(11-27-2017 11:07 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: Time for the QB defender step up...
I like Hayden Moore... I mean I want someone better to play QB for UC and ultimately think he's a below average starting QB, but I have no doubt he's the best on the roster and I think if he gets even a tiny bit of help next year we should see him have a nice senior year. The number of big plays the UC wide receivers left on the field this year was staggering. Moore delivered some great down the field passes and we never seemed to take advantage. To me Moore absolutely makes too many bad decisions and is too often too inaccurate in the short to medium passing game. However, I thought his decision making was better this year than in the past two years and the dude absolutely puts it on the line every game. I really appreciated the number of times he lowered the shoulder to get the needed extra few yards or stood in and took a big hit to make a throw. He's a warrior who has many liabilities, but I have no doubt was our best option this year. He also throws a really good deep ball which is his one strength and the one area where we were too often let down by the wide receivers.
Ultimately, UC needs a QB that is way better than Hayden Moore, but I think he deserves some props for what he did do as well.
BTW, Hayden Moore finished the season ranked a robust #109 out of all 128 QBs in Total QB Ratings. High number is good, right?
Count me in with the Hayden defenders. I think Mark gives him a bit too much credit for his long ball ability (he had some beauties but there were also some wtf throws too) but otherwise gives a pretty fair analysis.
One thing I think people get wrong about him is the claim that he dissolves under pressure. I've seen him stay in the pocket and take the hit after a good throw many times. I think the problem is more with his improvisation. For some reason he likes to get creative at the wrong time (e.g. when he's getting tackled rather than while he's scrambling.) Once he gets flushed out of the pocket, he very rarely gets a completion. I don't think he spends much time actually looking, but I'm sure the lack of separation by the WRs is also a big part of that. The upside though is that he's actually pretty good at turning those plays into positive rushing yards.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2017 11:32 AM by Bearhawkeye.)
(11-27-2017 11:07 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: Time for the QB defender step up...
I like Hayden Moore... I mean I want someone better to play QB for UC and ultimately think he's a below average starting QB, but I have no doubt he's the best on the roster and I think if he gets even a tiny bit of help next year we should see him have a nice senior year. The number of big plays the UC wide receivers left on the field this year was staggering. Moore delivered some great down the field passes and we never seemed to take advantage. To me Moore absolutely makes too many bad decisions and is too often too inaccurate in the short to medium passing game. However, I thought his decision making was better this year than in the past two years and the dude absolutely puts it on the line every game. I really appreciated the number of times he lowered the shoulder to get the needed extra few yards or stood in and took a big hit to make a throw. He's a warrior who has many liabilities, but I have no doubt was our best option this year. He also throws a really good deep ball which is his one strength and the one area where we were too often let down by the wide receivers.
Ultimately, UC needs a QB that is way better than Hayden Moore, but I think he deserves some props for what he did do as well.
BTW, Hayden Moore finished the season ranked a robust #109 out of all 128 QBs in Total QB Ratings. High number is good, right?
My biggest issue with QBR is I think it is heavily influenced by the team around you. Penalized for sacks is a big way, but hard to factor things like how much separation receivers get as well.
I think Moore is the scapegoat for an incredibly flawed offense. In an ideal world he wouldn't be our QB, but I think he was hurt a lot by his line/receivers and I appreciate the fight he showed game after game. As I stated in an ideal world I'd rather have another QB, but I appreciate his effort and think with some help he could have a solid senior season.
I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
(11-27-2017 11:45 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
I don't disagree that he's the worst starter we have had since.... I say early Grutza... Kelly got a really nice senior season from Grutza, but he was bad for the other years. Moore has shown enough to me that with the right help maybe he can have a productive finish like Grutza did. I don't think we're that far apart, but I think the other roster flaws really exacerbate his liabilities. In the right situation I think we can get a solid year from him as a senior. I wish there were better options available for us.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2017 11:54 AM by bearcatmark.)
(11-27-2017 12:05 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote: With the current supporting cast, I'm not sure any QB is going to make a huge difference.
A Collaros, or Munchie type QB likely would have been a huge difference. Someone who was a legitimate running threat when the pocket broke down likely would have opened up our offense.
Someone who doesn't desperately flip the ball away towards the bad guys like the neighborhood kid in kill the man that doesn't want to get hit would make a difference.
Kid tries to throw the ball away like Garo Ypremian in the Super Bowl once a game.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2017 12:21 PM by rath v2.0.)
(11-27-2017 11:07 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: Time for the QB defender step up...
