(11-27-2017 06:44 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  When Bailiff first came here, we got a number of regular transfers. Many turned out to be strong players and valuable contributors (Sam McGuffie a prime example).
But the well ran dry the last 4-5 years. A new coach would probably reverse that trend.

In Bailiff's first few years, I was quite positively impressed with his recruiting. I didn't see much of a plan beyond recruit better, and for that reason I thought the ceiling was pretty low. I thought there was enough talent in the house that with a coach who could develop more in the way of scheme and execution and focus, we could do pretty well. 2012-14 suggested that there was in fact talent here. But I think 2012-14 was Bailiff's ceiling. I just don't think he can do better than that with the best recruiting he can do. The EZF was supposed to help recruit better and resolve some facility limitations. Since it has been in place, the trajectory has been straight downhill. Recruiting has not improved. It's as if the attitude was, "We've won a conference championship, now we can rest on our laurels." Well, we don't have much in the way of laurels to rest on.

I wonder if length of tenure is a double edge sword

The positive is that a coaching candidate knows it’s not win or else. If rice gave bailiff 11!years than I think candidates will know that a plausible trajectory and a long term .500 type record gives them lifetime employment

The negative is that the duration of his mediocrity kind of screams that we don’t care at all about winning and candidates will worry that resources won’t be adequate to win

So we probably want a climber like Fuentes but are likely to get a coaster like Coker

(11-27-2017 08:47 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I wonder if length of tenure is a double edge sword
The positive is that a coaching candidate knows it’s not win or else. If rice gave bailiff 11!years than I think candidates will know that a plausible trajectory and a long term .500 type record gives them lifetime employment
The negative is that the duration of his mediocrity kind of screams that we don’t care at all about winning and candidates will worry that resources won’t be adequate to win
So we probably want a climber like Fuentes but are likely to get a coaster like Coker

To get a climber, we probably have to catch him way early. That involves a lot of risk. But I think we can hedge the risk a bit by asking what does it take to win at Rice. We're not going to win by out-recruiting everybody else. A coach whose success is built on recruiting probably doesn't work. We need a coach who has not only been successful, but has been successful doing things the way Rice has to do them--recruit as well as possible (nobody wins without recruiting well) but then focus on scheme and development and execution as the differentiators.

We need someone who has been successful with a philosophical approach the can work at Rice. That second part is the hard one. I think guys who have succeeded as coordinators at service academies fit that mold (we aren't paying enough to hire head coaches away from them). I think an up and coming coordinator in a program that has exceeded expectations fits. I think a hire like ruowls just might be unconventional enough to work. But those are the kinds of places where we need to look.

David Bailiff came to us advertised as one of the creators of the TCU defense. He was DC at TCU when they started developing it, but I think subsequent events have revealed that he is not the defensive guru that we had hoped for. He had one excellent year at Texas State, but that may have been more due to Barrick Nealy than anything else. Success built on recruiting a singular unique talent is probably not the way to go at Rice. Bailiff was also 5-6 one year with Nealy, and fell back to 5-6 the year after Nealy graduated. The last part is what troubled me. The first year he was replacing Manny Matsakis, probably best described as a Todd Graham who didn't win, and that experience probably made him an attractive hire at the time. But by the third year he should have had his program pretty well in place, and that fall-off always bothered me. And now I see why.

(11-27-2017 08:47 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  The positive is that a coaching candidate knows it’s not win or else. If rice gave bailiff 11!years than I think candidates will know that a plausible trajectory and a long term .500 type record gives them lifetime employment

I think just the opposite. I think the Next Guy will be a subscriber to the Win Now philosophy (Toad) rather than the Build A Program philosophy (Bailiff, Hatfield). He will want to build a reputatiion and get out while the getting is good. I think if a guy subscribes to losing a few in order to build for the future and is comfortable with that because he thinks he has decade or so of paychecks in his back pocket, he will be exactly the guy you all think Bailiff is, and that is exactly the guy we do not need at this point. We need the ER doc, not the pain management doc.

