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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #11
RE: baseball hall of fame
He had one great (or maybe only very good) fWAR season - a 6.2 in 1983. Never came close that again, with several 4ish seasons. He was basically a good to very good pitcher for a long time; that's it.
11-16-2017 10:07 AM
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flyingswoosh Offline
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Post: #12
RE: baseball hall of fame
(11-16-2017 10:07 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  He had one great (or maybe only very good) fWAR season - a 6.2 in 1983. Never came close that again, with several 4ish seasons. He was basically a good to very good pitcher for a long time; that's it.

agree, I don't think he had nearly enough HOF caliber seasons to warrant election
11-16-2017 02:54 PM
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flyingswoosh Offline
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Post: #13
RE: baseball hall of fame
(11-16-2017 01:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  It's utterly amazing how many folks on FG slam Jack Morris. He was the #1 AL pitcher in the entire decade of the 80s by fWAR. Normally if you are the pitcher of the decade- you make the hall of fame.

he also made the most starts of that decade, which explains why he had the highest WAR. Clemens was third in WAR, despite making 158 fewer starts. Saberhagen was 6th and made 154 fewer. In fact, Blyleven made 332 starts; only 8 pitchers in the entire decade made more than 300 starts and five of them are in the top 14 in WAR.
11-16-2017 03:15 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: baseball hall of fame
(11-16-2017 03:15 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 01:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  It's utterly amazing how many folks on FG slam Jack Morris. He was the #1 AL pitcher in the entire decade of the 80s by fWAR. Normally if you are the pitcher of the decade- you make the hall of fame.

he also made the most starts of that decade, which explains why he had the highest WAR. Clemens was third in WAR, despite making 158 fewer starts. Saberhagen was 6th and made 154 fewer. In fact, Blyleven made 332 starts; only 8 pitchers in the entire decade made more than 300 starts and five of them are in the top 14 in WAR.

He made 1 more start than Steib but had over 100 more innings than him.

I've never seen a guy make folks so disgusted if he were to get elected to the HOF.
11-16-2017 03:44 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #15
RE: baseball hall of fame
A guy who can churn out hundreds of quality innings is absolutely the kind of guy you want on your team, but does it really make him elite? Is there an endurance number where you go from "really good for a long time" to "elite volume of effort"? Is this where we discuss guys like Phil Niekro and Gaylord Perry? (who also had multiple elite level seasons each)

Morris isn't close to those guys.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2017 04:02 PM by Brookes Owl.)
11-16-2017 04:01 PM
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flyingswoosh Offline
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Post: #16
RE: baseball hall of fame
(11-16-2017 03:44 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 03:15 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 01:25 AM)stever20 Wrote:  It's utterly amazing how many folks on FG slam Jack Morris. He was the #1 AL pitcher in the entire decade of the 80s by fWAR. Normally if you are the pitcher of the decade- you make the hall of fame.

he also made the most starts of that decade, which explains why he had the highest WAR. Clemens was third in WAR, despite making 158 fewer starts. Saberhagen was 6th and made 154 fewer. In fact, Blyleven made 332 starts; only 8 pitchers in the entire decade made more than 300 starts and five of them are in the top 14 in WAR.

He made 1 more start than Steib but had over 100 more innings than him.

I've never seen a guy make folks so disgusted if he were to get elected to the HOF.

So he was a better pitcher than Dave Stieb? That isn't news, nor does it really make him hall worthy
11-16-2017 04:09 PM
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flyingswoosh Offline
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Post: #17
RE: baseball hall of fame
(11-16-2017 04:01 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  A guy who can churn out hundreds of quality innings is absolutely the kind of guy you want on your team, but does it really make him elite? Is there an endurance number where you go from "really good for a long time" to "elite volume of effort"? Is this where we discuss guys like Phil Niekro and Gaylord Perry? (who also had multiple elite level seasons each)

Morris isn't close to those guys.

i lean more towards peak performance than longevity when considering a hall of fame resume. No idea how he can be elected before Mussina and Schilling.
11-16-2017 04:11 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #18
RE: baseball hall of fame
(11-16-2017 04:11 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:01 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  A guy who can churn out hundreds of quality innings is absolutely the kind of guy you want on your team, but does it really make him elite? Is there an endurance number where you go from "really good for a long time" to "elite volume of effort"? Is this where we discuss guys like Phil Niekro and Gaylord Perry? (who also had multiple elite level seasons each)

Morris isn't close to those guys.

i lean more towards peak performance than longevity when considering a hall of fame resume. No idea how he can be elected before Mussina and Schilling.

To me, Mussina is right on the margin - I can see the arguments both ways. Schilling? USA Today (of all places) said it best: He pitched his way into the Hall of Fame and talked his way out.
11-16-2017 04:19 PM
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Lush Online
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Post: #19
RE: baseball hall of fame
what a f*ckin' joke
12-11-2017 09:42 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: baseball hall of fame
sorry but I totally get Morris going into the Hall of Fame. He was the #1 pitcher of the 80's for the American League. If you are the top pitcher for a decade, you generally should be in the hall of fame. It's that simple.
12-11-2017 01:45 PM
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