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Will 2018 be better?
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 08:10 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 10:15 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 09:05 PM)rosewater Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 08:23 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 07:03 PM)rosewater Wrote:  Miami, am, Ohio, ecu, Tulane, navy, UConn. We get seven next year with talent and experience upgrade. Haden plays better, the runningbacks go crazy, the defense returns everyone except minor and plays stout. And remember, I am one of the few that predicted a losing record this year.

Maybe you did it somewhere, but it wasn't in the week 1 poll I did here. Just to refresh some memories: We had 48 predictions and NOBODY picked us worse than 6-6.

As far as next year, yeah I think it will be better but I'm not that confident of it right now and also lacking confidence that it will involve great improvement. During the offseason I thought we could start putting it together this year which we obviously haven't. Then I was fooled into thinking we were at least seeing improvement during the season, but that looks more like the ordinary ups and (mostly in this case) downs every team faces.. So I'm now pretty much in "prove it" mode...
From predictions made on 7-27. 5-7 with wins in 3 of last four. Some others also predicted the same.

Correct I also was guilty of thinking we had hired a competent coach. Having seen almost a year of his work, I have seen no improvement at all. Total lack of discipline, no in game meaningful adjustments.

I'm still under the impression most people here don't know what a "in game adjustment" is, and they just echo the circlejerk of the board. According to Bearcat Banter the problem with out team lies completely in coaching and we hired a dud.

I’m pretty sure to most on here, an in Game adjustment would mean saying one short, well phrased sentence that would turn Hayden Moore into Tony Pike and turn Carter Jacobs into Haruki Nakamura. Seems pretty simple, If CLF isn’t capable of that he should be fired.
 
11-20-2017 08:15 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 08:15 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It's just 2010 silly angstiness again. Like I said in the other thread, same people that demanded Jones be fired in year one and left their seats after a 4-8 season were back in 2012 complaining that we were going to lose our coach again.

I'm beginning to think this interwebs thingy was a bad idea.

I'm in your camp on this. UC would have/could have/should have beaten SMU. Had they done that, and if they win Saturday (UC is favored) that would have been the five wins some predicted, albeit a shaky five wins. So it's not much of a stretch to believe the squad improves enough next year to get six wins and a bowl, getting the program back on track.
 
11-20-2017 08:38 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #23
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 08:10 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 10:15 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 09:05 PM)rosewater Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 08:23 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 07:03 PM)rosewater Wrote:  Miami, am, Ohio, ecu, Tulane, navy, UConn. We get seven next year with talent and experience upgrade. Haden plays better, the runningbacks go crazy, the defense returns everyone except minor and plays stout. And remember, I am one of the few that predicted a losing record this year.

Maybe you did it somewhere, but it wasn't in the week 1 poll I did here. Just to refresh some memories: We had 48 predictions and NOBODY picked us worse than 6-6.

As far as next year, yeah I think it will be better but I'm not that confident of it right now and also lacking confidence that it will involve great improvement. During the offseason I thought we could start putting it together this year which we obviously haven't. Then I was fooled into thinking we were at least seeing improvement during the season, but that looks more like the ordinary ups and (mostly in this case) downs every team faces.. So I'm now pretty much in "prove it" mode...
From predictions made on 7-27. 5-7 with wins in 3 of last four. Some others also predicted the same.

Correct I also was guilty of thinking we had hired a competent coach. Having seen almost a year of his work, I have seen no improvement at all. Total lack of discipline, no in game meaningful adjustments.

I'm still under the impression most people here don't know what a "in game adjustment" is, and they just echo the circlejerk of the board. According to Bearcat Banter the problem with out team lies completely in coaching and we hired a dud.

Exactly. I don't care what the 247 rankings say, this talent doesn't even match up to some of our teams from the 90s. I'd take the talent on the roster on the 1997 team over the 2017 team. Those who were around remember:

-Chad Plummer over Hayden Moore
-Love to have Daryl Royal, Robert Cooper or Landen Smith in this backfield (admit the young guys Doaks and Warren have potential to be special but they are not there yet)
- WR-- Jason Collins Baker and Cornelius Bonner would be top guys if added to this crew
TE- Cogswell couldn't hold Rodrick Monroe's jock.
OL- Can't recall the OL that year, I think Fabini was gone by then... maybe Rosfeld was still around but he was better than what we got now by a mile.
Defense- Hassan Champion, Philip Curry, Brad Jackson, Artrell Hawkins, Tinker Keck... yep all better than their current counterparts
Special Teams- Tinker Keck (enough said)
 
11-20-2017 09:11 AM
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AeroCat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Will 2018 be better?
I really think that next year is going to be what I expected this year. 5-7 or 6-6 with the team playing disciplined football but not having the talent to have a winning record.

