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Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
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Heelworld Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You can break the MEAC down this way

1) Howard, FAMU, B-CU are viable D-I schools (Howard is a standout academically; Hampton fell in this group as well)
2) Norfolk State, NCCU, and AT are borderline D-I profiles (numbers look like D-II Cal State schools, but sustainable)
3) Delaware State has a D-II profile (D-I is a reach, but not a totally hopeless reach)
4) UMES, Savannah State, Coppin State have weak profiles even for D-II (marginal cash situations, should be cutting costs)
5) SC State is in really bad shape, somewhat similar to Chicago State

The first category are attractive candidates for other conferences. The rest are not really high value, and the bottom four schools are pretty much untouchable. The second category would have to work very hard to land anywhere, but it's not impossible, would just take time.

But yeah, if Howard goes, all of category 4 and 5 would be forced back down to D-II.

Interesting, where does Morgan State fit in, you didn't include them?
11-17-2017 09:30 AM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(11-16-2017 08:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 08:06 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 04:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You can break the MEAC down this way

1) Howard, FAMU, B-CU are viable D-I schools (Howard is a standout academically; Hampton fell in this group as well)
2) Norfolk State, NCCU, and AT are borderline D-I profiles (numbers look like D-II Cal State schools, but sustainable)
3) Delaware State has a D-II profile (D-I is a reach, but not a totally hopeless reach)
4) UMES, Savannah State, Coppin State have weak profiles even for D-II (marginal cash situations, should be cutting costs)
5) SC State is in really bad shape, somewhat similar to Chicago State

The first category are attractive candidates for other conferences. The rest are not really high value, and the bottom four schools are pretty much untouchable. The second category would have to work very hard to land anywhere, but it's not impossible, would just take time.

But yeah, if Howard goes, all of category 4 and 5 would be forced back down to D-II.


Seems numbers are off by different sites. UNC Central and A&T are listed a little over 10,000 students. Same with Jackson State, Texas Southern and Southern. Even Alabama State seems to be off a bit. The answers could be in between the highest and lowest. There are some HBCUs that have more students than some of the MEAC.
Clark Atlanta
Fort Valley State
Winston Salem State
Virginia State

Those four have more students than many. Langston in NAIA have a big growth recently as well. If they could move into the SWAC today? They would be third from last in students.
St. Phillips in Texas is the largest HBCU with students. I never even heard of them before.

And your point is ... ? None of this is relevant to the thread.

Winston-Salem State tried for D1 and it will be a long time IF they try again. Langston is growing but is still under 3,000. How are they going to move to the SWAC when they passed on an offer for D2. The only reason Langston has 10 sports is because indoor and outdoor track are counted separately. St. Phillips is out of the question since they are a community college with no athletic department.


Last I saw, Langston is 3248 students total.

I am not saying they are, but schools like Bowie State, Virginia State and Fort Valley State might help out. Fort Valley State could be a bridge to the two Florida schools and the Alabama schools in the SWAC.

As it is, if I remember correctly, Langston was one of the founders of SWAC. They were thinking of moving to D2 a few years back.

You have never posted a correct "fact", not even about the school you attended. Reputable sources, including the school website, state Langston enrollment under 3,000. As I posted before; Langston joined the SWAC in 1931, eleven years after the conference was founded. Yes, they thought about moving to D2 four years ago but they passed. Since they are not going D2, they certainly are not going to rejoin the SWAC.

You have used the reason "they fill a gap on the map" before. That is never a criteria for membership consideration. How else would those three schools help out? they already struggle financially in D2, there is no way they could afford D1.
11-17-2017 11:34 AM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #113
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(11-17-2017 09:30 AM)Heelworld Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You can break the MEAC down this way

1) Howard, FAMU, B-CU are viable D-I schools (Howard is a standout academically; Hampton fell in this group as well)
2) Norfolk State, NCCU, and AT are borderline D-I profiles (numbers look like D-II Cal State schools, but sustainable)
3) Delaware State has a D-II profile (D-I is a reach, but not a totally hopeless reach)
4) UMES, Savannah State, Coppin State have weak profiles even for D-II (marginal cash situations, should be cutting costs)
5) SC State is in really bad shape, somewhat similar to Chicago State

The first category are attractive candidates for other conferences. The rest are not really high value, and the bottom four schools are pretty much untouchable. The second category would have to work very hard to land anywhere, but it's not impossible, would just take time.

But yeah, if Howard goes, all of category 4 and 5 would be forced back down to D-II.

