Dylan
All American
Posts: 2,628
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 120
I Root For:
Location:
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-11-2017 09:21 AM)Stammers Wrote: (11-10-2017 11:24 PM)memtigbb Wrote: (11-10-2017 10:34 PM)Stammers Wrote: It isn't a lazy excuse. IF Geron Johnson and Joe Jackson shoot as well their senior seasons as they did their junior seasons, we would have been a Sweet 16 team in 2014. The difference between then and now is that Geron and JJ both showed that they could shoot a lot better, none of the guys on our roster have.
1 explanation for their shooting woes... losing Damon. Damon had them only shooting 3s off the pass with their feet set. Once he left, you had both taking shots off the dribble. Pastner was too clueless to see the problem and never corrected it.
Another problem I have with this statement is, defense killed us worse than offense. If we were not playing ole defense most of the game, then our scoring would have been fine.
I thought we played better than expected. Jucos are going to have a huge challenge from the schoolwork and rigorous demands from practice and weight training, lifestyle changes.
It isn't possible to teach 8 new guys how to play defense as a unit, learn all the plays and to know intuitively where they should be at both ends of the floor. Easily the most confused of the bunch was Thornton. Thornton isn't explosive like Davenport, but he is more athletic than Parks and is coordinated and I think skilled.
Obviously, we don't like seeing the team lose, but when a team has 1 juco, that player usually takes a long time to figure things out, usually not before their second season. When you have a team with so many new players it is going to take almost the entire season.
By the end of the year we are going to look much different than we do now. Having said that, IF Tubby had a true above average D1 point guard and/or at least one player that could light it up from outside, it would make all of our players look a lot better.
I hate that almost everyone is throwing in the towel after one game; it's one damn game, give the players a chance.
It’d be different if it was all freshmen. It’s not.
Also, the excuse kind of falls apart when you look at who Alabama played with last night. We weren’t exactly going against a seasoned team at full strength with defined roles.
|
|
11-11-2017 11:02 AM |
|
ddramone
All American
Posts: 4,243
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 159
I Root For:
Location:
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-10-2017 10:52 PM)chrisd11 Wrote: (11-10-2017 10:33 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote: This isn't complicated. We have no talent. A full strength Alabama team would have beaten us by 30.
It really IS this simple
We'll scrap together 17 or 18 wins because 70% of our schedule is against the dregs of Division 1. And a lot of posters here will buy into the myth that we are really improving, and next year will be our year. But this level of talent will never win at a high level, will never advance in the tournament, and as long as Grandpa Tubbs is at the helm the talent level will never get better.
All we are doing is spinning our wheels, buying time until his buyout is low enough to send him on his way and hire someone who actually wants to be great, make our program great and win at a high level against high level programs. As opposed to a lazy has-been who takes the easy way out and recruits Jucos while collecting a 3 million dollar paycheck.
Not to thread hijack, but gosh this sounds a lot like Tommy West's last years here.
|
|
11-11-2017 11:05 AM |
|
Latilleon
Git Buck.
Posts: 21,611
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 473
I Root For: Memphis
Location:
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-10-2017 10:03 PM)450bench Wrote: (11-10-2017 10:00 PM)Tgrrfan Wrote: Tigers vs. Alabama - CA
Quote:
The biggest problem? Memphis can’t shoot. "We just couldn’t make shots," said head coach Tubby Smith. "We had a lot of trouble getting the ball in the basket."
O.K. all you Pastner bashers, let Tubby have it. This is the same "excuse" Pastner used.
You're right. And I was one of those. I'm a broken record tonight, but to not attack the basket in light of all the foul issues was simply shocking.
(04-13-2016 12:01 PM)Latilleon Wrote: If the plan is to set up Penny for the job in the future, having a head coach like Tubby Smith actually would be a good idea. Especially if Penny would be the one getting the recruits.
If it's just Tubby; aww hell nah!
|
|
11-11-2017 11:33 AM |
|
Mimi
Who farted??
Posts: 29,067
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 754
I Root For: reasonableness
Location: Memphis mostly
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
More than cannot shoot I think the idea is that we do not have enough shooters.
When Alabama was in big foul trouble our kids did take advantage and get to the line. I believe they started something like 11/21 at the line. Cannot expect 100% but 15 or 16 of 21, a reasonably good percentage, with all else being equal would have led to a 12-13 point Memphis lead instead of 8.
