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(11-24-2017 09:20 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Our 2 QBs got 6 games each of experience, and our WRs got gobs of PT. All are returning. I don’t expect Terrell/Davis type rock stars, but our coaches don’t get a pass on “developing a new, green passing game” next season.

Absolutely agree. We should have some good competition at QB in the spring, Wassink will not get the nod by default. Goddard needs to feel he's in the mix for the starting job and even Mussat needs to know he can toss his hat in the ring. That slot is open for competition.

(11-24-2017 08:50 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  This season gets a pass, as hard as that is.

Next year, none or few injuries (if we get over a dozen again, a full investigation needs to happen). Next year, Fleck is further in the rear-view mirror and any seniors who allegedly mailed it in this season will have graduated. Next year, more of “Lester’s guys” in the mix who chose his personality and philosophy.

An 8-4 or better season, then 2017 is written off as a mulligan. Something like 5-7/6-6, then we can seriously entertain the notion of Lester being a flop hire.

100% correct.

(11-24-2017 09:23 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 09:20 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Our 2 QBs got 6 games each of experience, and our WRs got gobs of PT. All are returning. I don’t expect Terrell/Davis type rock stars, but our coaches don’t get a pass on “developing a new, green passing game” next season.

Absolutely agree. We should have some good competition at QB in the spring, Wassink will not get the nod by default. Goddard needs to feel he's in the mix for the starting job and even Mussat needs to know he can toss his hat in the ring. That slot is open for competition.

There is another freshman qb who hasn't been discussed much, but likely has as much upside as any of them; Chris Riddle. Not sure why nobody has talked about him. His father posted here a few times. I assume he was redshirted this year. He may be the QB of our future; who knows. He's a good sized kid I think.

Dad, you still out there? How about an update on the kids first year.

In my mind, Goddard played himself out of a starting spot for next year. He was an inaccurate passer, and although he has probably good running ability, he showed very poor running instincts. Mostly though, he was a horrendous decision maker under any pressure at all, and seemed to freeze. I understand he was a freshman, but I question whether you can teach instincts, and he didn't improve much over the course of games he played.

(11-26-2017 03:26 PM)brovol Wrote:  In my mind, Goddard played himself out of a starting spot for next year. He was an inaccurate passer, and although he has probably good running ability, he showed very poor running instincts. Mostly though, he was a horrendous decision maker under any pressure at all, and seemed to freeze. I understand he was a freshman, but I question whether you can teach instincts, and he didn't improve much over the course of games he played.

He did seem to freeze, which worries me more than the decision making. He can learn to make the right decisions. It's harder to learn how to eliminate the fear.

In fairness to Goddard, he didn't get the best protection from our OL this season. We may have a good run blocking line, they are not especially the best pass blocking line. A QB needs 4-5 seconds to set up, find a receiver and throw a pass.

I’m not ready to give up on Goddard this early, but I think it’s still Wassink’s job to lose next year.

(11-26-2017 04:08 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  In fairness to Goddard, he didn't get the best protection from our OL this season. We may have a good run blocking line, they are not especially the best pass blocking line. A QB needs 4-5 seconds to set up, find a receiver and throw a pass.

4-5 seconds is a VERY long time for a QB. Most don't get anywhere near that amount of time in the pocket.

Decisions need to be made within the first 2.5 seconds. They start pre-snap with reads and protection adjustments. If that ball isn't gone by 3 seconds, bad things will happen.

(11-26-2017 04:54 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 04:08 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  In fairness to Goddard, he didn't get the best protection from our OL this season. We may have a good run blocking line, they are not especially the best pass blocking line. A QB needs 4-5 seconds to set up, find a receiver and throw a pass.

4-5 seconds is a VERY long time for a QB. Most don't get anywhere near that amount of time in the pocket.

Decisions need to be made within the first 2.5 seconds. They start pre-snap with reads and protection adjustments. If that ball isn't gone by 3 seconds, bad things will happen.

Your 3 second time span assumes the primary receiver is open and the QB doesn't have to look at other options. That only happens 50% of the time, IMO.

Regardless, the fact remains our QB's weren't getting enough time to make decisions and get passes off. Whether that's 3 seconds or 4 we were rushed on most downs. Our OL coach has a lot to work on in the off season.

(11-26-2017 11:23 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 04:54 PM)broncofan1 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 04:08 PM)BroncoPhilly Wrote:  In fairness to Goddard, he didn't get the best protection from our OL this season. We may have a good run blocking line, they are not especially the best pass blocking line. A QB needs 4-5 seconds to set up, find a receiver and throw a pass.

4-5 seconds is a VERY long time for a QB. Most don't get anywhere near that amount of time in the pocket.

Decisions need to be made within the first 2.5 seconds. They start pre-snap with reads and protection adjustments. If that ball isn't gone by 3 seconds, bad things will happen.

Your 3 second time span assumes the primary receiver is open and the QB doesn't have to look at other options. That only happens 50% of the time, IMO.

Regardless, the fact remains our QB's weren't getting enough time to make decisions and get passes off. Whether that's 3 seconds or 4 we were rushed on most downs. Our OL coach has a lot to work on in the off season.

