(11-24-2017 08:26 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 07:38 AM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 10:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 05:35 PM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 02:55 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  I've been saying over over and over again, the AAC has build itself into one solid strong stout conference.

Many AAC programs continue to rack victories over blue blod schools and yet the AAC isnt good enough, absolutely total BS.

This league deserves better bowls and a better tv $$$ deal, period.

Define the word "many" and the term "rack up." Not trying to split hairs, but the AAC is 4-14 against the P5 this year, and not one of those wins is over a team with a winning record.

Wrong yet again. Arizona is 7-4. That’s a “winning record” I believe.

Oh sorry. One.

I'm not making outlandish statements here. Houston has some P5 wins, as does Memphis. Navy has thebulset over ND. What other 'blue bloods' victories have been racked up.

For the record, I really like the Houston program, and think Major is going to do well there. However, manybhwre seemnto think the sky is falling regarding the program. What is it?

I just think a lot of people (self included) bought into the Kyle Allen hype. We thought it'd be a seamless transition from Ward to Allen- which in hindsight is pretty dumb. Same thing happened after Keenum, except it was injuries that derailed our starting QB that year rather than general ineptitude. We still lost some games this year that we probably shouldn't have but I've just decided to consider it a transition year. Applewhite will be back next year and hopefully with the QB issue solved the team can begin to progress.

Switching to King looks to be a great decision. He seems to be a Ward clone

(11-24-2017 09:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 09:36 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 06:46 AM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 10:19 PM)st932253 Wrote:  The point should be made that in 2017 we are all still paying for Judy Genshaft destroying the Big East.

How did the USF president destroy the Big East? Adding schools, and the empty promise of an increased TV contract killed the Big East. Why is Judy blamed?

ESPN had a deal in place with the Big East at 10 mil/ per team, contingent on the league adding TCU and UCF as its ninth and tenth members. Genshaft did everything she could to block the deal, not wanting UCF to be on the same level as USF conference-wise. Enough ADs sided with her (killing the tv deal) which pissed off schools like Pitt enough to leave for greener pastures.

Let's accept that USF and Genschaft blocked UCF. But having UCF in the league wouldn't have done squat to prevent what happened in 2011. The ACC was terrified of an SEC raid (the SEC was making I think $17M per school, the ACC $12M). The Big 12, after losing NEbraska and Colorado, actually floated the ridiculous idea of raiding for Arkansas, Pitt, Notre Dame and Air Force. Talk was rampant of 4 16 team superconferences, and nobody thought the Big EAst would be one of them.

The ACC offered Pitt and Syracuse with a 24 hour response window, with the threat that they would move on to other Big East schools--so if not Pitt and/or Syracuse, then UConn and/or Rutgers, and if not them than WVU. (Can't google up a source, sorry.)

Do you really think Pitt's going to say "Look Swofford, we got the UCF Golden Knights now. You can take your offer and shove it"?

As for turning down the media deal, "Pitt and Georgetown led the charge against the media deal." http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...landscape. There was a vote to continue negotiating on the proposal with (if I recall correctly--the article I'm linking indicates otherwise) 12 in favor, 4 opposed including Pitt and Georgetown. (Georgetown is a key player, because Georgetown's chairman of the Board of Directors is and was former NFL Commissioner PAul Tagliabue.) Then the PAC-12 deal was signed, and the presidents voted UNANIMOUSLY to deep-six the ESPN offer and go on the open market in 2012.

(11-23-2017 12:52 PM)FonzKnight Wrote:  Nope Boise was never in the discussion until after schools started defecting. The TCU/UCF deal would’ve kept the old Big East together and preempted all of it. Alas.

The TCU/UCF deal would have preempted nothing. If the ACC couldn't keep MAryland from jumping to the Big 10, nothing was going to keep Pitt and Syracuse from jumping to the ACC.

johnbragg, please don't let reason get in the way of UCF's persecution complex...

USFFan

(11-24-2017 10:39 AM)usffan Wrote:  johnbragg, please don't let reason get in the way of UCF's persecution complex...

