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Game Day: @Indiana
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EAGLE KING Offline
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Post: #61
Game Day: @Indiana
More talent on the team, same stand around and watch offense.


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11-24-2017 06:16 PM
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EAGLE KING Offline
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Post: #62
Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 06:15 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 06:12 PM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 06:11 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  This is the type of game where a switch to man-to-man defense would help.


If only....if only


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Kind of pisses me off that we can see it but a coach cannot. Or is too stubborn to admit it.


Yup, every coach has to adapt to be successful. Ours chooses not to.


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11-24-2017 06:17 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 06:16 PM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  More talent on the team, same stand around and watch offense.


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Now THAT I agree with. We've ran some sets pretty well, but the last 5 minutes have just been "stand around and watch Jackson". So frustrating that we can't be consistent offensively.
11-24-2017 06:17 PM
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TheWoodenNickle Online
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Post: #64
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
IU shoots 12-21 on 3 pointers. That's the story of the game and that's on Murphy.
11-24-2017 06:27 PM
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EAGLE KING Offline
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Post: #65
Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 06:27 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  IU shoots 12-21 on 3 pointers. That's the story of the game and that's on Murphy.


Yup it’s what I’ve said was the key all week.


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11-24-2017 06:27 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
Reality sets in we are still a work in process
11-24-2017 06:29 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
Good first half. Awful second half. Still remains to be seen how good this team is. Murphy can't keep playing just 7 guys major minutes. The OOC games are there to give you a chance to figure out your depth, and we only play two guys off the bench consistently. I'd like to see McAdoo get more minutes, and we might as well see if Jones/King can play regularly. Thompson will wear down if he keeps playing this many minutes.

On to the next one. We should be competitive with USF.
11-24-2017 06:30 PM
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FrankAnderson Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
I think Indiana is better than we all initially thought too. Yes, they lost to Indiana State, but ISU had a once in a lifetime night from 3. Their only other loss was on the road to a top-25 Seton Hall.

They are a top-half B1G team, probably, and we had to go play in their arena.

All that said, not our best performance either. Offensively or defensively.
11-24-2017 06:32 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 06:32 PM)FrankAnderson Wrote:  I think Indiana is better than we all initially thought too. Yes, they lost to Indiana State, but ISU had a once in a lifetime night from 3. Their only other loss was on the road to a top-25 Seton Hall.

They are a top-half B1G team, probably, and we had to go play in their arena.

All that said, not our best performance either. Offensively or defensively.

I agree and as I indicated earlier, the foul after 14 seconds, ticky tack, on JT4, was a game changer.

A foul on JT4 after 14 seconds, is a COMPLETE game changer, as bad as playing with 2 fouls in the first half.

And, of course, the refs started evening the score AFTER the game was decided.

Seen this movie before.
11-24-2017 06:41 PM
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TheWoodenNickle Online
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Post: #70
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.
11-24-2017 06:51 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 06:51 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.

I blame the refs. Someone who was in the business told me about these MAC/B1G match-ups. The MAC has an impact big man and the refs get him early and even up the score in the 2nd half.

We really need to realize that playing in a lot of these B1G arenas have a huge impact on the refs. They are really influenced by the crowd.

It would be 100% different if this game was played before 1,000 fans in a South Carolina tourney.
11-24-2017 07:05 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 06:51 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.

Yes, we can't blame the refs although I U got some favorable calls. We gave IU too many offensive rebounds which is a disadvantage when playing a zone. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Murphy went to a man to man. IUs top outside scorer was the 6'4" shooting guard Johnson. I think Timmy Bond could have guarded him well and our two bigs against their two bigs match up well. Murphy should at least try to mix things up vs being too predictable.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2017 09:43 PM by Luckeyone.)
11-24-2017 09:22 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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RE: Game Day: @Indiana
11-24-2017 09:43 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 09:22 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 06:51 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.