The question will be who will be the manager who keeps Coach WinNow reined in so we don't end up with probation and/or disciplinary problems and/or academic problems. Will JK provide that?

agree on climber v. coaster.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BruceFeldmanC...03329?s=17

(11-27-2017 09:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 08:47 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  The positive is that a coaching candidate knows it’s not win or else. If rice gave bailiff 11!years than I think candidates will know that a plausible trajectory and a long term .500 type record gives them lifetime employment

I think just the opposite. I think the Next Guy will be a subscriber to the Win Now philosophy (Toad) rather than the Build A Program philosophy (Bailiff, Hatfield). He will want to build a reputatiion and get out while the getting is good. I think if a guy subscribes to losing a few in order to build for the future and is comfortable with that because he thinks he has decade or so of paychecks in his back pocket, he will be exactly the guy you all think Bailiff is, and that is exactly the guy we do not need at this point. We need the ER doc, not the pain management doc.

The question will be who will be the manager who keeps Coach WinNow reined in so we don't end up with probation and/or disciplinary problems and/or academic problems. Will JK provide that?

agree on climber v. coaster.

A win now and build for the future philosophy are not mutually exclusive. One can and should desire to do both.

(11-27-2017 09:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 08:47 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  The positive is that a coaching candidate knows it’s not win or else. If rice gave bailiff 11!years than I think candidates will know that a plausible trajectory and a long term .500 type record gives them lifetime employment

I think just the opposite. I think the Next Guy will be a subscriber to the Win Now philosophy (Toad) rather than the Build A Program philosophy (Bailiff, Hatfield). He will want to build a reputatiion and get out while the getting is good. I think if a guy subscribes to losing a few in order to build for the future and is comfortable with that because he thinks he has decade or so of paychecks in his back pocket, he will be exactly the guy you all think Bailiff is, and that is exactly the guy we do not need at this point. We need the ER doc, not the pain management doc.
The question will be who will be the manager who keeps Coach WinNow reined in so we don't end up with probation and/or disciplinary problems and/or academic problems. Will JK provide that?
agree on climber v. coaster.

The problem with Bailiff is that he didn't build a program. When years 9, 10, and 11 are 5-7, 3-9, and 1-11, that's the sign of not having a program in place. We need a program builder who will actually build a program.

Quote:Bruce Feldman‏Verified account
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SOURCES: #Rice will dismiss head coach David Bailiff today. He'd coached there since 2007.

Fingers crossed.

(11-27-2017 09:20 AM)Traveler413 Wrote:  https://mobile.twitter.com/BruceFeldmanC...03329?s=17

ok, so we finally got confirmation, essentially

excited to see what happens next. literally nowhere to go but up

Thresher tweeted. Bailiff out.

(11-27-2017 09:33 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

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SOURCES: #Rice will dismiss head coach David Bailiff today. He'd coached there since 2007.

Fingers crossed.

This change had to be made. However, this is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic without other changes by the administration.

Now let's not wait a month to name a new coach. Now sure why this had to wait until Monday morning, as I suspect both JK and Bailiff had this discussion several weeks ago. One would hope JK and Rick Mello have been quietly engaging in the search for the past couple weeks anyway.

(11-27-2017 09:41 AM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 09:40 AM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 08:05 PM)ruowls Wrote:  

(11-26-2017 07:11 PM)RiceOwl53 Wrote:  We should recruit more JUCO players.

Why?
They are academic liabilities and don’t do much on the field.

I was a JUCO transfer. Your kind of thinking is what’s wrong with Rice. Don’t want to rock boat for the institution to put yourself in a good position to win. My JUCO team would have beaten every Rice team from 2010 to present.

Think it was sarcasm. Ruowls was too I believe.

I realized that. Haha my bad. I deleted the comment.

