.

Hell, people are talking about how disappointing NIU has only won 1 MAC Championship since Doeren left. Boise State has only won 1 conference championship since 2012 too (although they could win their 2nd on Saturday).

If your expectations are for NIU to be Boise State in their prime every single year, you are living in a delusional world. Boise State isn't even Boise State every single year.

NIU has taken has absolutely taken a step backwards since the Lynch days. It's reality. It was always going to happen. If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level. That is never going to happen on a consistent basis. Winning 8+ games like Carey has done 2 of the last 3 years is a totally acceptable season.

Be in competition for the MAC West and go to a bowl game every year, that should be the goal. We aren't Ohio State. This is a school with no fan base and even less money. Carey's been here 5 years, been to the conference title game 3 times, won it once, was in contention for it on the final day of the year this year, and will have gone to 4 bowls. He's nowhere near the hot seat nor should he be. If that's not good enough for you, you are living in a fantasy world.

I've been repeating this for years now - adjust your expectations. If fans would stop seeing NIU as the next Boise and just see them as one of the best Mac teams, things come into perspective. BTW, the MAC is the second worst conference in FBS, so also keep that in mind. NIU competes for MAC championships, not NY6 bowls. Now maybe along the way one season things will fall into place and it COULD happen again. Just don't expect it. (Ironically, this years schedule was perfect. BC,SDSU are two Bowl teams who we could have beaten, and we caught Nebraska at the perfect time. If we had Maddie who knows.)

Yea I have a bit higher expectations than being in the hunt for just a MAC championship each year. Does nothing for the national perception for NIU as the MAC is viewed as a joke of a conference. I view it that NIU should be in the running among The top 5 programs in the G5 each year.

And i would tell you NIU is right there in that top 5-10 G5 programs.

If you win your conference championship and you're a G5 it should put you somewhere 1-10 in the G5. So to say NIU competes for MACCs is to also say they compete to be in that top 10 G5 list. But I'm not sure NIU doesn't get some help by being in the MAC. If they were in the MWC or AAC, we might be looking at more 6-6 or 7-5 years and they'd be considered a solid G5 program more than a top 10. Probably gaining an extra 2 wins a year being in the MAC.

Could anyone who thinks NIU should be a top G5 program give me some reasons? I mean top as in competing for a NY6 spot each season. Because everything I see says they should not. Recruiting - no. Facilities - no. Resources - no. Fan base - no. Academic reputation - no. What they accomplish with what they have is really to be commended. But where do your expectations and reality meet? There has to be some solid reason you think NIU should continue to over achieve. Maybe being in the MAC? That is a logical explanation. Only Mac school in Illinois? Possible. Cool mascot? Definitely. I'd love to hear some valid reasons.

Squirrel agree. We are no where near a Boise or those others, we do not have the resources to consistently compete at that level. Fan base, resources $$$, .... What we accomplish is "Done the hard way"

(11-26-2017 12:23 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Could anyone who thinks NIU should be a top G5 program give me some reasons? I mean top as in competing for a NY6 spot each season. Because everything I see says they should not. Recruiting - no. Facilities - no. Resources - no. Fan base - no. Academic reputation - no. What they accomplish with what they have is really to be commended. But where do your expectations and reality meet? There has to be some solid reason you think NIU should continue to over achieve. Maybe being in the MAC? That is a logical explanation. Only Mac school in Illinois? Possible. Cool mascot? Definitely. I'd love to hear some valid reasons.

Because they beat Nebraska this year! (Never mind they finished 4-8 and only beat Rutgers, Illinois, and barely edged past Purdue).

NIU is not a top G5 school right now. If you watch them play and believe that, you're on crack. The MAC was abysmal this year. That's the only reason Carey managed to go 8-4, so its funny to watch people thump their chests over how that and a win over a pitiful Nebraska team is a measurement of "improvement." Carey will get wrecked in yet another bowl game against another team with a winning record, book it.

(11-26-2017 01:13 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Squirrel agree. We are no where near a Boise or those others, we do not have the resources to consistently compete at that level. Fan base, resources $$$, .... What we accomplish is "Done the hard way"

And with all the midweek games continuing, the fan base and donors will erode even more, year by year.

(11-26-2017 11:09 AM)7 Wrote:  And to say NIU was set up to be the next Boise State isn't living in reality. There isn't another Boise State. Hawaii, UCF, and WMU all made NY6 Bowls and took immediate steps backwards. Fresno State and Kent State, the two teams NIU was fighting with for BCS Births took huge steps backwards. There's only 1 Boise State.