USFFan

It's strange, because I was just thinking about this thread while I finished hanging up the Christmas lights. UCF fans have this relentless focus on things that didn't happen, and even if they did happen wouldn't have changed the situation today the way they wish it would.

MEanwhile, if I were from Orlando/UCF and wanted to talk smack at Tampa/USF, you've got Disney World and Cape Canaveral and they've got--reasonably convenient highway access to Orlando. (And the Gulf of Mexico, to be fair--but who wants to be fair if you're trash-talking a rival?)

(11-24-2017 10:51 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 10:39 AM)usffan Wrote:  johnbragg, please don't let reason get in the way of UCF's persecution complex...

USFFan

It's strange, because I was just thinking about this thread while I finished hanging up the Christmas lights. UCF fans have this relentless focus on things that didn't happen, and even if they did happen wouldn't have changed the situation today the way they wish it would.

MEanwhile, if I were from Orlando/UCF and wanted to talk smack at Tampa/USF, you've got Disney World and Cape Canaveral and they've got--reasonably convenient highway access to Orlando. (And the Gulf of Mexico, to be fair--but who wants to be fair if you're trash-talking a rival?)

Most are convinced that every bad thing that has ever happened to them is the direct fault of Jim Leavitt and/or Judy Genshaft. Neither one was involved in the virtual bankruptcy of their program that predates USF even starting football, the cell phone scandal that brought the FBI to campus and cost Gene McDowell his job, their turning down a football invite to C-USA when the conference formed (nevermind that Genshaft was the president when that happened) - forcing them to eventually join the MAC and fall flat of their predictions of dominating that conference, their holding a press conference to announce a bowl bid that never materialized, killing Ereck Plancher, their hiring of Keith Tribble or the entire Ken Caldwell fiasco that followed resulting in Tribble being forced out. But remember, everything that ails UCF is the fault of USF.

I guess in this era of #FAKENEWS, it kind of fits.

USFFan

Mississippi State got another quality loss that will help them move up next week.

Michigan State will blow past UCF next week with a win over B1G power Rutgers.

(11-24-2017 09:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 09:36 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 06:46 AM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 10:19 PM)st932253 Wrote:  The point should be made that in 2017 we are all still paying for Judy Genshaft destroying the Big East.

How did the USF president destroy the Big East? Adding schools, and the empty promise of an increased TV contract killed the Big East. Why is Judy blamed?

ESPN had a deal in place with the Big East at 10 mil/ per team, contingent on the league adding TCU and UCF as its ninth and tenth members. Genshaft did everything she could to block the deal, not wanting UCF to be on the same level as USF conference-wise. Enough ADs sided with her (killing the tv deal) which pissed off schools like Pitt enough to leave for greener pastures.

Let's accept that USF and Genschaft blocked UCF. But having UCF in the league wouldn't have done squat to prevent what happened in 2011. The ACC was terrified of an SEC raid (the SEC was making I think $17M per school, the ACC $12M). The Big 12, after losing NEbraska and Colorado, actually floated the ridiculous idea of raiding for Arkansas, Pitt, Notre Dame and Air Force. Talk was rampant of 4 16 team superconferences, and nobody thought the Big EAst would be one of them.

The ACC offered Pitt and Syracuse with a 24 hour response window, with the threat that they would move on to other Big East schools--so if not Pitt and/or Syracuse, then UConn and/or Rutgers, and if not them than WVU. (Can't google up a source, sorry.)

Do you really think Pitt's going to say "Look Swofford, we got the UCF Golden Knights now. You can take your offer and shove it"?

As for turning down the media deal, "Pitt and Georgetown led the charge against the media deal." http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...landscape. There was a vote to continue negotiating on the proposal with (if I recall correctly--the article I'm linking indicates otherwise) 12 in favor, 4 opposed including Pitt and Georgetown. (Georgetown is a key player, because Georgetown's chairman of the Board of Directors is and was former NFL Commissioner PAul Tagliabue.) Then the PAC-12 deal was signed, and the presidents voted UNANIMOUSLY to deep-six the ESPN offer and go on the open market in 2012.

