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Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
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KSU Agee Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 06:40 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 12:37 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Ditto ... JWalker has to reel himself in. Waaaay to many 3s for an average 3-point shooter at best ... individually and as a team ...

Gotta disagree here. Walker's shot selection has not been an issue at all so far. He's made some seemingly wild turn around mid range jumpers but clearly he's put in a ton of work on that shot because I don't think he's missed one yet. So far he's shooting 53% overall and 38% from 3 and while he still takes some shots early in the shot clock he's taking good looks. His shot is really smooth and he has such a quick release as long as he's not taking bad shots he's got a bright green light at all times in my eyes.

In regards to him being an "average 3-point shooter at best" I strongly disagree. He was at 33% each of the last two years which isn't amazing but it was higher than the team average both years. And in my eyes the shot selection held that percentage down the last two years. So if that's fixed then I think we'll see him sustain the higher percentage.

Yes! At last nights game, the whole time I thought, I wish J Walker would just take this game over and run with it. BJ Duling looked like he was going to for a brief 2 minute period, but then he was flat again. Not much was clicking, not many others were shooting well. J Walker was scoring, and I wish we would have fed him more. It's frustrating losing to teams like that, but I also agree that we will be fine. Anybody know if feed will be available for the Savannah invitational?
11-22-2017 06:56 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 06:40 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 12:37 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Ditto ... JWalker has to reel himself in. Waaaay to many 3s for an average 3-point shooter at best ... individually and as a team ...

Gotta disagree here. Walker's shot selection has not been an issue at all so far. He's made some seemingly wild turn around mid range jumpers but clearly he's put in a ton of work on that shot because I don't think he's missed one yet. So far he's shooting 53% overall and 38% from 3 and while he still takes some shots early in the shot clock he's taking good looks. His shot is really smooth and he has such a quick release as long as he's not taking bad shots he's got a bright green light at all times in my eyes.

In regards to him being an "average 3-point shooter at best" I strongly disagree. He was at 33% each of the last two years which isn't amazing but it was higher than the team average both years. And in my eyes the shot selection held that percentage down the last two years. So if that's fixed then I think we'll see him sustain the higher percentage.

First ... never said a word about his mid-range shot, which I think is his best weapon and he can shoot any time he wants for my tastes. Personally, 38% is on the high end of average in my book, 33% is on the low end ... although I can see where others are OK with that %.

Perhaps I should say shooting more than 6 or 7 a game for someone who is not a 40-percenter makes me cringe. Again, if you are OK with that, I'm OK with that, just saying what my individual taste is.

He is so strong/quick going to the basket, and such a good free throw shooter, my personal preference would be to see him get his 3-points that way.

Of course, based on how the rest of the team is shooting 3s, he's probably got a better chance than the rest of them to make one. And if that gives the bigs a little more elbow room, so be it.
11-22-2017 08:05 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 08:05 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 06:40 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 12:37 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Ditto ... JWalker has to reel himself in. Waaaay to many 3s for an average 3-point shooter at best ... individually and as a team ...

Gotta disagree here. Walker's shot selection has not been an issue at all so far. He's made some seemingly wild turn around mid range jumpers but clearly he's put in a ton of work on that shot because I don't think he's missed one yet. So far he's shooting 53% overall and 38% from 3 and while he still takes some shots early in the shot clock he's taking good looks. His shot is really smooth and he has such a quick release as long as he's not taking bad shots he's got a bright green light at all times in my eyes.

In regards to him being an "average 3-point shooter at best" I strongly disagree. He was at 33% each of the last two years which isn't amazing but it was higher than the team average both years. And in my eyes the shot selection held that percentage down the last two years. So if that's fixed then I think we'll see him sustain the higher percentage.

First ... never said a word about his mid-range shot, which I think is his best weapon and he can shoot any time he wants for my tastes. Personally, 38% is on the high end of average in my book, 33% is on the low end ... although I can see where others are OK with that %.

Perhaps I should say shooting more than 6 or 7 a game for someone who is not a 40-percenter makes me cringe. Again, if you are OK with that, I'm OK with that, just saying what my individual taste is.

