(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Jay M. Youix Wrote:  Purple, i'm not responding to your novel, but yes... you're out of your mind if you think we can pay Houston $1M/year. but if you think it's so easy to raise that kind of money, by all means, get started on that. volunteer your time, your energy, set up a website, make some calls.... go! You make it sound easy, so i'd love to see it happen. go for it. that would be awesome.

OK, I offered you one way to raise money, substantial money. Since you are such a genius and I am out of my friggin' mind, please show me how that simple example is wrong. By all means, please show me where my simple example, that I came up with in ten seconds flat, is so wrong. Go ahead, I've got all week.

I know damned well we can pay Houston a million dollars a year if we want to! I'm not saying we will. God knows, if the board thinks like you, then we are relegated to the purgatory of playing Slippery Rocks forever.

However, if the powers that be have any imagination at all and a solid set of nuts, they will find the money.

"Volunteer your time, your energy, set up a website, make some calls." What BS! In reality, it is simpler than that. But, only if you ain't skeered.

While we are on this topic, I would like to make another point. My opponents in this debate have said that I am out of my friggin' mind suggesting we can pay Coach Houston a lot more because we are already paying at the top of FCS.

Here is my challenge to you. Forget that we are FCS. I know how hard that is to do for some people who just can't see the future, but for me, just this once, pretend that we are not FCS, that we are FBS, because, in fact, we are in transition. We are a fish out of water, a very large fish in a very small pond. It's amazing that fans from opposing schools can see this yet some people who are closest to JMU cannot. One recent post I recall on another school's message board said that JMU's stadium "screams Big Time."

He knew of which he spoke. We are a program in transition, waiting for the most ideal opportunity before we make the jump, but make the jump we will.

So, please, STOP all the nonsense about JMU being just an FCS school, thus we must pay our coach what an FCS coach would expect to make. Bullsh*t! Stinking thinking! Step out.

And, please, Jay M. Youix (what does that mean, anyway?), don't respond to my novel again by responding to my novel again. I tend to write long posts because I value clarity. I hope that is clear.

just checked. We're an FCS school with no FBS/Indy conference prospects in front of us, and have no business paying a head coach of any sport $1 Million. Double checked just to make sure, and yep we won't and shouldn't pay much more than 1/2 a million at any sport. We're a stepping stone for successful athletic staff.

Paying salaries, in coaching and in a general profession, is all about what the market pays and what the ROI is. Coach Houston is a great coach. The market of other FCS coaches shows that a $1 million salary would be more than double what the top of the market is. Then there's ROI. He could be worth more than $1 million to JMU, but I don't have the numbers to show either way. What I do know is that FCS ROI tends to be less than G5 football, so I'm not sure we're seeing that kind of return on a coach's salary.

Houston is making $375K base and $85K in incentives/bonuses for championships right? He received a 1 year extension and $75K raise last year. I believe the assistants received raises as well. I could see with another title a similar raise- $450- $500K base and a $100K bonus incentive clause where his total comp at JMU is $600K. Give the staff similar raises as last year as well. Total comp for football staff may be close to $1M. That would have to be at the top of FCS and in line with many G5 FBS programs. You always run the risk that he will leave for a 7 figure plus job but it closes the gap a little more.

(12-06-2017 06:08 AM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  Paying salaries, in coaching and in a general profession, is all about what the market pays and what the ROI is. Coach Houston is a great coach. The market of other FCS coaches shows that a $1 million salary would be more than double what the top of the market is. Then there's ROI. He could be worth more than $1 million to JMU, but I don't have the numbers to show either way. What I do know is that FCS ROI tends to be less than G5 football, so I'm not sure we're seeing that kind of return on a coach's salary.

Absolutely hate this thread, and hate posting here (this was the thread to lock, can we at least change the thread title now?)

ROI is not hard for JMU to calculate (harder for us to get exact)
1) Attendance in 2015 was approx 19500 and heading downward each year. This season approx 25,000. Net: +5,000 (at LEAST 500k revenue, and likely much more considering premium seating and duke club)
2) Value of playoff games and television appearances
3) Gameday 2, no way that happens unless we are undefeated
4) Value of Championship
5) Increase in donations
6) Increase in clothing/merchandise sales.
7) Intangible - upward growth slope of program vs decline of program.

I’d say he is easily worth $500k more than any coach we’ve had previously.

Small nitpick but reg season attendance was around 20.2k in 2015. If you include playoffs then it dips to 19.5k, but then you have to include last weeks game for this year, and the avg is around 23.6k so far, with 24.8k reg season avg.

Of course, it is shocking to see in retrospect, in 2015 we only drew 17k for the last reg season home game against a Villanova team, and only 21k for family weekend with a 4-0 team coming off an FBS win.

(12-06-2017 04:08 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  just checked. We're an FCS school with no FBS/Indy conference prospects in front of us, and have no business paying a head coach of any sport $1 Million. Double checked just to make sure, and yep we won't and shouldn't pay much more than 1/2 a million at any sport. We're a stepping stone for successful athletic staff.