Interesting, where does Morgan State fit in, you didn't include them?

Coppin State should be merged into Morgan State - they are only 6 miles apart
11-17-2017 12:22 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(11-17-2017 12:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 09:30 AM)Heelworld Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You can break the MEAC down this way

1) Howard, FAMU, B-CU are viable D-I schools (Howard is a standout academically; Hampton fell in this group as well)
2) Norfolk State, NCCU, and AT are borderline D-I profiles (numbers look like D-II Cal State schools, but sustainable)
3) Delaware State has a D-II profile (D-I is a reach, but not a totally hopeless reach)
4) UMES, Savannah State, Coppin State have weak profiles even for D-II (marginal cash situations, should be cutting costs)
5) SC State is in really bad shape, somewhat similar to Chicago State

The first category are attractive candidates for other conferences. The rest are not really high value, and the bottom four schools are pretty much untouchable. The second category would have to work very hard to land anywhere, but it's not impossible, would just take time.

But yeah, if Howard goes, all of category 4 and 5 would be forced back down to D-II.

Interesting, where does Morgan State fit in, you didn't include them?

Coppin State should be merged into Morgan State - they are only 6 miles apart

What?! Why on earth would a state have two state HBCUs so close together? That makes no sense.

In reality Coppin St, Morgan St, UMES, Delaware St, and South Carolina St should all move to DII.

Howard, Norfolk St, NC Central, NC A&T, Florida A&M, and Bethune-Cookman could then migrate to regionally appropriate conferences.
11-17-2017 04:12 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #115
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(11-17-2017 04:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 12:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-17-2017 09:30 AM)Heelworld Wrote:  
(11-16-2017 01:03 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You can break the MEAC down this way

1) Howard, FAMU, B-CU are viable D-I schools (Howard is a standout academically; Hampton fell in this group as well)
2) Norfolk State, NCCU, and AT are borderline D-I profiles (numbers look like D-II Cal State schools, but sustainable)
3) Delaware State has a D-II profile (D-I is a reach, but not a totally hopeless reach)
4) UMES, Savannah State, Coppin State have weak profiles even for D-II (marginal cash situations, should be cutting costs)
5) SC State is in really bad shape, somewhat similar to Chicago State

The first category are attractive candidates for other conferences. The rest are not really high value, and the bottom four schools are pretty much untouchable. The second category would have to work very hard to land anywhere, but it's not impossible, would just take time.

But yeah, if Howard goes, all of category 4 and 5 would be forced back down to D-II.

Interesting, where does Morgan State fit in, you didn't include them?

Coppin State should be merged into Morgan State - they are only 6 miles apart

What?! Why on earth would a state have two state HBCUs so close together? That makes no sense.

In reality Coppin St, Morgan St, UMES, Delaware St, and South Carolina St should all move to DII.

Howard, Norfolk St, NC Central, NC A&T, Florida A&M, and Bethune-Cookman could then migrate to regionally appropriate conferences.

Morgan State was originally private, Coppin State was founded to be one of the State HBCU's. Maryland ended up buying Morgan State in the 30's.
11-17-2017 04:18 PM
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NoDak Online
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Post: #116
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
Presbyterian will transition to the Pioneer starting in 2021 and add new athletic programs ( likely M&W wrestling). In addition, it will be launching new majors and a Health Sciences and Pharmacy School.

http://www.presby.edu/about/2017/11/19/p...egic-plan/
(This post was last modified: Today 06:15 PM by NoDak.)
Today 06:09 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #117
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
2021?? Drag it out--wow. Yes I know they have to consider players currently on scholarship,blah,blah--but...
Today 08:26 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #118
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
Tow revenue games, in 2018 and 2019. They have to have 58 equivalent scholarships to qualify for those games. 2019 can be a JuCo heavy class, so they run out after 2020. They want to graduate as many of the players as they can, since they are thinking long term for donors to the school.

I think running Football for three years as scholarship, and those words about "new sports" almost partnered with "club sports" makes me think there is no immediate scholarship replacement. Wrestling is not in this announcement, and the room for scholarships wont be there for another three or four years. I have to think Men's Lacrosse or Men's and Women's swimming make more sense for this school based on the target demographic.

I noticed 4 of the bullets focused on medical field related major offerings, and 3 bullets were related to recruiting foreign students ("China Scholars", "United Nations", and living facilities on and off campus), while the others focused on post-PC placement, and shifting the emphasis of the curriculum to problems solving are designed to produce more alumni who donate large dollars. These are funding and sustainability points of emphasis.
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