This season it seemed like Wassink and Goddard both had trouble with the timing of their reads and would lock on to the #1 option... If you go back and look at some of the Goddard games, many of his "terrible" throws were thrown intentionally away from his main target because he rode the read too long and had to make it look like he was trying to hit the guy without putting the ball in harms way... This is hopefully something that speeds up for both of these guys.

The talent was there to beat both Michigan State and Central Michigan...particularly Central Michigan.

Didn't happen.

It was a transition year. Injuries were definitely a factor, but not the only one.

Hopefully, many lessons were learned from the many mistakes and that will be reflected next fall.

I don't think injuries can be an excuse for Akron. I think without injuries we would have beat CMU, and probably NIU. Should have been 8-4. I don't give Lester a mulligan for this season because these weren't his players anyways, except for Goddard who played atrocious.

Akron, CMU, and NIU were all winnable in my opinion.

Not sure about Michigan State. Without Darius, it's 28-0.

(11-27-2017 11:17 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Akron, CMU, and NIU were all winnable in my opinion.

Not sure about Michigan State. Without Darius, it's 28-0.

But WMU had Darius. Can't deny what he did or claim it was a "fluke." He was the best player on the field for either team that day. And the WMU offense was capable to scoring 14 on an MSU D with outside linebackers that can't cover in the flat or tackle well in open space. Brian Kelly, Pat Fitzgerald and Urban Meyer sure figured it out.

Lessons learned.

(11-27-2017 11:30 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 11:17 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Akron, CMU, and NIU were all winnable in my opinion.

Not sure about Michigan State. Without Darius, it's 28-0.

But WMU had Darius. Can't deny what he did or claim it was a "fluke." He was the best player on the field for either team that day. And the WMU offense was capable to scoring 14 on an MSU D with outside linebackers that can't cover in the flat or tackle well in open space. Brian Kelly, Pat Fitzgerald and Urban Meyer sure figured it out.

Lessons learned.

I guess what I’m saying is that, taking absolutely nothing away from Darius, he was the only player that kept us in the game. Unlike the CMU, Akron, and NIU games... I didn’t see anything against MSU that told me we had a shot to win that game at any point. Citing 3 of the best coaches in the country as being able to “figure it out” doesn’t make that game any more winnable. I’d hardly put Lester on the same plane as those guys and say it’s a game we “should’ve” won.

(11-27-2017 11:50 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 11:30 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 11:17 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  Akron, CMU, and NIU were all winnable in my opinion.

Not sure about Michigan State. Without Darius, it's 28-0.

But WMU had Darius. Can't deny what he did or claim it was a "fluke." He was the best player on the field for either team that day. And the WMU offense was capable to scoring 14 on an MSU D with outside linebackers that can't cover in the flat or tackle well in open space. Brian Kelly, Pat Fitzgerald and Urban Meyer sure figured it out.

Lessons learned.

I guess what I’m saying is that, taking absolutely nothing away from Darius, he was the only player that kept us in the game. Unlike the CMU, Akron, and NIU games... I didn’t see anything against MSU that told me we had a shot to win that game at any point. Citing 3 of the best coaches in the country as being able to “figure it out” doesn’t make that game any more winnable. I’d hardly put Lester on the same plane as those guys and say it’s a game we “should’ve” won.

When the offense scores 24 on a tougher USC team the previous Saturday, it IS capable of scoring 14 against Sparty given the talent available and healthy at that time. Of course, KB's bad-bad decision to move the game up one week per MSU's request (demand?) hurt the team, too.

I didn't think the pass protection was bad at all, it was a little tougher with Goddard, but they were sending blitzers to flush him out, and rightly so. Wassink had good pocket presence for a first year starter, the problem was a problem of inconsistency throughout the process, either it was a bad read, bad pass, bad route, or bad catch.

Goddard had very little presence unless it was a do-or-die pass. He had more time than it appeared. If you look at Goddard's HS highlights, it looks like he never had good pass blocking and was used to rolling out to avoid pressure instead of stepping up in the pocket. It takes time to develop that.

(11-27-2017 12:03 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  I didn't think the pass protection was bad at all, it was a little tougher with Goddard, but they were sending blitzers to flush him out, and rightly so. Wassink had good pocket presence for a first year starter, the problem was a problem of inconsistency throughout the process, either it was a bad read, bad pass, bad route, or bad catch.

Goddard had very little presence unless it was a do-or-die pass. He had more time than it appeared. If you look at Goddard's HS highlights, it looks like he never had good pass blocking and was used to rolling out to avoid pressure instead of stepping up in the pocket. It takes time to develop that.

I agree. The pass protection wasn't bad at all. Here is the thing that most people don't acknowledge. QB's are as big a part of pass protection as the line. One is pre snap reads. Good QB's read pre snap where the pressure may come from and either A, check to a play to get rid of the ball quickly, or B, have an idea of which way they may need to move to buy an extra second. Two, after the snap, you have to either be able to read defenses quickly, or move up or around the pocket to help your linemen out. People say the line sucks when a sack happens, but half the time, it's probably the QB's fault.