I like Hayden Moore... I mean I want someone better to play QB for UC and ultimately think he's a below average starting QB, but I have no doubt he's the best on the roster
i don't know how anyone can make this statement without inside information. i don't know that any of us had an opportunity to evaluate how Trail or anyone else would have done with equal practice time or game time; and that was one of the big problems i had with the coaching staff. it may very well be the case that Moore is the best qb on our roster currently, but how can anyone be sure since Moore took almost all of the snaps win, lose or draw?
(11-27-2017 11:45 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
I don't disagree that he's the worst starter we have had since.... I say early Grutza... Kelly got a really nice senior season from Grutza, but he was bad for the other years. Moore has shown enough to me that with the right help maybe he can have a productive finish like Grutza did. I don't think we're that far apart, but I think the other roster flaws really exacerbate his liabilities. In the right situation I think we can get a solid year from him as a senior. I wish there were better options available for us.
Early Grutza was a little shaky.... although he later redeemed himself and to date Moore hasn't. If it is not Grutza you really have to go back pretty far as we had Gino before that, Deontay Kenner and Chad Plummer, Lance Harp (went 8-3 in 93).... back in the 1980s we had Danny Barrett, and Danny McCoin, all excellent QBs who, despite the weaknesses around them. Might have to go with Troy Bodine from the 1984 team, only completed about 49% of his passes and threw 3 Tds vs 13 INTs.
(11-27-2017 12:14 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Someone who doesn't desperately flip the ball away towards the bad guys like the neighborhood kid in kill the man that doesn't want to get hit would make a difference.
Kid tries to throw the ball away like Garo Ypremian in the Super Bowl once a game.
He has had funny as chit INTs and almost did the above on Saturday. Did I post this, Flowers USF must have thrown the ball in the stands 8 times vs. UCF, when he had no good looks.
(11-27-2017 11:45 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
I don't disagree that he's the worst starter we have had since.... I say early Grutza... Kelly got a really nice senior season from Grutza, but he was bad for the other years. Moore has shown enough to me that with the right help maybe he can have a productive finish like Grutza did. I don't think we're that far apart, but I think the other roster flaws really exacerbate his liabilities. In the right situation I think we can get a solid year from him as a senior. I wish there were better options available for us.
Early Grutza was a little shaky.... although he later redeemed himself and to date Moore hasn't. If it is not Grutza you really have to go back pretty far as we had Gino before that, Deontay Kenner and Chad Plummer, Lance Harp (went 8-3 in 93).... back in the 1980s we had Danny Barrett, and Danny McCoin, all excellent QBs who, despite the weaknesses around them. Might have to go with Troy Bodine from the 1984 team, only completed about 49% of his passes and threw 3 Tds vs 13 INTs.
(11-27-2017 12:14 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: Someone who doesn't desperately flip the ball away towards the bad guys like the neighborhood kid in kill the man that doesn't want to get hit would make a difference.
Kid tries to throw the ball away like Garo Ypremian in the Super Bowl once a game.
He has had funny as chit INTs and almost did the above on Saturday. Did I post this, Flowers USF must have thrown the ball in the stands 8 times vs. UCF, when he had no good looks.
(11-27-2017 11:45 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
I don't disagree that he's the worst starter we have had since.... I say early Grutza... Kelly got a really nice senior season from Grutza, but he was bad for the other years. Moore has shown enough to me that with the right help maybe he can have a productive finish like Grutza did. I don't think we're that far apart, but I think the other roster flaws really exacerbate his liabilities. In the right situation I think we can get a solid year from him as a senior. I wish there were better options available for us.
Early Grutza was a little shaky.... although he later redeemed himself and to date Moore hasn't. If it is not Grutza you really have to go back pretty far as we had Gino before that, Deontay Kenner and Chad Plummer, Lance Harp (went 8-3 in 93).... back in the 1980s we had Danny Barrett, and Danny McCoin, all excellent QBs who, despite the weaknesses around them. Might have to go with Troy Bodine from the 1984 team, only completed about 49% of his passes and threw 3 Tds vs 13 INTs.
Collin Carey - 2004
I mean, if the standard is QBs that started one game this is the best possible answer.
(11-27-2017 11:45 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
I don't disagree that he's the worst starter we have had since.... I say early Grutza... Kelly got a really nice senior season from Grutza, but he was bad for the other years. Moore has shown enough to me that with the right help maybe he can have a productive finish like Grutza did. I don't think we're that far apart, but I think the other roster flaws really exacerbate his liabilities. In the right situation I think we can get a solid year from him as a senior. I wish there were better options available for us.