Hell, people are talking about how disappointing NIU has only won 1 MAC Championship since Doeren left. Boise State has only won 1 conference championship since 2012 too (although they could win their 2nd on Saturday).

If your expectations are for NIU to be Boise State in their prime every single year, you are living in a delusional world. Boise State isn't even Boise State every single year.

NIU has taken has absolutely taken a step backwards since the Lynch days. It's reality. It was always going to happen. If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level. That is never going to happen on a consistent basis. Winning 8+ games like Carey has done 2 of the last 3 years is a totally acceptable season.

Be in competition for the MAC West and go to a bowl game every year, that should be the goal. We aren't Ohio State. This is a school with no fan base and even less money. Carey's been here 5 years, been to the conference title game 3 times, won it once, was in contention for it on the final day of the year this year, and will have gone to 4 bowls. He's nowhere near the hot seat nor should he be. If that's not good enough for you, you are living in a fantasy world.

Your lack of reading comprehension shows up again. No one in this thread has said that NIU was set up to be the next Boise.

But putting words in people’s mouth in order to give your opinion has never stopped you before.

“If your expectation is to win 10+ games every year and be in the conversation for a NY6 Bowl, you need to change your expectation level.”

Would you mind quoting someone has said expectations should be 10+ games every year and in conversation for a NY6 Bowl?

“We aren't Ohio State”

Would you mind quoting someone who has “Ohio State”-like expectations?

You have a knack for creating these false arguments that no one says.

(11-26-2017 11:02 AM)7 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 10:07 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 10:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 12:27 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  

(11-25-2017 11:52 PM)thehappyhuskie Wrote:  that still brings up another two questions, for all the Carey haters, how does his win/losses stack up against other NIU coaches?

How about other MAC coaches? My guess is that most MAC coaches who have moved on up have the same percentages against other MAC schools/MAC losing schools/FCS schools, etc.

Would you say Carey has been a success by only winning 1 conference title in the 5 years (and 0 Bowls) since the Orange Bowl?”

It would be unfair not to mention his Big Ten record, but as this thread shows it’s not as impressive when you take it into context.

As far as wins/losses, we can beat the Ball St’s of the world until the cows come home but first and foremost his success should be measured by winning conference titles.

We shouldn’t compare Carey to past NIU/current/past MAC coaches, we were in prime position to turn a corner, to become Boise St (Midwest Edition). We should have won mutiple MAC titles, competing for them isn’t good enough when you have tasted the Orange Bowl and were only one (poorly coached) game away from going to the Fiesta Bowl.

I don’t think my expectations are Alabama-esque. I said 2 MAC championships, plus sprinkle a bowl win here and there would be acceptable. Of course there’s going to be down years, of course there’s going to be injuries. 1 in 5 still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

An argument I have seen is that the talent level isn’t up to par. It’s Carey’s job to recruit and he hasn’t been getting players that are good enough to win the MAC more often that he has been doing. That talent level/QB situation is a direct reflection on Carey.

Next year is shaping up to be a big year. The non-conference slate is brutal and I don’t think a reasonable person would hold it against Carey if they struggled. As far as conference season, they have to win the MAC, competing isn’t good enough anymore. Just win baby.

We should compare Carey to recent coaches who took over Mac teams in their prime. Like Dan Enos in 2010 who took a MACC 12-2 team to 3-9. Or in 2011 when Don Treadwell took a MACC 10-4 Miami team to a record of 4-8. Then in 2016 there's Mike Jinks and the job he did taking a MACC 10-4 BG squad down to 4-8. Let's not forget the still fresh job Tim Lester did. He Took the 13-1, next Boise, Broncos from 13-1 to 6-6.

Except WMU lost most of its best players including a four year starting QB and first round draft pick receiver and CMU lost Dan Lefevour and Antonio Brown among others. Carey got to keep Jordan Lynch and an all star cast from the Orange Bowl.

Did Carey like die after that or did they not win 10 games and the conference the year after Lynch left?

No, he benefited from a loaded team and then completely imploded when it mattered most. Getting blown out against BG and then laying a complete egg against Utah State. In typical Carey postseason fashion.

(11-26-2017 12:06 PM)7 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 12:00 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:  NIU is not in the top 10 this year. UCF,USF,Memphis,Boise,Fresno, SDSU, Houston, FAU, Troy and Toledo all would beat NIU. I'd throw in that Ohio and north Texas, navy, would beat us this year too and CMU did, who has the same record as NIU.

I did say top 5 too as those are the schools who are typically getting votes for top 25, not necessarily in the top 25 but in the discussion. Only way to do that is to win some non conf games.