The home slate looks pretty good next year so I'll probably re-up my tickets.

I am pretty frustrated with how this year went. Maybe I'm forgetting how bad the team looked last year, but it couldn't have been worse than what we're seeing this year. I guess I just didn't expect them to regress this much.

The defense is just plain awful. I can't believe how bad the secondary play has been. And no one is accusing Freeman of being a defensive genius. I appreciate that this crop of coaches are committed to turning UC around the right way, but I wish they didn't have to learn on the job.

Eh, but who would've been better? At one time I was in the PJ Fleck camp, but I think his CBJ-esque clichés would've gotten annoying and there just seems to be something shady about the guy. I think we made the right hire, but CLF is going to have to do some book learnin' and soul searching in the off-season.
 
11-20-2017 09:15 AM
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djtothemoney Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Will 2018 be better?
They had an interesting quote in the Enquirer this morning where Fickell somewhat called out his Seniors. I'm thinking this is a lot like the 2010 season, look for a big improvement next year.

Who would have thought our ST would have gotten worse when we actually added a coach?
 
11-20-2017 09:35 AM
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Murph45 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 09:11 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 08:10 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 10:15 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 09:05 PM)rosewater Wrote:  
(11-19-2017 08:23 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Maybe you did it somewhere, but it wasn't in the week 1 poll I did here. Just to refresh some memories: We had 48 predictions and NOBODY picked us worse than 6-6.

As far as next year, yeah I think it will be better but I'm not that confident of it right now and also lacking confidence that it will involve great improvement. During the offseason I thought we could start putting it together this year which we obviously haven't. Then I was fooled into thinking we were at least seeing improvement during the season, but that looks more like the ordinary ups and (mostly in this case) downs every team faces.. So I'm now pretty much in "prove it" mode...
From predictions made on 7-27. 5-7 with wins in 3 of last four. Some others also predicted the same.

Correct I also was guilty of thinking we had hired a competent coach. Having seen almost a year of his work, I have seen no improvement at all. Total lack of discipline, no in game meaningful adjustments.

I'm still under the impression most people here don't know what a "in game adjustment" is, and they just echo the circlejerk of the board. According to Bearcat Banter the problem with out team lies completely in coaching and we hired a dud.

Exactly. I don't care what the 247 rankings say, this talent doesn't even match up to some of our teams from the 90s. I'd take the talent on the roster on the 1997 team over the 2017 team. Those who were around remember:

-Chad Plummer over Hayden Moore
-Love to have Daryl Royal, Robert Cooper or Landen Smith in this backfield (admit the young guys Doaks and Warren have potential to be special but they are not there yet)
- WR-- Jason Collins Baker and Cornelius Bonner would be top guys if added to this crew
TE- Cogswell couldn't hold Rodrick Monroe's jock.
OL- Can't recall the OL that year, I think Fabini was gone by then... maybe Rosfeld was still around but he was better than what we got now by a mile.
Defense- Hassan Champion, Philip Curry, Brad Jackson, Artrell Hawkins, Tinker Keck... yep all better than their current counterparts
Special Teams- Tinker Keck (enough said)

Jeesus, reading those names (in a thick Rick Minter accent) had me nostalgic there for a minute and hearing "take a bend not break approach" and other Minter faves.

This squad right now is very low on talent. I'm a bit shocked at how negative people are in year one of a new coaching regime which was left with a cupboard half empty and half filled with rot. Next year will be much more telling just as it was with Butchy. Hopefully a nice uptick to a respectable record next season and then year three is when we start really competing again.
 
11-20-2017 10:11 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 09:35 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  They had an interesting quote in the Enquirer this morning where Fickell somewhat called out his Seniors. I'm thinking this is a lot like the 2010 season, look for a big improvement next year.

Who would have thought our ST would have gotten worse when we actually added a coach?

Very few special teams coaches in the country have the necessary knowledge to make the visible parts of ST (kicking/punting) better, and the ones that do are not pretty obvious. The coverage schemes have been much better though, that much can be on DR being a good add who knows how to instill gap integrity and contain dynamics in KOC/PC.