Yes, we can't blame the refs although I U got some favorable calls. We gave IU too many offensive rebounds which is a disadvantage when playing a zone. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Murphy went to a man to man. IUs top outside scorer was the 6'4" shooting guard Johnson. I think Timmy Bond could have guarded him well and our two bigs against their two bigs match up well. Murphy should at least try to mix things up vs being too predictable.

04-chairshot Talking about 'talking points' which were dug out of the trash.

Once JT4 got that foul, my hopes to win the game essentially dropped like a rock.

This was exactly the WORST CASE SCENARIO for us. We might be able to survive if we were playing Ark. State or Howard, but not a B1G team.

How can one expect JT4 to play aggressive defensively for fear that he could get a second foul quickly and that would be curtains for us with him sitting out the half (we've seen that movie many times).

And why would a coach with JT4 in 'foul trouble' after 14 seconds go to a man-to-man defense which INCREASES the chances of the center collecting fouls...

Sorry, none of this makes sense to me...

If I was a conspiracy type person (and I'm not), I'd accuse the ref of calling that ticky tack foul of some nefarious behavior (e.g., agenda against JT4, being a homer for the home team, etc.).

EDIT: One thing I hate about college basketball is the 5 foul disqualification rule. It is too damn easy for teams to drive the lane and try to foul out an impact center. I'd prefer to see it be 6 fouls.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2017 10:03 PM by emu steve.)
11-24-2017 09:55 PM
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Bob Wickersham Online
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Post: #75
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 07:05 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 06:51 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.

I blame the refs. Someone who was in the business told me about these MAC/B1G match-ups. The MAC has an impact big man and the refs get him early and even up the score in the 2nd half.

We really need to realize that playing in a lot of these B1G arenas have a huge impact on the refs. They are really influenced by the crowd.

It would be 100% different if this game was played before 1,000 fans in a South Carolina tourney.
Wow! Indiana State of the Missouri Valley Conference must be really good then, you know, for beating the Hoosiers by 21 at Assembly Hall. Weird.
11-24-2017 10:07 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 10:07 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 07:05 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 06:51 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.

I blame the refs. Someone who was in the business told me about these MAC/B1G match-ups. The MAC has an impact big man and the refs get him early and even up the score in the 2nd half.

We really need to realize that playing in a lot of these B1G arenas have a huge impact on the refs. They are really influenced by the crowd.

It would be 100% different if this game was played before 1,000 fans in a South Carolina tourney.
Wow! Indiana State of the Missouri Valley Conference must be really good then, you know, for beating the Hoosiers by 21 at Assembly Hall. Weird.

Okay two lessons:

1). There is the EMU Steve theory that whenever the inferior team team makes a very high number and percentage of 3-point shots that team will beat a superior team. It is like drawing a four of a kind in poker. When you're lucky, you win. Don't expect to do again, anytime soon. Luck is luck. Not skill. Don't look for Ind. State to go dancing. Matter of fact, they haven't beaten a D-I team since beating IU.

2). And what we are discussing when an impact big man for the underdog team gets into very early foul trouble it is usually game over. This was suggested to me by someone in the business some years ago. The home team gets the call early when the game is being decided and refs 'even up' the calls in the 2nd half after the game has been decided. Refs are human (that is true). If they see they have called a disproportionate number of calls against one team, they tend to 'overcompensate' afterwards. This happens across sports.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2017 10:45 PM by emu steve.)
11-24-2017 10:43 PM
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EAGLE KING Offline
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Post: #77
Game Day: @Indiana
(11-24-2017 09:55 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 09:22 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  
(11-24-2017 06:51 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  Although they are usually favor the big $ school, I refuse to blame the refs in this game. This game is on Murphy. Too stubborn to change his defense when necessary.

Yes, we can't blame the refs although I U got some favorable calls. We gave IU too many offensive rebounds which is a disadvantage when playing a zone. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Murphy went to a man to man. IUs top outside scorer was the 6'4" shooting guard Johnson. I think Timmy Bond could have guarded him well and our two bigs against their two bigs match up well. Murphy should at least try to mix things up vs being too predictable.