(11-23-2017 12:52 PM)FonzKnight Wrote:  Nope Boise was never in the discussion until after schools started defecting. The TCU/UCF deal would’ve kept the old Big East together and preempted all of it. Alas.

The TCU/UCF deal would have preempted nothing. If the ACC couldn't keep MAryland from jumping to the Big 10, nothing was going to keep Pitt and Syracuse from jumping to the ACC.

The TV deal would have kept the Big East as a ‘power’ conference. ESPNs investment both moniterily and exposure-wise laid out in the deal wouldve seen to that. Sure, Syracuse and Pitt might still leave, but at the least WV is staying and ESPN (let’s not pretend that don’t essentially own college football now) has incentive to get behind the conference.

Look, it’s okay that USF helped kill off the old Big East. It was extremely unstable to begin with, and it could’ve died a hundred different ways. Let’s just not pretend that history played out differently than it did.

(11-24-2017 11:14 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Mississippi State got another quality loss that will help them move up next week.

No, it was the enthusiasm. They were not "motivated" properly since Ole Miss was not the powerful team that they are used to playing.

(11-24-2017 11:38 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 09:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 09:36 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 06:46 AM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 10:19 PM)st932253 Wrote:  The point should be made that in 2017 we are all still paying for Judy Genshaft destroying the Big East.

How did the USF president destroy the Big East? Adding schools, and the empty promise of an increased TV contract killed the Big East. Why is Judy blamed?

ESPN had a deal in place with the Big East at 10 mil/ per team, contingent on the league adding TCU and UCF as its ninth and tenth members. Genshaft did everything she could to block the deal, not wanting UCF to be on the same level as USF conference-wise. Enough ADs sided with her (killing the tv deal) which pissed off schools like Pitt enough to leave for greener pastures.

Let's accept that USF and Genschaft blocked UCF. But having UCF in the league wouldn't have done squat to prevent what happened in 2011. The ACC was terrified of an SEC raid (the SEC was making I think $17M per school, the ACC $12M). The Big 12, after losing NEbraska and Colorado, actually floated the ridiculous idea of raiding for Arkansas, Pitt, Notre Dame and Air Force. Talk was rampant of 4 16 team superconferences, and nobody thought the Big EAst would be one of them.

The ACC offered Pitt and Syracuse with a 24 hour response window, with the threat that they would move on to other Big East schools--so if not Pitt and/or Syracuse, then UConn and/or Rutgers, and if not them than WVU. (Can't google up a source, sorry.)

Do you really think Pitt's going to say "Look Swofford, we got the UCF Golden Knights now. You can take your offer and shove it"?

As for turning down the media deal, "Pitt and Georgetown led the charge against the media deal." http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...landscape. There was a vote to continue negotiating on the proposal with (if I recall correctly--the article I'm linking indicates otherwise) 12 in favor, 4 opposed including Pitt and Georgetown. (Georgetown is a key player, because Georgetown's chairman of the Board of Directors is and was former NFL Commissioner PAul Tagliabue.) Then the PAC-12 deal was signed, and the presidents voted UNANIMOUSLY to deep-six the ESPN offer and go on the open market in 2012.

(11-23-2017 12:52 PM)FonzKnight Wrote:  Nope Boise was never in the discussion until after schools started defecting. The TCU/UCF deal would’ve kept the old Big East together and preempted all of it. Alas.

The TCU/UCF deal would have preempted nothing. If the ACC couldn't keep MAryland from jumping to the Big 10, nothing was going to keep Pitt and Syracuse from jumping to the ACC.

The TV deal would have kept the Big East as a ‘power’ conference. ESPNs investment both moniterily and exposure-wise laid out in the deal wouldve seen to that. Sure, Syracuse and Pitt might still leave, but at the least WV is staying and ESPN (let’s not pretend that don’t essentially own college football now) has incentive to get behind the conference.

Look, it’s okay that USF helped kill off the old Big East. It was extremely unstable to begin with, and it could’ve died a hundred different ways. Let’s just not pretend that history played out differently than it did.