You said programs, not teams.

1 year a program does not make.

It's been two straight years we haven't even been a top 10 G5 program. Even in our top years Carey still gets his behind handed to him in the postseason.

Lots of coaching positions open, maybe they'll look at Carey's record vs B10 teams or overall record and snatch him up.

(11-26-2017 08:07 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  Lots of coaching positions open, maybe they'll look at Carey's record vs B10 teams or overall record and snatch him up.

I’m done with wishing Carey would be gone. If he gets hired away I will be happy for him. This team doesn’t have the right pieces for any coach to come in and win right away. If Carey leaves, I’m guessing there are a couple bad seasons ahead of us. I’m thankful for the consistency and having a loyal coach.

NIU doesnt have the money or the reason to fire Carey.

(11-26-2017 08:15 PM)timxlydon Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:07 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  Lots of coaching positions open, maybe they'll look at Carey's record vs B10 teams or overall record and snatch him up.

I’m done with wishing Carey would be gone. If he gets hired away I will be happy for him. This team doesn’t have the right pieces for any coach to come in and win right away. If Carey leaves, I’m guessing there are a couple bad seasons ahead of us. I’m thankful for the consistency and having a loyal coach.

Loyal coach? Only loyal if a bigger program doesn't want him. Novak was the last loyal coach because he decided to retire here.

(11-26-2017 08:21 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:15 PM)timxlydon Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:07 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  Lots of coaching positions open, maybe they'll look at Carey's record vs B10 teams or overall record and snatch him up.

I’m done with wishing Carey would be gone. If he gets hired away I will be happy for him. This team doesn’t have the right pieces for any coach to come in and win right away. If Carey leaves, I’m guessing there are a couple bad seasons ahead of us. I’m thankful for the consistency and having a loyal coach.

Loyal coach? Only loyal if a bigger program doesn't want him. Novak was the last loyal coach because he decided to retire here.

Did any team ever try to hire Novak away? Also, he was super old, so retiring made sense and the admin wouldn’t have had to fire him which they would have done.

(11-26-2017 08:22 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:21 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:15 PM)timxlydon Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:07 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  Lots of coaching positions open, maybe they'll look at Carey's record vs B10 teams or overall record and snatch him up.

I’m done with wishing Carey would be gone. If he gets hired away I will be happy for him. This team doesn’t have the right pieces for any coach to come in and win right away. If Carey leaves, I’m guessing there are a couple bad seasons ahead of us. I’m thankful for the consistency and having a loyal coach.

Loyal coach? Only loyal if a bigger program doesn't want him. Novak was the last loyal coach because he decided to retire here.

Did any team ever try to hire Novak away? Also, he was super old, so retiring made sense and the admin wouldn’t have had to fire him which they would have done.

They stayed with him during 20 something game losing streak. Why would they have to fire him? I know he was older, that's why he said he wanted to retire at NIU.

(11-26-2017 08:30 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:22 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:21 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:15 PM)timxlydon Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:07 PM)NIU17 Wrote:  Lots of coaching positions open, maybe they'll look at Carey's record vs B10 teams or overall record and snatch him up.

I’m done with wishing Carey would be gone. If he gets hired away I will be happy for him. This team doesn’t have the right pieces for any coach to come in and win right away. If Carey leaves, I’m guessing there are a couple bad seasons ahead of us. I’m thankful for the consistency and having a loyal coach.

Loyal coach? Only loyal if a bigger program doesn't want him. Novak was the last loyal coach because he decided to retire here.

Did any team ever try to hire Novak away? Also, he was super old, so retiring made sense and the admin wouldn’t have had to fire him which they would have done.

They stayed with him during 20 something game losing streak. Why would they have to fire him? I know he was older, that's why he said he wanted to retire at NIU.

7-5
7-6
2-10

Those were his last three years. He wasn’t going to be sticking around in 2008, retire or not. Can you imagine if Carey had this record lol, this board would catch on fire.

(11-24-2017 09:32 PM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  I also want to mention (as I have before), that Carey should be judged first and foremost on how many conference titles he wins. 1 conference title in 5 seasons is a major disappointment. If you took a poll of this place 5 years ago and ask “How many would conference titles will NIU win in the next 5 years?” 90%+ would have said over 1.

5- too unrealistic
4- would have been phenomenal
3- would have been great
2- would have been acceptable
1- disappointing
0- unacceptable

And don’t get me started on the bowl record.

Blame also has to be placed on STF for extending his contract a few years ago. That can't be overlooked.