I just checked, this mindset is a big part of the problem at JMU amongst its administration and constituents.

"Oh well, nothing we can do, we are a regional masters university"...

(12-06-2017 07:36 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 06:08 AM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  Paying salaries, in coaching and in a general profession, is all about what the market pays and what the ROI is. Coach Houston is a great coach. The market of other FCS coaches shows that a $1 million salary would be more than double what the top of the market is. Then there's ROI. He could be worth more than $1 million to JMU, but I don't have the numbers to show either way. What I do know is that FCS ROI tends to be less than G5 football, so I'm not sure we're seeing that kind of return on a coach's salary.

Absolutely hate this thread, and hate posting here (this was the thread to lock, can we at least change the thread title now?)

ROI is not hard for JMU to calculate (harder for us to get exact)
1) Attendance in 2015 was approx 19500 and heading downward each year. This season approx 25,000. Net: +5,000 (at LEAST 500k revenue, and likely much more considering premium seating and duke club)
2) Value of playoff games and television appearances
3) Gameday 2, no way that happens unless we are undefeated
4) Value of Championship
5) Increase in donations
6) Increase in clothing/merchandise sales.
7) Intangible - upward growth slope of program vs decline of program.

I’d say he is easily worth $500k more than any coach we’ve had previously.

I would also add the sponsorship values of the businesses who support JMU has increased. Meaning as contracts expire, we should be able to hold a more favorable position when negotiating. When the stands are packed you can bet Madizone and whatever TV is carrying the game has increased their earning power.

With that being said, we do have to be a little careful, as quickly as everything has increased in value, it can go down even faster. About all I think we need to do is hold off those lower tier teams and make it easy for him to say no. I do not believe for a moment there is anything we can do to prevent him from saying yes to an AAC team, especially ECU (given their location). I don't believe there'd be much we could do to hold off Appy should they show interest. Of course P5's are out of our league. He will have to say to himself, "that team is not the right fit for me" for any program further up the chain who shows interest.

MH offers some intangibles that we may find difficult to replace, like a respectable family life and the fact that the man simply has the look and demeanor of JMU nation. Think about it, someone like Rocco, doesn't carry himself the way we might prefer no matter how good of a coach he might be.

Really impressed w what App has done, but just not convinced its enough of an all around jump for MH at this point

Fordham HC Andrew Bernier hired as passing game coordinator at Mississippi State. At one point was Fordhams OC under new Mississippi St HC Moorehead.

MH said in one of his recent press conferences that JMU is the most desirable coaching job outside of the P5 schools. I would be shocked if he jumped ship for anything less. He'll get his shot if we continue to win, but I do think he'll have to stick around through next year for that to happen.

(12-06-2017 06:08 AM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  Paying salaries, in coaching and in a general profession, is all about what the market pays and what the ROI is. Coach Houston is a great coach. The market of other FCS coaches shows that a $1 million salary would be more than double what the top of the market is. Then there's ROI. He could be worth more than $1 million to JMU, but I don't have the numbers to show either way. What I do know is that FCS ROI tends to be less than G5 football, so I'm not sure we're seeing that kind of return on a coach's salary.

I agree with that, which is why I said any pay increase approaching FBS levels must be accompanied by an impending move up.

(12-06-2017 08:25 AM)Dadgum Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 04:08 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  just checked. We're an FCS school with no FBS/Indy conference prospects in front of us, and have no business paying a head coach of any sport $1 Million. Double checked just to make sure, and yep we won't and shouldn't pay much more than 1/2 a million at any sport. We're a stepping stone for successful athletic staff.

I just checked, this mindset is a big part of the problem at JMU amongst its administration and constituents.

I'm afraid you are right.

As has been mentioned before, unless you're in rarified air, say perennial top 15 P5, there will always be a better place to coach and there will be offers a coach cannot refuse.

(12-06-2017 11:34 AM)DutchDuke Wrote:  As has been mentioned before, unless you're in rarified air, say perennial top 15 P5, there will always be a better place to coach and there will be offers a coach cannot refuse.

Even worse, Jimbo Fisher anyone?

(12-06-2017 11:36 AM)JMU08 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:34 AM)DutchDuke Wrote:  As has been mentioned before, unless you're in rarified air, say perennial top 15 P5, there will always be a better place to coach and there will be offers a coach cannot refuse.

Even worse, Jimbo Fisher anyone?

The Jimbo situation is unique. I think people just underestimate that some relationships can get strained over time, even when there is crazy money involved. I bet a lot of people work with someone like him. They're usually very good at their job, but not very likable in the way they go about it and eventually, can fray everyone's nerves to the point where it's time to move on.