How much was WVU given as their share for the first 5-10 years of the contract? Are they full share? I wonder if the added travel costs would have negated any initial bump over the 10 million the Big East would have gotten. I honestly don't know the answer and am stuck at work so don't have the time to look it up.

(11-24-2017 11:38 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  The TV deal would have kept the Big East as a ‘power’ conference.

But what killed the TV deal wasn't whether or not USF rooster-blocked UCF or not. It was the fact that, while the Big East was negotiating with ESPN (exclusively) over a deal in the neighborhood of $150M/year, the PAC-12 deal (open market NBC/ESPN/Fox) came in at $250M/year.

Quote:Look, it’s okay that USF helped kill off the old Big East. It was extremely unstable to begin with, and it could’ve died a hundred different ways. Let’s just not pretend that history played out differently than it did.

You're focusing on USF. You're missing that, after the PAC deal was signed, the vote went from 12-4 to pursue the ESPN deal, to 16-0 to tell ESPN to pound sand and test the open market.

(11-24-2017 12:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 11:38 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  The TV deal would have kept the Big East as a ‘power’ conference.

But what killed the TV deal wasn't whether or not USF rooster-blocked UCF or not. It was the fact that, while the Big East was negotiating with ESPN (exclusively) over a deal in the neighborhood of $150M/year, the PAC-12 deal (open market NBC/ESPN/Fox) came in at $250M/year.

Quote:Look, it’s okay that USF helped kill off the old Big East. It was extremely unstable to begin with, and it could’ve died a hundred different ways. Let’s just not pretend that history played out differently than it did.

You're focusing on USF. You're missing that, after the PAC deal was signed, the vote went from 12-4 to pursue the ESPN deal, to 16-0 to tell ESPN to pound sand and test the open market.

Another interesting question was what share the C-7 would have gotten from the Big East contract that was rejected. Was it more than the $5 million or so they get now? Also, even if the C-7 left as well as the others, was their a poison pill in the proposed contract if there were defections? If not, that could have been a hefty payday for a smaller conference after the defections.

(11-24-2017 11:38 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 09:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 09:36 AM)FonzKnight Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 06:46 AM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 10:19 PM)st932253 Wrote:  The point should be made that in 2017 we are all still paying for Judy Genshaft destroying the Big East.

How did the USF president destroy the Big East? Adding schools, and the empty promise of an increased TV contract killed the Big East. Why is Judy blamed?

ESPN had a deal in place with the Big East at 10 mil/ per team, contingent on the league adding TCU and UCF as its ninth and tenth members. Genshaft did everything she could to block the deal, not wanting UCF to be on the same level as USF conference-wise. Enough ADs sided with her (killing the tv deal) which pissed off schools like Pitt enough to leave for greener pastures.

Let's accept that USF and Genschaft blocked UCF. But having UCF in the league wouldn't have done squat to prevent what happened in 2011. The ACC was terrified of an SEC raid (the SEC was making I think $17M per school, the ACC $12M). The Big 12, after losing NEbraska and Colorado, actually floated the ridiculous idea of raiding for Arkansas, Pitt, Notre Dame and Air Force. Talk was rampant of 4 16 team superconferences, and nobody thought the Big EAst would be one of them.

The ACC offered Pitt and Syracuse with a 24 hour response window, with the threat that they would move on to other Big East schools--so if not Pitt and/or Syracuse, then UConn and/or Rutgers, and if not them than WVU. (Can't google up a source, sorry.)

Do you really think Pitt's going to say "Look Swofford, we got the UCF Golden Knights now. You can take your offer and shove it"?

As for turning down the media deal, "Pitt and Georgetown led the charge against the media deal." http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...landscape. There was a vote to continue negotiating on the proposal with (if I recall correctly--the article I'm linking indicates otherwise) 12 in favor, 4 opposed including Pitt and Georgetown. (Georgetown is a key player, because Georgetown's chairman of the Board of Directors is and was former NFL Commissioner PAul Tagliabue.) Then the PAC-12 deal was signed, and the presidents voted UNANIMOUSLY to deep-six the ESPN offer and go on the open market in 2012.