He is so strong/quick going to the basket, and such a good free throw shooter, my personal preference would be to see him get his 3-points that way.

Of course, based on how the rest of the team is shooting 3s, he's probably got a better chance than the rest of them to make one. And if that gives the bigs a little more elbow room, so be it.

I think you're being a little unrealistic with your expectations. 40% at 6-7 attempts a game is really really good. Shooting 40% from three would mean you're averaging 1.2 points per possession when that player attempts a three. That's really efficient particularly for that many attempts.

To give a little perspective as to what Kent's offensive efficiency has looked like the last 10 years. The first number is their total points per possession and the number in parenthesis is points per possession excluding turnover possessions since the choice of a three or a two isn't being made on those possessions.
  • 16/17 - 0.89 PPS (1.04)
  • 16/15 - 0.91 PPS (1.06)
  • 15/14 - 0.89 PPS (1.05)
  • 14/13 - 0.89 PPS (1.06)
  • 13/12 - 0.90 PPS (1.07)
  • 12/11 - 0.89 PPS (1.08)
  • 11/10 - 0.87 PPS (1.03)
  • 10/09 - 0.88 PPS (1.03)
  • 09/08 - 0.86 PPS (1.03)
  • 08/07 - 0.90 PPS (1.12)

At 38% Walker is getting 1.14 per possession he takes a three. That's more points per possession than Kent's scored in 10 years even if you exclude turnovers.

Trevor Huffman only shot 40+% once in his career and that was when he was a freshman taking 2.5 per game. For his career he was 37.8% three point shooter. Andrew Mitchell hit 40% as a junior on 3.1 attempts per game but for his career he was a 36.2% 3 point shooter. Randall Holt who holds Kent's record for most threes in a career never got about 38.6% and for his career was at 36%. Dev Manely, who I believe was the best three point shooter to ever play at Kent, did go over 40% once and was over 39% two other times. For his career he was 39.6%.

In regards to the mid range game I agree that he's really dangerous there. I only brought that up because I could only think of one three he's attempted this year that felt forced. So I thought maybe you were talking about all the off balanced mid range shots he takes. Glad you weren't since he's shooting an absurd 70.8% from two this year.
11-22-2017 09:31 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 09:31 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 08:05 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 06:40 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 12:37 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Ditto ... JWalker has to reel himself in. Waaaay to many 3s for an average 3-point shooter at best ... individually and as a team ...

Gotta disagree here. Walker's shot selection has not been an issue at all so far. He's made some seemingly wild turn around mid range jumpers but clearly he's put in a ton of work on that shot because I don't think he's missed one yet. So far he's shooting 53% overall and 38% from 3 and while he still takes some shots early in the shot clock he's taking good looks. His shot is really smooth and he has such a quick release as long as he's not taking bad shots he's got a bright green light at all times in my eyes.

In regards to him being an "average 3-point shooter at best" I strongly disagree. He was at 33% each of the last two years which isn't amazing but it was higher than the team average both years. And in my eyes the shot selection held that percentage down the last two years. So if that's fixed then I think we'll see him sustain the higher percentage.

First ... never said a word about his mid-range shot, which I think is his best weapon and he can shoot any time he wants for my tastes. Personally, 38% is on the high end of average in my book, 33% is on the low end ... although I can see where others are OK with that %.

Perhaps I should say shooting more than 6 or 7 a game for someone who is not a 40-percenter makes me cringe. Again, if you are OK with that, I'm OK with that, just saying what my individual taste is.

He is so strong/quick going to the basket, and such a good free throw shooter, my personal preference would be to see him get his 3-points that way.

Of course, based on how the rest of the team is shooting 3s, he's probably got a better chance than the rest of them to make one. And if that gives the bigs a little more elbow room, so be it.

I think you're being a little unrealistic with your expectations. 40% at 6-7 attempts a game is really really good. Shooting 40% from three would mean you're averaging 1.2 points per possession when that player attempts a three. That's really efficient particularly for that many attempts.

