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The AP should be ashamed of themselves
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sfink16 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The AP should be ashamed of themselves
(11-06-2017 02:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:43 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:27 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  Should anyone be impressed by Alabama's win over overrated LSU? After all, Alabama scored the exact same number of point against LSU as Troy did, 24 points. Both beat that weakling LSU. See how transference doesn't always equate to reality? What makes LSU, Alabama's top win so far this year, any better than UCF beating Houston or Memphis?

Who is saying Alabama beating LSU is better than UCF beating Memphis? Memphis is ranked higher than LSU by everybody.

As for reality, analogies have to make sense. Nobody seriously doubts that Alabama is one of the 5-6 best teams in the country. They don't need to have great wins because they have a pedigree built up over time, such as making the national title game the last two years.

For a school like UCF that has no such track record, then yes, the standards of evidence are going to be stricter.

Yes, and so did FSU until they finally didn't this year, when it took 5 losses before they stopped receiving votes. I understand your point, but just don't agree with it. The games should be won or loss on the field, not by past track records.

Every year is different and should be treated that way.

I agree with you, but voting is a guessing game to a large extent, so they factor in pedigree. It's wrong, yes, but it also does make sense at a certain level. Does anyone think Alabama isn't one of the best teams? I don't think you believe that.

FWIW, i think FSU is a bad example, because they lost their star QB in the first game. It's like if the NE Patriots were ranked #1 in the NFL at the start of the season, but are 2-6 now, but they lost Tom Brady to a season-ending injury in game 1. It would be silly to say "see, the Patriots are 2-6, they were way over-rated going in to the season, that's what you get for relying on their past seasons!", when that pre-season rating was based on them having Brady, who they no longer have, and whose absence is the obvious reason for the 2-6 record.

We're agreeing with more than we're disagreeing. However, losing a star QB doesn't mean the season is over. Ohio State lost their star QB, than their backup, and still won a "fictitious" NC with their 3rd guy. How often is that star QB, not really the star you thought they were. Houston and Cincy had recent examples of big star QBs who couldn't even keep their jobs.

I don't think we should get all hung up on losing one player, even if it's a "star" QB. Besides, I was debating recently with someone recently who said Alabama's second team are all 5 star players, and/or would be studs for AAC teams, if they decided to play here. I would think that FSU has similar pedigree to Alabama and their second QB is just another 5 star guy (said tongue in cheek).
11-06-2017 02:52 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: The AP should be ashamed of themselves
(11-06-2017 01:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:27 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 12:20 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  How is UCF undervalued in the polls? UCF has beaten one pretty good team, Memphis. Memphis themselves haven't beaten any good teams. So there's not much linking UCF to wins over good teams this year.

Houston isn't a good team? Navy isn't a good team?

Nobody at any P5 is going to be impressed by wins over Houston and Navy. That's just reality, and that's who we are competing with for ranking position.

Add it all up, and UCF's strength of schedule is 92 according to Sagarin. That's pretty darn low.

Should anyone be impressed by Alabama's win over overrated LSU? After all, Alabama scored the exact same number of point against LSU as Troy did, 24 points. Both beat that weakling LSU. See how transference doesn't always equate to reality? What makes LSU, Alabama's top win so far this year, any better than UCF beating Houston or Memphis?

Who is saying Alabama beating LSU is better than UCF beating Memphis? Memphis is ranked higher than LSU by everybody.

As for reality, analogies have to make sense. Nobody seriously doubts that Alabama is one of the 5-6 best teams in the country. They don't need to have great wins because they have a pedigree built up over time, such as making the national title game the last two years.

For a school like UCF that has no such track record, then yes, the standards of evidence are going to be stricter.

LSU was ranked higher than Memphis at the time of the LSU/Alabama game. That is one of the neat little tricks the pollsters like to pull. Alabama has a crap schedule thus far? No problem. We'll just take one of their upcoming opponents in-conference, and rank them so Alabammmmer can have a win over a ranked team.

Of course after Alabama beat them - LSU lost + Memphis won, so it's not hard to see we jumped them. But amazingly, LSU STILL hangs on to a ranking after 3 losses. Look for them to be still ranked at the end of the season even though they have a crap record, and all for Alabammmmmer's sake.
11-06-2017 02:56 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #63
RE: The AP should be ashamed of themselves
(11-06-2017 02:56 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:27 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 12:20 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  Houston isn't a good team? Navy isn't a good team?

Nobody at any P5 is going to be impressed by wins over Houston and Navy. That's just reality, and that's who we are competing with for ranking position.

Add it all up, and UCF's strength of schedule is 92 according to Sagarin. That's pretty darn low.

Should anyone be impressed by Alabama's win over overrated LSU? After all, Alabama scored the exact same number of point against LSU as Troy did, 24 points. Both beat that weakling LSU. See how transference doesn't always equate to reality? What makes LSU, Alabama's top win so far this year, any better than UCF beating Houston or Memphis?

Who is saying Alabama beating LSU is better than UCF beating Memphis? Memphis is ranked higher than LSU by everybody.

As for reality, analogies have to make sense. Nobody seriously doubts that Alabama is one of the 5-6 best teams in the country. They don't need to have great wins because they have a pedigree built up over time, such as making the national title game the last two years.

For a school like UCF that has no such track record, then yes, the standards of evidence are going to be stricter.

LSU was ranked higher than Memphis at the time of the LSU/Alabama game. That is one of the neat little tricks the pollsters like to pull. Alabama has a crap schedule thus far? No problem. We'll just take one of their upcoming opponents in-conference, and rank them so Alabammmmer can have a win over a ranked team.