Lack of making any threes for so long in spite of some looks amplified that. Makes it so hard to score and keeps it closer. Better SHOOTERS would have meant same game had Memphis up around 15, and then even with Alabama's bigger team, may have been enough.
This may change, but simply did not show enough talent last night, such that when Bama made four threes over about a two minute stretch early in the second, a basically tie game blew up to a ten point deficit and that was essentially it.
SHOOTERS, not shooting. Lower overall talent that will improve as more adjust to D1 defense, but this is a far cry from even as recent as 2014, with kids like Joe Jackson, Austin Nichols, Shaq Goodwin and Chris Crawford, let alone teams half a decade before that with Rose, CD-R and company.
The likely only possibility to salvage this is a select few of these kids make improvements, and a few studs are added. Otherwise I agree this will be several more years of mediocre play. We ran a coach out of town after two down years, and today it is a notch below that. As of now.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2017 12:43 PM by Mimi.)
|
|
11-11-2017 12:42 PM |
|
cotton1991
Heisman
Posts: 9,665
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 301
I Root For: Memphis
Location: MasonCity North Iowa
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-10-2017 10:34 PM)Stammers Wrote: It isn't a lazy excuse. IF Geron Johnson and Joe Jackson shoot as well their senior seasons as they did their junior seasons, we would have been a Sweet 16 team in 2014. The difference between then and now is that Geron and JJ both showed that they could shoot a lot better, none of the guys on our roster have.
That 2013-14 team was a lot of fun to watch though ultimately disappointing. It felt like the last team that was really Tiger basketball, at least to me.
That conference tourney defeat to UConn marked the end of something in retrospect. That Nov. 2014 embarrassing opening blowout at Sioux Falls SD against Wichita seemed like it marked the beginning of our current slide.
As luck would have it, due to time and distance those two games are the only Tiger basketball games I have seen in the last five years, lol, since the Cusa tourney in 2012.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2017 05:12 PM by cotton1991.)
|
|
11-11-2017 05:10 PM |
|
misplaced tiger
1st String
Posts: 1,702
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 111
I Root For:
Location:
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
The problem is that these coaches can’t recruit top 25 talent.
|
|
11-11-2017 05:27 PM |
|
snowtiger
Hall of Flamers
Posts: 33,451
Joined: Mar 2011
Reputation: 3730
I Root For: W's!!!
Location: Cascade Volcanic Arc
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
Maybe they just don't want top 25 talent.
You have to get players to buy-in to where you put them, and what you want them to do, even if it means playing out of position and risking injury.
It's more time consuming, too.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2017 12:49 AM by snowtiger.)
|
|
11-11-2017 05:35 PM |
|
mairving
Ignant Homer
Posts: 28,603
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 1448
I Root For: Memphis
Location: MediocreVille
|
Column from Geoff Calkins
I was thinking last night as I watched the game that we have the same talent level of some of those low level teams we used to curb stomp in years past.
There isn't a conference in the NCAA we could win. May not be a conference we could finish second or third in either.
|
|
11-11-2017 05:48 PM |
|
hsvtiger
All American
Posts: 4,716
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 254
I Root For: Tina
Location: 22milesouttaPasadena
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-11-2017 05:48 PM)mairving Wrote: I was thinking last night as I watched the game that we have the same talent level of some of those low level teams we used to curb stomp in years past.
There isn't a conference in the NCAA we could win. May not be a conference we could finish second or third in either.
I think we could take the SWAC.
|
|
11-11-2017 08:22 PM |
|
ShilohTiger
Special Teams
Posts: 931
Joined: Apr 2009
Reputation: 74
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location:
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-10-2017 11:08 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote: (11-10-2017 10:52 PM)chrisd11 Wrote: (11-10-2017 10:33 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote: This isn't complicated. We have no talent. A full strength Alabama team would have beaten us by 30.
It really IS this simple
We'll scrap together 17 or 18 wins because 70% of our schedule is against the dregs of Division 1. And a lot of posters here will buy into the myth that we are really improving, and next year will be our year. But this level of talent will never win at a high level, will never advance in the tournament, and as long as Grandpa Tubbs is at the helm the talent level will never get better.