To give a little perspective as to what Kent's offensive efficiency has looked like the last 10 years. The first number is their total points per possession and the number in parenthesis is points per possession excluding turnover possessions since the choice of a three or a two isn't being made on those possessions.
  • 16/17 - 0.89 PPS (1.04)
  • 16/15 - 0.91 PPS (1.06)
  • 15/14 - 0.89 PPS (1.05)
  • 14/13 - 0.89 PPS (1.06)
  • 13/12 - 0.90 PPS (1.07)
  • 12/11 - 0.89 PPS (1.08)
  • 11/10 - 0.87 PPS (1.03)
  • 10/09 - 0.88 PPS (1.03)
  • 09/08 - 0.86 PPS (1.03)
  • 08/07 - 0.90 PPS (1.12)

At 38% Walker is getting 1.14 per possession he takes a three. That's more points per possession than Kent's scored in 10 years even if you exclude turnovers.

Trevor Huffman only shot 40+% once in his career and that was when he was a freshman taking 2.5 per game. For his career he was 37.8% three point shooter. Andrew Mitchell hit 40% as a junior on 3.1 attempts per game but for his career he was a 36.2% 3 point shooter. Randall Holt who holds Kent's record for most threes in a career never got about 38.6% and for his career was at 36%. Dev Manely, who I believe was the best three point shooter to ever play at Kent, did go over 40% once and was over 39% two other times. For his career he was 39.6%.

In regards to the mid range game I agree that he's really dangerous there. I only brought that up because I could only think of one three he's attempted this year that felt forced. So I thought maybe you were talking about all the off balanced mid range shots he takes. Glad you weren't since he's shooting an absurd 70.8% from two this year.

Analytics waaaaay over my head. Bow to your numbers. Also, haven't seen the games like you yet (night work), only watching the box scores.

As for best 3-point shooter, ... don't know his numbers but have to think Haut was up there on %%%. May have been one other player from way back when too ... but probably didn't shoot a lot of them like now.

Let's put it this way ... If Kent needs a shot to win a game, and the ball is in Walker's hands ... I'd still rather he take it to the basket.
11-22-2017 09:43 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 09:43 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 09:31 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 08:05 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 06:40 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 12:37 PM)cleveland Wrote:  Ditto ... JWalker has to reel himself in. Waaaay to many 3s for an average 3-point shooter at best ... individually and as a team ...

Gotta disagree here. Walker's shot selection has not been an issue at all so far. He's made some seemingly wild turn around mid range jumpers but clearly he's put in a ton of work on that shot because I don't think he's missed one yet. So far he's shooting 53% overall and 38% from 3 and while he still takes some shots early in the shot clock he's taking good looks. His shot is really smooth and he has such a quick release as long as he's not taking bad shots he's got a bright green light at all times in my eyes.

In regards to him being an "average 3-point shooter at best" I strongly disagree. He was at 33% each of the last two years which isn't amazing but it was higher than the team average both years. And in my eyes the shot selection held that percentage down the last two years. So if that's fixed then I think we'll see him sustain the higher percentage.

First ... never said a word about his mid-range shot, which I think is his best weapon and he can shoot any time he wants for my tastes. Personally, 38% is on the high end of average in my book, 33% is on the low end ... although I can see where others are OK with that %.

Perhaps I should say shooting more than 6 or 7 a game for someone who is not a 40-percenter makes me cringe. Again, if you are OK with that, I'm OK with that, just saying what my individual taste is.

He is so strong/quick going to the basket, and such a good free throw shooter, my personal preference would be to see him get his 3-points that way.

Of course, based on how the rest of the team is shooting 3s, he's probably got a better chance than the rest of them to make one. And if that gives the bigs a little more elbow room, so be it.

I think you're being a little unrealistic with your expectations. 40% at 6-7 attempts a game is really really good. Shooting 40% from three would mean you're averaging 1.2 points per possession when that player attempts a three. That's really efficient particularly for that many attempts.