04-chairshot Talking about 'talking points' which were dug out of the trash.

Once JT4 got that foul, my hopes to win the game essentially dropped like a rock.

This was exactly the WORST CASE SCENARIO for us. We might be able to survive if we were playing Ark. State or Howard, but not a B1G team.

How can one expect JT4 to play aggressive defensively for fear that he could get a second foul quickly and that would be curtains for us with him sitting out the half (we've seen that movie many times).

And why would a coach with JT4 in 'foul trouble' after 14 seconds go to a man-to-man defense which INCREASES the chances of the center collecting fouls...

Sorry, none of this makes sense to me...

If I was a conspiracy type person (and I'm not), I'd accuse the ref of calling that ticky tack foul of some nefarious behavior (e.g., agenda against JT4, being a homer for the home team, etc.).

EDIT: One thing I hate about college basketball is the 5 foul disqualification rule. It is too damn easy for teams to drive the lane and try to foul out an impact center. I'd prefer to see it be 6 fouls.


Steve I think you are over simplifying this loss. Did JT getting an early foul play a role in the loss, yes. Was it the only reason or biggest, no.

The point about playing Man to Man which continues to come up during Murphy’s tenure is because there are constantly examples throughout our seasons where a switch in defense in game would help our chances. They had smaller guards knocking down 3s. We switch to some Man to Man and use our length and height to our advantage and we can probably take away many of those 3s. Especially considering most of the 3s were open looks without a hand in their face (an obvious flaw in zones).

I see the benefits of playing a Zone and I see the benefits of playing Man to Man. Each opponent brings different challenges and matchups. Good coaches can see this in game and make adjustments. I don’t want to bash Murphy but in his 7 years I do not see him making enough changes in game based on opponents. This goes for both sides of the ball. There is a reason why most teams play Man to Man and mix in a zone or some sort of trap when appropriate or needed.

With all of that, our talent alone will win us ballgames this year, with or without a good scheme or offensive sets. But we will only be able to guess where we could go with more in game adjustments and offensive creativity.


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(This post was last modified: 11-24-2017 11:14 PM by EAGLE KING.)
11-24-2017 11:12 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
I mean, we scored 67 points on the road against a good Big Ten opponent. That will hardly ever be enough to win in today's ticky tack NCAA. The zone is an easy culprit to blame, but our offense (or lack thereof) was far more detrimental. That will be Murphy's downfall, not the defense.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2017 12:50 AM by EagleSam.)
11-25-2017 12:49 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
RE: JT4's early foul. This is a big example of how circumstances can work against us.

OTOH, Steibeling was effective on the keepers vs. BG. Why? Wasn't the biggest reason is that NO one had every seen him run. Period. How do you defend a QB, esp. who has some running ability which no one has seen before? Steibeling is much niftier than Roback (at least a gimpy Roback).

Does anyone think Steibeling could pull those runs off next week (if the season continued)? Maybe yes, but maybe NO. I would think the defenses would gear up to stop that run and concentrate less on stopping his passing which is very much a 'work in progress.'
11-25-2017 06:21 AM
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EMUAARON Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Game Day: @Indiana
after watching a recording of the game today, i think the story was significantly worse defense in the second half. Minnie's first half was great - he hit threes, was aggressive going to the basket, and played spirited defense. i didn't see the same level of intensity from him in the second half. the defense as a whole looked bad in the second half, and i think it was partially due to missing shots (harder to get back and get set up on D), partially not hustling back on D and less pep from the players.

i also saw a new hole in our defense during the second half. we're all used to teams making passes to a guy on the baseline 6-7 feet from the hoop. When indiana would load the strong side, there was a similar gap that they took advantage of at the mid-block. they were excellent at making short passes to ping pong the ball from top of the key to free-throw extended three to mid-block to low baseline. and it wasn't just from cutting, they had guys set up in those places.

but also, Indiana looked good. they aren't a bunch of scrubs or anything. no shame in losing to them, but i wish we would have seen a full game just like the first half.
11-26-2017 12:47 AM
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