I had a college coach recently ask me how I turned a backup midfielder into a D2 kicker and an offensive tackle into a D1 caliber punter at my high school...when I responded with "I actually know how to do what they're doing" he straight up told me that I'm the first he's ever met in 30 years of coaching. There just are not a lot of knowledgeable coaches when it comes to kicking dynamics who are employed on staffs, because a majority of the people with that knowledge are either former players with enough money to not want to deal with the crap OR people who aren't given respect because they never played the game. Luckily my HC understood that my ability to kick a 60-yarder on a warm day coupled with 4 years of college soccer and a willingness to work my ass off to understand the aspects of the game I hadn't picked up previously was worth it, and gave me a shot 5 years ago. Now things are definitely looking up in multiple areas on the coaching side, but unfortunately many coaches DON'T see the potential positive there.

Moral of the story, most ST Coaches don't know a lick about kicking so they can't really improve their people...but they do know schemes and we've been much better there. Just look at our net punt and net KO yardages this year versus the last few.
 
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2017 11:15 AM by BearcatMan.)
11-20-2017 11:11 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 11:11 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 09:35 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  They had an interesting quote in the Enquirer this morning where Fickell somewhat called out his Seniors. I'm thinking this is a lot like the 2010 season, look for a big improvement next year.

Who would have thought our ST would have gotten worse when we actually added a coach?

Very few special teams coaches in the country have the necessary knowledge to make the visible parts of ST (kicking/punting) better, and the ones that do are not pretty obvious. The coverage schemes have been much better though, that much can be on DR being a good add who knows how to instill gap integrity and contain dynamics in KOC/PC.

I had a college coach recently ask me how I turned a backup midfielder into a D2 kicker and an offensive tackle into a D1 caliber punter at my high school...when I responded with "I actually know how to do what they're doing" he straight up told me that I'm the first he's ever met in 30 years of coaching. There just are not a lot of knowledgeable coaches when it comes to kicking dynamics who are employed on staffs, because a majority of the people with that knowledge are either former players with enough money to not want to deal with the crap OR people who aren't given respect because they never played the game. Luckily my HC understood that my ability to kick a 60-yarder on a warm day coupled with 4 years of college soccer and a willingness to work my ass off to understand the aspects of the game I hadn't picked up previously was worth it, and gave me a shot 5 years ago. Now things are definitely looking up in multiple areas on the coaching side, but unfortunately many coaches DON'T see the potential positive there.

Moral of the story, most ST Coaches don't know a lick about kicking so they can't really improve their people...but they do know schemes and we've been much better there. Just look at our net punt and net KO yardages this year versus the last few.

Always appreciate having our resident special teams expert on Bearcat Banter. Thanks for the insight.
 
11-20-2017 11:21 AM
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crex043 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-19-2017 07:26 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  What's the metric for determining better?

I imagine it would be similar to the metrics that doss used to kick this thread off.
 
11-20-2017 11:22 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #30
RE: Will 2018 be better?
(11-20-2017 11:21 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 11:11 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(11-20-2017 09:35 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  They had an interesting quote in the Enquirer this morning where Fickell somewhat called out his Seniors. I'm thinking this is a lot like the 2010 season, look for a big improvement next year.

Who would have thought our ST would have gotten worse when we actually added a coach?

Very few special teams coaches in the country have the necessary knowledge to make the visible parts of ST (kicking/punting) better, and the ones that do are not pretty obvious. The coverage schemes have been much better though, that much can be on DR being a good add who knows how to instill gap integrity and contain dynamics in KOC/PC.

I had a college coach recently ask me how I turned a backup midfielder into a D2 kicker and an offensive tackle into a D1 caliber punter at my high school...when I responded with "I actually know how to do what they're doing" he straight up told me that I'm the first he's ever met in 30 years of coaching. There just are not a lot of knowledgeable coaches when it comes to kicking dynamics who are employed on staffs, because a majority of the people with that knowledge are either former players with enough money to not want to deal with the crap OR people who aren't given respect because they never played the game. Luckily my HC understood that my ability to kick a 60-yarder on a warm day coupled with 4 years of college soccer and a willingness to work my ass off to understand the aspects of the game I hadn't picked up previously was worth it, and gave me a shot 5 years ago. Now things are definitely looking up in multiple areas on the coaching side, but unfortunately many coaches DON'T see the potential positive there.

Moral of the story, most ST Coaches don't know a lick about kicking so they can't really improve their people...but they do know schemes and we've been much better there. Just look at our net punt and net KO yardages this year versus the last few.

Always appreciate having our resident special teams expert on Bearcat Banter. Thanks for the insight.

Agreed... maybe Fick needs to give the guy a call. #Just sayin
 
11-20-2017 11:23 AM
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