To give a little perspective as to what Kent's offensive efficiency has looked like the last 10 years. The first number is their total points per possession and the number in parenthesis is points per possession excluding turnover possessions since the choice of a three or a two isn't being made on those possessions.
  • 16/17 - 0.89 PPS (1.04)
  • 16/15 - 0.91 PPS (1.06)
  • 15/14 - 0.89 PPS (1.05)
  • 14/13 - 0.89 PPS (1.06)
  • 13/12 - 0.90 PPS (1.07)
  • 12/11 - 0.89 PPS (1.08)
  • 11/10 - 0.87 PPS (1.03)
  • 10/09 - 0.88 PPS (1.03)
  • 09/08 - 0.86 PPS (1.03)
  • 08/07 - 0.90 PPS (1.12)

At 38% Walker is getting 1.14 per possession he takes a three. That's more points per possession than Kent's scored in 10 years even if you exclude turnovers.

Trevor Huffman only shot 40+% once in his career and that was when he was a freshman taking 2.5 per game. For his career he was 37.8% three point shooter. Andrew Mitchell hit 40% as a junior on 3.1 attempts per game but for his career he was a 36.2% 3 point shooter. Randall Holt who holds Kent's record for most threes in a career never got about 38.6% and for his career was at 36%. Dev Manely, who I believe was the best three point shooter to ever play at Kent, did go over 40% once and was over 39% two other times. For his career he was 39.6%.

In regards to the mid range game I agree that he's really dangerous there. I only brought that up because I could only think of one three he's attempted this year that felt forced. So I thought maybe you were talking about all the off balanced mid range shots he takes. Glad you weren't since he's shooting an absurd 70.8% from two this year.

Analytics waaaaay over my head. Bow to your numbers. Also, haven't seen the games like you yet (night work), only watching the box scores.

As for best 3-point shooter, ... don't know his numbers but have to think Haut was up there on %%%. May have been one other player from way back when too ... but probably didn't shoot a lot of them like now.

Let's put it this way ... If Kent needs a shot to win a game, and the ball is in Walker's hands ... I'd still rather he take it to the basket.

In 1993, Jeff Anderson led the nation in 3 point FG %. If my memory serves me, he was 52/98 for the season.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2017 09:50 PM by dannyb73.)
11-22-2017 09:49 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 09:49 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 09:43 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 09:31 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 08:05 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(11-22-2017 06:40 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Gotta disagree here. Walker's shot selection has not been an issue at all so far. He's made some seemingly wild turn around mid range jumpers but clearly he's put in a ton of work on that shot because I don't think he's missed one yet. So far he's shooting 53% overall and 38% from 3 and while he still takes some shots early in the shot clock he's taking good looks. His shot is really smooth and he has such a quick release as long as he's not taking bad shots he's got a bright green light at all times in my eyes.

In regards to him being an "average 3-point shooter at best" I strongly disagree. He was at 33% each of the last two years which isn't amazing but it was higher than the team average both years. And in my eyes the shot selection held that percentage down the last two years. So if that's fixed then I think we'll see him sustain the higher percentage.

First ... never said a word about his mid-range shot, which I think is his best weapon and he can shoot any time he wants for my tastes. Personally, 38% is on the high end of average in my book, 33% is on the low end ... although I can see where others are OK with that %.

Perhaps I should say shooting more than 6 or 7 a game for someone who is not a 40-percenter makes me cringe. Again, if you are OK with that, I'm OK with that, just saying what my individual taste is.

He is so strong/quick going to the basket, and such a good free throw shooter, my personal preference would be to see him get his 3-points that way.

Of course, based on how the rest of the team is shooting 3s, he's probably got a better chance than the rest of them to make one. And if that gives the bigs a little more elbow room, so be it.

I think you're being a little unrealistic with your expectations. 40% at 6-7 attempts a game is really really good. Shooting 40% from three would mean you're averaging 1.2 points per possession when that player attempts a three. That's really efficient particularly for that many attempts.