Early Grutza was a little shaky.... although he later redeemed himself and to date Moore hasn't. If it is not Grutza you really have to go back pretty far as we had Gino before that, Deontay Kenner and Chad Plummer, Lance Harp (went 8-3 in 93).... back in the 1980s we had Danny Barrett, and Danny McCoin, all excellent QBs who, despite the weaknesses around them. Might have to go with Troy Bodine from the 1984 team, only completed about 49% of his passes and threw 3 Tds vs 13 INTs.
Thank you...
I remember Grutza with a lot of fondness. He was...limited...but he eventually grew into those limits nicely, and when he finally realized that he didn't have a canon-arm to stretch the field deep, he developed a helluva touch and great vision for the field. Dantonio used those qualities to great effect, I thought Brian Kelly never really appreciated Grutza as an on-the-field QB preferring the brute power of Nick Davilla and eventually Tony Pike over Grutza's more workman-like proficiency. I'll give Mauk the pass because he had the whole package. But it was Grutza who salvaged the International Bowl win and even stepped back in when he came back into the game in Hawai'i and pulled the situation out of the fire.
Grutza turned into an extremely serviceable QB for us, albeit he was overshadowed by Mauk, Pike, and the QB's who followed him. I haven't seen any real indication that Hayden Moore will do that.
(And a side note... The early Gino Guidugli was exciting, but reckless too. We remember him fondly now, but his early career was splotchy.)
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2017 03:45 PM by BearcatJerry.)
(11-27-2017 11:45 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: I think Moore is the worst starter we have had in many moons and we are about to dial up a 3rd year of him starting the season as the #1. I'd say "what's the definition of insanity" but he is the best option of a position group that is not ready for prime time.
He's the type of kid UCONN has relied upon during their stellar run of craptasticness.
I don't disagree that he's the worst starter we have had since.... I say early Grutza... Kelly got a really nice senior season from Grutza, but he was bad for the other years. Moore has shown enough to me that with the right help maybe he can have a productive finish like Grutza did. I don't think we're that far apart, but I think the other roster flaws really exacerbate his liabilities. In the right situation I think we can get a solid year from him as a senior. I wish there were better options available for us.
Early Grutza was a little shaky.... although he later redeemed himself and to date Moore hasn't. If it is not Grutza you really have to go back pretty far as we had Gino before that, Deontay Kenner and Chad Plummer, Lance Harp (went 8-3 in 93).... back in the 1980s we had Danny Barrett, and Danny McCoin, all excellent QBs who, despite the weaknesses around them. Might have to go with Troy Bodine from the 1984 team, only completed about 49% of his passes and threw 3 Tds vs 13 INTs.
Thank you...
I remember Grutza with a lot of fondness. He was...limited...but he eventually grew into those limits nicely, and when he finally realized that he didn't have a canon-arm to stretch the field deep, he developed a helluva touch and great vision for the field. Dantonio used those qualities to great effect, I thought Brian Kelly never really appreciated Grutza as an on-the-field QB preferring the brute power of Nick Davilla and eventually Tony Pike over Grutza's more workman-like proficiency. I'll give Mauk the pass because he had the whole package. But it was Grutza who salvaged the International Bowl win and even stepped back in when he came back into the game in Hawai'i and pulled the situation out of the fire.
Grutza turned into an extremely serviceable QB for us, albeit he was overshadowed by Mauk, Pike, and the QB's who followed him. I haven't seen any real indication that Hayden Moore will do that.
(And a side note... The early Gino Guidugli was exciting, but reckless too. We remember him fondly now, but his early career was splotchy.)
Bk only was coach for one davila game. Grutza was a huge liability both years when dantonio was here and eventually was benched before the rutgers game.
He got very little run the mauk year but Kelly put him in good situations when he did (and the talent was around him). He seemed to have progressed the orange bowl year but it's hard to say because he was injured very early and pike came in. The rest is history.
Credit to grutza who fought back from injury to be to play and help late that year. Go back and look at his career numbers though. They aren't pretty.
We remember grutza fondly because he was very good in the few moments we needed him under bk with a loaded offense and a coach who seemed to put every qb in the prefect situation. That clouds us from the 2 years he started under dantonio and really struggled.
(11-27-2017 04:50 PM)bearcatmark Wrote: We remember grutza fondly because he was very good in the few moments we needed him under bk with a loaded offense and a coach who seemed to put every qb in the prefect situation. That clouds us from the 2 years he started under dantonio and really struggled.
Hayden Moore's performance this year blows Grutza out of the water. No offense to Grutza, but when he had the reigns the QB play was not good.
He managed things well as his career went on, but this board would eviserate him if he were playing now.
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Cats vs. Dogs: Senior Day Edition