Of course after Alabama beat them - LSU lost + Memphis won, so it's not hard to see we jumped them. But amazingly, LSU STILL hangs on to a ranking after 3 losses. Look for them to be still ranked at the end of the season even though they have a crap record, and all for Alabammmmmer's sake.

Here's the thing: Do you really think "Alabammmmmer" is a paper tiger? That they aren't one of the 4-5 best teams in the country?

I mean, if God were to tell you "I, being God, know where every team should be ranked, and if you can guess where Alabama really should be ranked, you get a million bucks. Your choices are: (a) higher than 3, (b) between 10 and 3, © lower than 10, (d) lower than 20. Which would you pick?


As for polls, LSU isn't in the AP poll, they won't be in the CFP poll, and they are barely clinging in the coaches poll. So the coach's think a 3-loss LSU is still the #25 team in the country. Is that really a big crime? It's just the opinion of 60 coaches, who do know a thing or two about what makes a team 'good'.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2017 04:11 PM by quo vadis.)
11-06-2017 04:09 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: The AP should be ashamed of themselves
(11-06-2017 04:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 02:56 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:27 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 01:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Nobody at any P5 is going to be impressed by wins over Houston and Navy. That's just reality, and that's who we are competing with for ranking position.

Add it all up, and UCF's strength of schedule is 92 according to Sagarin. That's pretty darn low.

Should anyone be impressed by Alabama's win over overrated LSU? After all, Alabama scored the exact same number of point against LSU as Troy did, 24 points. Both beat that weakling LSU. See how transference doesn't always equate to reality? What makes LSU, Alabama's top win so far this year, any better than UCF beating Houston or Memphis?

Who is saying Alabama beating LSU is better than UCF beating Memphis? Memphis is ranked higher than LSU by everybody.

As for reality, analogies have to make sense. Nobody seriously doubts that Alabama is one of the 5-6 best teams in the country. They don't need to have great wins because they have a pedigree built up over time, such as making the national title game the last two years.

For a school like UCF that has no such track record, then yes, the standards of evidence are going to be stricter.

LSU was ranked higher than Memphis at the time of the LSU/Alabama game. That is one of the neat little tricks the pollsters like to pull. Alabama has a crap schedule thus far? No problem. We'll just take one of their upcoming opponents in-conference, and rank them so Alabammmmer can have a win over a ranked team.

Of course after Alabama beat them - LSU lost + Memphis won, so it's not hard to see we jumped them. But amazingly, LSU STILL hangs on to a ranking after 3 losses. Look for them to be still ranked at the end of the season even though they have a crap record, and all for Alabammmmmer's sake.

Here's the thing: Do you really think "Alabammmmmer" is a paper tiger? That they aren't one of the 4-5 best teams in the country?

I mean, if God were to tell you "I, being God, know where every team should be ranked, and if you can guess where Alabama really should be ranked, you get a million bucks. Your choices are: (a) higher than 3, (b) between 10 and 3, © lower than 10, (d) lower than 20. Which would you pick?


As for polls, LSU isn't in the AP poll, they won't be in the CFP poll, and they are barely clinging in the coaches poll. So the coach's think a 3-loss LSU is still the #25 team in the country. Is that really a big crime? It's just the opinion of 60 coaches, who do know a thing or two about what makes a team 'good'.

I said BEFORE they played.

[Image: 23319331_1702293439801348_67638090330560...e=5AA61BEE]

And let's see IF they are out Tuesday before you doubt me.
11-06-2017 04:30 PM
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TripleA Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The AP should be ashamed of themselves
(11-06-2017 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 10:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  sagarin seems to be the computer ranking with the least respect for UCF. UCF is 8th in Massey's composite and 5th in S&P +/-.... they are still really undervalued in the polls, despite the schedule.

How is UCF undervalued in the polls? UCF has beaten one pretty good team, Memphis. Memphis themselves haven't beaten any good teams. So there's not much linking UCF to wins over good teams this year.

Let's see, one factor in the CFP selection process is wins against ranked teams, ranked at the time you play them. Memphis has 2 top 25 wins: UCLA and Navy.

Not our fault they got worse. Still counts. Always has, whether you acknowledge it, or not. Would be better the other way, but it's 2 more than USF has beaten at any time.

And Houston is a good team, who happened to beat a ranked, unbeaten USF.
11-06-2017 04:44 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #66
RE: The AP should be ashamed of themselves
(11-06-2017 04:44 PM)TripleA Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 10:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 10:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  sagarin seems to be the computer ranking with the least respect for UCF. UCF is 8th in Massey's composite and 5th in S&P +/-.... they are still really undervalued in the polls, despite the schedule.

How is UCF undervalued in the polls? UCF has beaten one pretty good team, Memphis. Memphis themselves haven't beaten any good teams. So there's not much linking UCF to wins over good teams this year.

Let's see, one factor in the CFP selection process is wins against ranked teams, ranked at the time you play them. Memphis has 2 top 25 wins: UCLA and Navy.

Not our fault they got worse. Still counts. Always has, whether you acknowledge it, or not.

Nope, nobody counts a win vs a "ranked" team unless they are currently ranked. UCLA is a 4-5 team that probably won't make a bowl game unless somehow 5-7 teams get in.

No way on earth the CFP is giving them credit for either of those as wins vs ranked teams, because they aren't.

Look at Notre dame. Why are they #3 in the CFP? One reason is they have the 'best' loss, to Georgia. But guess what? When ND lost to Georgia, Georgia was #15.

You seriously think that right now, the CFP regards ND as having lost to a #15, or a team ranked #1?
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2017 04:53 PM by quo vadis.)
11-06-2017 04:48 PM
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