In fact, head coaches moving from a P5 job to another P5 job is very rare. Most were P5 coordinators or G5 head coaches. Out of the 65 P5 jobs, there's only 5 current coaches who've made the move, and I'd say three (arguably four in Taggart's case) of those were clear job upgrades AND had personal factors at play:

• Paul Chryst (Pitt to Wisconsin) - Is Wisconsin alumnus & previously spent 8 years on staff as an assistant
• James Franklin (Vanderbilt to Penn State) - grew up & played college ball in PA
• Dan Mullen (Mississippi State to Florida) - previously spent 4 years on staff as an assistant coach
• Jimbo Fisher (FSU to Texas A&M)
• Willie Taggart (Oregon to FSU) - from the state of Florida
  

(12-06-2017 07:15 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Houston is making $375K base and $85K in incentives/bonuses for championships right? He received a 1 year extension and $75K raise last year. I believe the assistants received raises as well. I could see with another title a similar raise- $450- $500K base and a $100K bonus incentive clause where his total comp at JMU is $600K. Give the staff similar raises as last year as well. Total comp for football staff may be close to $1M. That would have to be at the top of FCS and in line with many G5 FBS programs. You always run the risk that he will leave for a 7 figure plus job but it closes the gap a little more.

The total comp for football staff (MH + 10 other coaches) would already well over that, no? If MH is making with incentives 435k ballpark, Trott & Kirkpatrick (with incentives) are probably each at at least 1/3 of that, no? A few other coaches with "coordinator" 100k ballpark, no?

If Houston is making "X" wouldn't the other 10 coaches be at least 2X?

(12-06-2017 09:00 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 07:36 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 06:08 AM)bridgeforthduke Wrote:  Paying salaries, in coaching and in a general profession, is all about what the market pays and what the ROI is. Coach Houston is a great coach. The market of other FCS coaches shows that a $1 million salary would be more than double what the top of the market is. Then there's ROI. He could be worth more than $1 million to JMU, but I don't have the numbers to show either way. What I do know is that FCS ROI tends to be less than G5 football, so I'm not sure we're seeing that kind of return on a coach's salary.

Absolutely hate this thread, and hate posting here (this was the thread to lock, can we at least change the thread title now?)

ROI is not hard for JMU to calculate (harder for us to get exact)
1) Attendance in 2015 was approx 19500 and heading downward each year. This season approx 25,000. Net: +5,000 (at LEAST 500k revenue, and likely much more considering premium seating and duke club)
2) Value of playoff games and television appearances
3) Gameday 2, no way that happens unless we are undefeated
4) Value of Championship
5) Increase in donations
6) Increase in clothing/merchandise sales.
7) Intangible - upward growth slope of program vs decline of program.

I’d say he is easily worth $500k more than any coach we’ve had previously.

I would also add the sponsorship values of the businesses who support JMU has increased. Meaning as contracts expire, we should be able to hold a more favorable position when negotiating. When the stands are packed you can bet Madizone and whatever TV is carrying the game has increased their earning power.

With that being said, we do have to be a little careful, as quickly as everything has increased in value, it can go down even faster. About all I think we need to do is hold off those lower tier teams and make it easy for him to say no. I do not believe for a moment there is anything we can do to prevent him from saying yes to an AAC team, especially ECU (given their location). I don't believe there'd be much we could do to hold off Appy should they show interest. Of course P5's are out of our league. He will have to say to himself, "that team is not the right fit for me" for any program further up the chain who shows interest.

MH offers some intangibles that we may find difficult to replace, like a respectable family life and the fact that the man simply has the look and demeanor of JMU nation. Think about it, someone like Rocco, doesn't carry himself the way we might prefer no matter how good of a coach he might be.

Citing lots of revenue streams here but do not forget the expenses...

(12-06-2017 11:58 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:36 AM)JMU08 Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:34 AM)DutchDuke Wrote:  As has been mentioned before, unless you're in rarified air, say perennial top 15 P5, there will always be a better place to coach and there will be offers a coach cannot refuse.

Even worse, Jimbo Fisher anyone?

The Jimbo situation is unique. I think people just underestimate that some relationships can get strained over time, even when there is crazy money involved. I bet a lot of people work with someone like him. They're usually very good at their job, but not very likable in the way they go about it and eventually, can fray everyone's nerves to the point where it's time to move on.

In fact, head coaches moving from a P5 job to another P5 job is very rare. Most were P5 coordinators or G5 head coaches. Out of the 65 P5 jobs, there's only 5 current coaches who've made the move, and I'd say three (arguably four in Taggart's case) of those were clear job upgrades AND had personal factors at play:

• Paul Chryst (Pitt to Wisconsin) - Is Wisconsin alumnus & previously spent 8 years on staff as an assistant
• James Franklin (Vanderbilt to Penn State) - grew up & played college ball in PA
• Dan Mullen (Mississippi State to Florida) - previously spent 4 years on staff as an assistant coach
• Jimbo Fisher (FSU to Texas A&M)
• Willie Taggart (Oregon to FSU) - from the state of Florida
  

How about Urban Meyer? He went from Florida to Ohio State in 2011, even though he had a few months of work in between with ESPN.