(11-23-2017 12:52 PM)FonzKnight Wrote:  Nope Boise was never in the discussion until after schools started defecting. The TCU/UCF deal would’ve kept the old Big East together and preempted all of it. Alas.

The TCU/UCF deal would have preempted nothing. If the ACC couldn't keep MAryland from jumping to the Big 10, nothing was going to keep Pitt and Syracuse from jumping to the ACC.

The TV deal would have kept the Big East as a ‘power’ conference. ESPNs investment both moniterily and exposure-wise laid out in the deal wouldve seen to that. Sure, Syracuse and Pitt might still leave, but at the least WV is staying and ESPN (let’s not pretend that don’t essentially own college football now) has incentive to get behind the conference.

Look, it’s okay that USF helped kill off the old Big East. It was extremely unstable to begin with, and it could’ve died a hundred different ways. Let’s just not pretend that history played out differently than it did.

The TV deal turned down in 2011 would in no way have stopped Pitt, WV, and Cuse fron leaving.

The rendition of the history of the BE break up here is totally alien to what even the people involved have publicly said in newspaper articles that are pretty easy to search.

I'll bring up only a few things.

1. The $13m a year deal for the BE was rejected because the ACC had already promised more to the schools that voted against it.
2. Notre Dame and a few of the Catholics sided with the schools rejecting the package, which was short-sighted.
3. The two initial schools for the ACC expansion were Syracuse and UConn, but BC blackballed UConn for fear of competition in the region. That's when they moved onto Pittsburgh, which had been in conversations with the B12 at the time.
4. The BE deal would never have gone through because they had enough votes against it. The Catholic schools that voted against it initially thought they had prevented football expansion, but they were surprised by the details in the contract that would have them relinquish their rights. The flipside is that the football schools thought they could lord the contract against the Catholics, and thus dictate terms, but when Notre Dame flipped their vote and entered the fray, the football schools' plan was defeated, and this sealed the fate for the conference, and lead to their inevitable break-up.

(11-24-2017 12:17 PM)upstater1 Wrote:  The rendition of the history of the BE break up here is totally alien to what even the people involved have publicly said in newspaper articles that are pretty easy to search.

I'll bring up only a few things.

1. The $13m a year deal for the BE was rejected because the ACC had already promised more to the schools that voted against it.
2. Notre Dame and a few of the Catholics sided with the schools rejecting the package, which was short-sighted.
3. The two initial schools for the ACC expansion were Syracuse and UConn, but BC blackballed UConn for fear of competition in the region. That's when they moved onto Pittsburgh, which had been in conversations with the B12 at the time.
4. The BE deal would never have gone through because they had enough votes against it. The Catholic schools that voted against it initially thought they had prevented football expansion, but they were surprised by the details in the contract that would have them relinquish their rights. The flipside is that the football schools thought they could lord the contract against the Catholics, and thus dictate terms, but when Notre Dame flipped their vote and entered the fray, the football schools' plan was defeated, and this sealed the fate for the conference, and lead to their inevitable break-up.

What a mess. Totally mismanaged from the top and it didn't get like that overnight. This was a long term case of mismanagement. To a lesser degree, we are seeing that in slow motion with the big 12. When that zit pops, its gonna be equally as messy.

(11-24-2017 12:17 PM)upstater1 Wrote:  The rendition of the history of the BE break up here is totally alien to what even the people involved have publicly said in newspaper articles that are pretty easy to search.

I'll bring up only a few things.

1. The $13m a year deal for the BE was rejected because the ACC had already promised more to the schools that voted against it.

Source?

Quote:2. Notre Dame and a few of the Catholics sided with the schools rejecting the package, which was short-sighted.

??? The four schools who opposed the package from the start included Pitt and Georgetown. I've never tracked down who the other two were. Is that what you're talking about?