To give a little perspective as to what Kent's offensive efficiency has looked like the last 10 years. The first number is their total points per possession and the number in parenthesis is points per possession excluding turnover possessions since the choice of a three or a two isn't being made on those possessions.
  • 16/17 - 0.89 PPS (1.04)
  • 16/15 - 0.91 PPS (1.06)
  • 15/14 - 0.89 PPS (1.05)
  • 14/13 - 0.89 PPS (1.06)
  • 13/12 - 0.90 PPS (1.07)
  • 12/11 - 0.89 PPS (1.08)
  • 11/10 - 0.87 PPS (1.03)
  • 10/09 - 0.88 PPS (1.03)
  • 09/08 - 0.86 PPS (1.03)
  • 08/07 - 0.90 PPS (1.12)

At 38% Walker is getting 1.14 per possession he takes a three. That's more points per possession than Kent's scored in 10 years even if you exclude turnovers.

Trevor Huffman only shot 40+% once in his career and that was when he was a freshman taking 2.5 per game. For his career he was 37.8% three point shooter. Andrew Mitchell hit 40% as a junior on 3.1 attempts per game but for his career he was a 36.2% 3 point shooter. Randall Holt who holds Kent's record for most threes in a career never got about 38.6% and for his career was at 36%. Dev Manely, who I believe was the best three point shooter to ever play at Kent, did go over 40% once and was over 39% two other times. For his career he was 39.6%.

In regards to the mid range game I agree that he's really dangerous there. I only brought that up because I could only think of one three he's attempted this year that felt forced. So I thought maybe you were talking about all the off balanced mid range shots he takes. Glad you weren't since he's shooting an absurd 70.8% from two this year.

Analytics waaaaay over my head. Bow to your numbers. Also, haven't seen the games like you yet (night work), only watching the box scores.

As for best 3-point shooter, ... don't know his numbers but have to think Haut was up there on %%%. May have been one other player from way back when too ... but probably didn't shoot a lot of them like now.

Let's put it this way ... If Kent needs a shot to win a game, and the ball is in Walker's hands ... I'd still rather he take it to the basket.

In 1993, Jeff Anderson led the nation in 3 point FG %. If my memory serves me, he was 52/98 for the season.

DAMNNNNN... that was 25-years ago. Amazing stat. Bring him back.
11-22-2017 10:16 PM
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Kentville Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
And the following season, Jeff Anderson couldn't BUY a three point shot. His decline was a total mystery, but typical of Kent's "luck" at the time.
11-23-2017 12:25 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
Jeff Anderson! Forgot all about him! A real mystery. He must have had Steve Blass syndrome. Not only did his 3-point shooting disappear, so did his free throw shooting. As a junior he was almost automatic, then he slipped to mediocrity as a senior. I recall going to memorial Gym to see them play a heavily favored Ohio team. I don't remember if it was when he was a junior or senior. But he went to the line to secure a huge upset and missed two shots. I was dumbfounded. Ohio went on to pull it out, I think in overtime. I had forgotten all about him until now. I can't recall any Kent State player ever having as much of a decline, not counting those due to injuries. To the best of my memory, he had no injury issue.
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2017 05:02 AM by Muskrat.)
11-23-2017 04:43 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
(11-22-2017 09:43 PM)cleveland Wrote:  As for best 3-point shooter, ... don't know his numbers but have to think Haut was up there on %%%. May have been one other player from way back when too ... but probably didn't shoot a lot of them like now.

Definitely a strong argument could be made for Haut. I lean Dev because when his attempts went way up (8.2 per game) his average didn't dip and Haut probably played with better point guards that could create for him. But you're right Haut had a better career % 40.5 to Dev's 39.6%. So there's probably no right or wrong answer between the two.

Anderson was before my time but wow that one season looks pretty crazy. What a weapon he would be in today's game.
11-23-2017 10:39 AM
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KSU Agee Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Kent State vs. SE Louisiana
Well, Ahmed Ali is here to save us next year. With him and Walker shooting 3's, I believe our offense will be scary and we won't lose games like Tuesday. I'm willing to let this team learn and grow this year, and really put it together for a huge season next year when these younger players develop and mature. But at the same time, I agree with dannyB in that we will be very very good this year as well.
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2017 11:41 AM by KSU Agee.)
11-23-2017 11:40 AM
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