(11-27-2017 09:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 09:14 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 08:47 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  The positive is that a coaching candidate knows it’s not win or else. If rice gave bailiff 11!years than I think candidates will know that a plausible trajectory and a long term .500 type record gives them lifetime employment

I think just the opposite. I think the Next Guy will be a subscriber to the Win Now philosophy (Toad) rather than the Build A Program philosophy (Bailiff, Hatfield). He will want to build a reputatiion and get out while the getting is good. I think if a guy subscribes to losing a few in order to build for the future and is comfortable with that because he thinks he has decade or so of paychecks in his back pocket, he will be exactly the guy you all think Bailiff is, and that is exactly the guy we do not need at this point. We need the ER doc, not the pain management doc.
The question will be who will be the manager who keeps Coach WinNow reined in so we don't end up with probation and/or disciplinary problems and/or academic problems. Will JK provide that?
agree on climber v. coaster.

The problem with Bailiff is that he didn't build a program. When years 9, 10, and 11 are 5-7, 3-9, and 1-11, that's the sign of not having a program in place. We need a program builder who will actually build a program.

And the latter part is the crap shoot. DB did come in and do things the right way in terms of who he recruited, how he treated players, etc, but he just wasn't up to the task.

Reading some personal anecdotes players posted about DB over the weekend, it was pretty clear why a lot of them came to Rice to play for DB and why a handful of them signed that stupid letter that kept him around.

I'm happy that we'll be moving forward, will be throwing all of my weight behind the new coach, but man I wish DB could have been a better coach and won more games.

(11-27-2017 09:40 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 09:33 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

Quote:Bruce Feldman‏Verified account
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SOURCES: #Rice will dismiss head coach David Bailiff today. He'd coached there since 2007.

Fingers crossed.

This change had to be made. However, this is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic without other changes by the administration.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this statement. Sure, it would be helpful if additional resources can be put to use, but a new coach and coaching staff can have a dramatic positive impact...and we've seen this time and time again.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017...id-Bailiff[/quote]

Quote:Among the candidates expected to get consideration for the Rice vacancy are Stanford defensive coordinator Lance Anderson as well as Cardinal offensive coordinator Mike Bloomgren and South Carolina OC Kurt Roper, a former Owls player.

(11-27-2017 09:42 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:   Now let's not wait a month to name a new coach. Now sure why this had to wait until Monday morning, as I suspect both JK and Bailiff had this discussion several weeks ago. One would hope JK and Rick Mello have been quietly engaging in the search for the past couple weeks anyway.

Crossing my fingers they waited because they wanted to have everything set up for a firing/retirement announcement that segues into a hiring announcement.

Looks like this board should be happy with the change. I'm interested to see who the candidates are.

Any speculation as to who will interview? I'd hope you at least call Drew Mehringer, and also Doug Meacham. Not saying either would be a homerun, but they both have potential

(11-27-2017 09:44 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 09:40 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  

(11-27-2017 09:33 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

Quote:Bruce Feldman‏Verified account
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SOURCES: #Rice will dismiss head coach David Bailiff today. He'd coached there since 2007.

Fingers crossed.

This change had to be made. However, this is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic without other changes by the administration.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with this statement. Sure, it would be helpful if additional resources can be put to use, but a new coach and coaching staff can have a dramatic positive impact...and we've seen this time and time again.

You said in another post: "A win now and build for the future philosophy are not mutually exclusive. One can and should desire to do both."

Yes, a change can have an immediate impact. I think the right coach can come in and get this group to a bowl game (for that's worth to those around here).

However, long term consistent success that is sought will not occur without other changes happening. I think the last few decades show that.

(11-27-2017 09:45 AM)Traveler413 Wrote:  https://www.si.com/college-football/2017...id-Bailiff

Quote:Among the candidates expected to get consideration for the Rice vacancy are Stanford defensive coordinator Lance Anderson as well as Cardinal offensive coordinator Mike Bloomgren and South Carolina OC Kurt Roper, a former Owls player.

[/quote]

Superficially those are very good candidates to be looking at. Finding coaches who have dealt with academically rigorous programs before is a good idea as they at least know what they are getting into.