All we are doing is spinning our wheels, buying time until his buyout is low enough to send him on his way and hire someone who actually wants to be great, make our program great and win at a high level against high level programs. As opposed to a lazy has-been who takes the easy way out and recruits Jucos while collecting a 3 million dollar paycheck.
No way this team wins anywhere near 17 games. I'm thinking more like 11-12 wins.
Yep
|
|
11-11-2017 11:55 PM |
|
Tiger1983
BBA
Posts: 35,448
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation: 2075
I Root For: Tigers - GTG!
Location: The enemy’s lair
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-11-2017 05:35 PM)snowtiger Wrote: Maybe they just don't want top 25 talent.
You have to get players to buy-in to where you put them, and what you want them to do, even if it means playing out of position and risking injury.
It's more time consuming, too.
It tends to be harder and more stressful managing top 100 quality talent. The easier path chosen by Tubby is recruiting good guys with limited talent and “coach them up”. The results are ok for Minn and Tx Tech perhaps (one NCAA Tourney win in ten years and two losing records half of the past four years), but unacceptable at Memphis (IMO).
|
|
11-12-2017 10:11 AM |
|
poppaslaw
Social Credit Score - 0
Posts: 12,129
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation: 1339
I Root For: CHY-NAH
Location: ГУЛАГ Memphis
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-12-2017 10:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: (11-11-2017 05:35 PM)snowtiger Wrote: Maybe they just don't want top 25 talent.
You have to get players to buy-in to where you put them, and what you want them to do, even if it means playing out of position and risking injury.
It's more time consuming, too.
It tends to be harder and more stressful managing top 100 quality talent. The easier path chosen by Tubby is recruiting good guys with limited talent and “coach them up”. The results are ok for Minn and Tx Tech perhaps (one NCAA Tourney win in ten years and two losing records half of the past four years), but unacceptable at Memphis (IMO).
"Any time you're adding talent, there's hope,” he said. “I come back to: Talent doesn't guarantee you win, but bad players is going to guarantee you losing. That's just how it is. If you tell me there's a guy out there that says, 'Well, I like to coach 'em up,' well, you go coach 'em up, and let me go get talented guys." -John Calipari
|
|
11-12-2017 10:19 AM |
|
Tiger1983
BBA
Posts: 35,448
Joined: Apr 2006
Reputation: 2075
I Root For: Tigers - GTG!
Location: The enemy’s lair
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-12-2017 10:19 AM)poppaslaw Wrote: (11-12-2017 10:11 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: (11-11-2017 05:35 PM)snowtiger Wrote: Maybe they just don't want top 25 talent.
You have to get players to buy-in to where you put them, and what you want them to do, even if it means playing out of position and risking injury.
It's more time consuming, too.
It tends to be harder and more stressful managing top 100 quality talent. The easier path chosen by Tubby is recruiting good guys with limited talent and “coach them up”. The results are ok for Minn and Tx Tech perhaps (one NCAA Tourney win in ten years and two losing records half of the past four years), but unacceptable at Memphis (IMO).
"Any time you're adding talent, there's hope,” he said. “I come back to: Talent doesn't guarantee you win, but bad players is going to guarantee you losing. That's just how it is. If you tell me there's a guy out there that says, 'Well, I like to coach 'em up,' well, you go coach 'em up, and let me go get talented guys." -John Calipari
Required reading....
|
|
11-12-2017 11:00 AM |
|
mapdude
Enthusiastically Ambivalant
Posts: 8,356
Joined: Mar 2005
Reputation: 197
I Root For: U of Memphis
Location: Memphis
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
Tiger basketball has fallen way down my priority list. I will not agonize over this team being good or bad. It will be what it will be. Nothing I can control so it will be just another billboard I pass on the interstate until they get their crap together and start earning some respect in the basketball world.
|
|
11-12-2017 07:59 PM |
|
tigergg
Heisman
Posts: 6,083
Joined: Sep 2005
Reputation: 166
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Millington
|
RE: Column from Geoff Calkins
(11-12-2017 07:59 PM)mapdude Wrote: Tiger basketball has fallen way down my priority list. I will not agonize over this team being good or bad. It will be what it will be. Nothing I can control so it will be just another billboard I pass on the interstate until they get their crap together and start earning some respect in the basketball world.
Yep
|
|
11-12-2017 08:00 PM |
|