Quote:4. The BE deal would never have gone through because they had enough votes against it. The Catholic schools that voted against it initially thought they had prevented football expansion, but they were surprised by the details in the contract that would have them relinquish their rights. The flipside is that the football schools thought they could lord the contract against the Catholics, and thus dictate terms, but when Notre Dame flipped their vote and entered the fray, the football schools' plan was defeated, and this sealed the fate for the conference, and lead to their inevitable break-up.

None of that makes very much sense, and some of it directly contradicts things in the very public timeline. What exactly are you talking about?

(11-24-2017 11:35 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Michigan State will blow past UCF next week with a win over B1G power Rutgers.

Sarcasm 101... I love it

I think Rutgers gets ranked on Monday... I mean, the way this pathetic trash ranks are being done it wouldn't suprise me.

First text of the weekend to the CFP Playoff Committee and sports media.

https://twitter.com/BBConnectionOrl/stat...0877303809

@CFBPlayoff
@ESPNCFB
@espn
@DavidHaleESPN
@dpshow
@PaulMyerberg
@KirkHerbstreit
@aadelsonESPN
@dannykanell
@CBSSportsCFB
@TimBrando
@ESPNRadio
@espn_ReceDavis
@SportsCenter
@BruceFeldmanCFB
@CFBHeather
@danieltosh
@dennisdoddcbs
@slmandel
@Andy_Staples

(11-24-2017 09:08 PM)Square Knight Wrote:  First text of the weekend to the CFP Playoff Committee and sports media.

https://twitter.com/BBConnectionOrl/stat...0877303809

@CFBPlayoff
@ESPNCFB
@espn
@DavidHaleESPN
@dpshow
@PaulMyerberg
@KirkHerbstreit
@aadelsonESPN
@dannykanell
@CBSSportsCFB
@TimBrando
@ESPNRadio
@espn_ReceDavis
@SportsCenter
@BruceFeldmanCFB
@CFBHeather
@danieltosh
@dennisdoddcbs
@slmandel
@Andy_Staples

Your link is broken.

(11-24-2017 09:18 PM)mikeinoki Wrote:  

(11-24-2017 09:08 PM)Square Knight Wrote:  First text of the weekend to the CFP Playoff Committee and sports media.

https://twitter.com/BBConnectionOrl/stat...0877303809

@CFBPlayoff
@ESPNCFB
@espn
@DavidHaleESPN
@dpshow
@PaulMyerberg
@KirkHerbstreit
@aadelsonESPN
@dannykanell
@CBSSportsCFB
@TimBrando
@ESPNRadio
@espn_ReceDavis
@SportsCenter
@BruceFeldmanCFB
@CFBHeather
@danieltosh
@dennisdoddcbs
@slmandel
@Andy_Staples

Your link is broken.

Thanks for the heads up. Weird technical glitch. I got the same error. Double checked the address...copied and pasted the address again directly from Twitter to edit the post, and now it seems to work again.

(11-24-2017 07:38 AM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 10:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 05:35 PM)fanhood Wrote:  

(11-23-2017 02:55 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  I've been saying over over and over again, the AAC has build itself into one solid strong stout conference.

Many AAC programs continue to rack victories over blue blod schools and yet the AAC isnt good enough, absolutely total BS.

This league deserves better bowls and a better tv $$$ deal, period.

Define the word "many" and the term "rack up." Not trying to split hairs, but the AAC is 4-14 against the P5 this year, and not one of those wins is over a team with a winning record.

Wrong yet again. Arizona is 7-4. That’s a “winning record” I believe.

Oh sorry. One.

I'm not making outlandish statements here. Houston has some P5 wins, as does Memphis. Navy has thebulset over ND. What other 'blue bloods' victories have been racked up.

For the record, I really like the Houston program, and think Major is going to do well there. However, manybhwre seemnto think the sky is falling regarding the program. What is it?

Looks like UCLA has climbed into the .500 or above crowd as well with their Black Friday win over Cal. As for Major, the jury is still out on him. I was not completely against the hire as I thought he could end up working out just fine when he was hired—but he wasn’t my preference. I preferred the idea of stealing a successful standing FBS coach at a school that paid less than us. We didn’t seem to even consider that type of hire for some reason.