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This thread has nothing to do with tonight's game. Happy for the seniors to go out with a win in their last game at home.

That said, I've wanted to, for some time now, get us engaged in substantive discussion on the future of the G5 conferences and the football programs.

There's been a lot of flaming in other threads about other sports at WMU that do have a legitimate chance to win national championship. WMU may never likely see a national championship or chance to win one in football, ever.

Something will eventually have to give in the FBS and I hope it is sooner rather than later. Why even compete when the high water mark for your program is a conference title and a sometime-around-Christmas bowl win?

Our program stirred a lot of conversation last year, much more so than did NIU in 2012 and I think the conversation needs to continue.

If bball tourney was only 4 teams would you pose the same question? Only reason bball had a "legitimate shot" at a natty is because the tourney is 68 teams.

In my opinion it all depends on the direction the playoff takes. If they expand with conference champions getting in, and the MAC was included, I say no need to drop. Without some kind of expansion though, there is no way the MAC ever plays in the playoff making the discussion of dropping to FCS more appealing.

The common opinion seems to be that the playoff is bound to expand. If that happens and the G5 is included, even just a single G5 spot, then there is no need to go anywhere.

As it is the Cotton Bowl run brought us more attention than any FCS national championship would, assuming we would even be a regular contender for championships at that level (not a given).

We compete at the highest level in every sport. Football shouldn't be any different.

This!

dropping down would be a bad move IMHO

In terms of realistic options, I think that the playoff will eventually open to 8 teams. If the G5 doesn't get a guaranteed slot, then creating a new division of football is probably necessary. If it never open to 8, then the committee needs to change the way they think about G5's and what they are.

Lets suppose that the MAC as a whole commits to football, spends the money and creates a level of competition higher than the AAC, I still don't think the committee gives the credit to the conference because of the perception of G5. I don't think that the MAC will raise itself that high. As a fan I hope that it would but just spending the money and hoping is a great way to end up with no football program when the return on that investment doesn't come back.

IMO, the G5 conferences have already dropped. The gap between the groups of conferences is widening. The fact that the MAC has to prostitute itself, mid-week games, in the name of exposure is a great example. As a result of largely empty venues, the casual fan perception of the MAC, and Sun Belt for that matter, has decreased. Watching last night's game, I was saddened to think that would be the Seniors last experience at Waldo.

No, but a G5 4 team tourney would be fun.

(11-09-2017 01:10 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  As it is the Cotton Bowl run brought us more attention than any FCS national championship would, assuming we would even be a regular contender for championships at that level (not a given).

It honestly doesn't bother me if the MAC never sends someone to the FBS 4-team playoff and, therefore, a national championship.

While achieving an NY6 bowl is not the whole enchilada, it still beats a championship at a lower level.

(11-09-2017 09:49 AM)Chibronco Wrote:  No, but a G5 4 team tourney would be fun.

But it would essentially wipe out the G5 access to the NY6 bowl. Not worth it.

I can understand the intrigue of the idea. But using 2016 as an example, I'd much rather play Wisconsin in the Cotton Bowl, as opposed to playing Navy and USF in some 4-team G5 bracket.

(11-09-2017 09:49 AM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  The fact that the MAC has to prostitute itself, mid-week games, in the name of exposure is a great example.

I generally agree in principle here. Despite the slight uptick in television exposure, it feels like we're at the kiddie table in November, while the 'adults' play their football on Saturdays.

There's nothing really to be gained from dropping down.

You think fan support is bad now? Imagine when we announce that we're dropping down a division. The stands would be empty. Recruiting dries up. Look at what's happening to Idaho. Our biggest crowds at Waldo in recent memory came against visiting P5 teams. MSU in 2015 (30,855). Indiana in 2007 (32,129). Drop down a level and those types of games never happen again.

It would basically be admitting that we're not big time and we don't want to be. It's amateurish.

There’s an idea have been pondering for a while in regards to FBS football. Would the overall G5 be better off with less teams? Here’s what I see in the MAC. It has an advantage of lower travel costs compared to other G5 conferences but it also has a congested recruiting footprint. There are only so many G5 level players in the MAC footprint to recruit. Would the MAC be better off splitting the talent pool 10 ways instead of 12 ways? Would dropping two of the three worst football programs (use your imagination) actually help because the best players from those teams would add depth and more talent to the remaining 10 programs? What are your thoughts?

(11-09-2017 12:24 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  There’s an idea have been pondering for a while in regards to FBS football. Would the overall G5 be better off with less teams? Here’s what I see in the MAC. It has an advantage of lower travel costs compared to other G5 conferences but it also has a congested recruiting footprint. There are only so many G5 level players in the MAC footprint to recruit. Would the MAC be better off splitting the talent pool 10 ways instead of 12 ways? Would dropping two of the three worst football programs (use your imagination) actually help because the best players from those teams would add depth and more talent to the remaining 10 programs? What are your thoughts?

Honestly wouldn't make much of a difference. Big Ten already swallows up all the good recruits. There are a few that fall through the cracks to a MAC school. Corey Davis. Antonio Brown. Khalil Mack. But those kinds of players are rare. The vast majority of MAC rosters are pretty average to sub-par players. And dropping the two worst teams is not going to make any of the other teams any better. Do we really want Kent's recruits?

Not to mention it would be a huge dick move to just kick out the current under-performing program. The MAC goes in cycles. Kent is terrible now, but just a few years ago they were ranked and in the MACC. The only team that hasn't been to the championship game in the last 15 years is EMU, and they seem to be turning things around now.

The MAC goes in cycles, yes, but programs like Kent, Akron, Buffalo, EMU are still pretty consistent under performers. Moments in the sun, sure, but those are few and far between.

Waldo attendance on a Saturday would match last nights if this happened. Kiss away any ESPN, CBS exposure for G5

No advantage for WMU dropping down at this time and the P5 schools will determine what happens to G5 anyway.

There are however some low level G5 teams that should drop. Conference leaders have allowed several teams to stay when they continue to miss G5 & conference minimum standards.

NCAA isn't the only horse in town, there is also the NAIA.

(11-09-2017 09:15 AM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  IMO, the G5 conferences have already dropped. The gap between the groups of conferences is widening.

I don't know that it's so much that the gap between the groups of conferences is widening as much as the gap between the powerhouse schools (Bama, Auburn, Oklahoma, etc.) and everyone else is widening. The reality is many P5 teams have no more a legitimate chance at winning a national championship than does a MAC team. Yes, a P5 technically has a clearer path to a national championship, but their probability of getting there is essentially the same as ours.

So if the basis of dropping to FCS is not having a legitimate shot at an FBS national championship, then 80% of FBS schools - G5 and P5 - might as well drop.

(11-09-2017 12:23 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  It would basically be admitting that we're not big time and we don't want to be. It's amateurish.

So much this.

It is a TERRIBLE idea for so many reasons (many already stated in this thread) to even consider such a ridiculous thought.

Many casual fans at games already think we are on the same level as GVSU, Ferris, etc. They don’t even realize those schools are two divisions down. People are idiots but that’s the reality.

I’d take a FCS National Title over some lame bowl win any day of the week. The entire bowl system is a total joke and needs to be overhauled or just abolished. Even the Cotton Bowl was pretty much meaningless in the grand scheme of the football playoffs last year.

Imagine if the Olympics was structured like the current FBS. It would essentially mean all teams or athletes could participate in the competitions but only teams or athletes from certain countries would be eligible for the medals.

It’s beyond stupid. Get out and get to a landscape where you have equal footing and fairness.