(10-25-2017 11:31 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Schools in FB conferences like Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC and MWC are stuck because they are together for FB reasons and BBall takes a back seat at those conferences. But the schools not playing FBS FB could and possibly should realign. Some of these conferences could be better off cutting some dead weight and adding schools who take BBall more seriously. For instance in the A-10 how much better would they be if they dropped Duquesne for say Iona or Seina?

Creating 11 team conferences with strength of basketball and region in mind could help a lot of these programs out who want to succeed in the sport and not be weighed down by schools who don't care as much. Let the cream rise to the top and band together to create some strength of their own.

One of these is not like the others

(10-25-2017 01:51 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 11:31 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Schools in FB conferences like Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC and MWC are stuck because they are together for FB reasons and BBall takes a back seat at those conferences. But the schools not playing FBS FB could and possibly should realign. Some of these conferences could be better off cutting some dead weight and adding schools who take BBall more seriously. For instance in the A-10 how much better would they be if they dropped Duquesne for say Iona or Seina?

Creating 11 team conferences with strength of basketball and region in mind could help a lot of these programs out who want to succeed in the sport and not be weighed down by schools who don't care as much. Let the cream rise to the top and band together to create some strength of their own.

One of these is not like the others

Rutgers and Arkansas Tech must be sister schools

(10-25-2017 09:22 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  The best of the west coast mid-majors (WCC, Big West, WAC) should band together like the Big East did in the late 70's and create a conference on the level of at least the A-10 and possibly good enough to be on par with the Pac and SEC most years.

Gonzaga, SMU, BYU, Long Beach, Pepperdine, Loyola, Santa Clara, New Mexico St, Grand Canyon and a few others.

Grand Canyon, LOL...

(10-25-2017 02:00 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 01:51 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 11:31 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Schools in FB conferences like Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC and MWC are stuck because they are together for FB reasons and BBall takes a back seat at those conferences. But the schools not playing FBS FB could and possibly should realign. Some of these conferences could be better off cutting some dead weight and adding schools who take BBall more seriously. For instance in the A-10 how much better would they be if they dropped Duquesne for say Iona or Seina?

Creating 11 team conferences with strength of basketball and region in mind could help a lot of these programs out who want to succeed in the sport and not be weighed down by schools who don't care as much. Let the cream rise to the top and band together to create some strength of their own.

One of these is not like the others

Rutgers and Arkansas Tech must be sister schools

Who is SMUs sister school? Louisville or Miami?

(10-25-2017 02:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 09:22 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  The best of the west coast mid-majors (WCC, Big West, WAC) should band together like the Big East did in the late 70's and create a conference on the level of at least the A-10 and possibly good enough to be on par with the Pac and SEC most years.

Gonzaga, SMU, BYU, Long Beach, Pepperdine, Loyola, Santa Clara, New Mexico St, Grand Canyon and a few others.

Grand Canyon, LOL...

Yeah, one of the better basketball programs in the west and would bring the Phoenix market.

Can you name the 11 best basketball schools in the west not in a FBS conference?

(10-25-2017 02:28 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 09:22 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  The best of the west coast mid-majors (WCC, Big West, WAC) should band together like the Big East did in the late 70's and create a conference on the level of at least the A-10 and possibly good enough to be on par with the Pac and SEC most years.

Gonzaga, SMU, BYU, Long Beach, Pepperdine, Loyola, Santa Clara, New Mexico St, Grand Canyon and a few others.

Grand Canyon, LOL...

Yeah, one of the better basketball programs in the west and would bring the Phoenix market.

Can you name the 11 best basketball schools in the west not in a FBS conference?

Six of the schools that you named are already in the WCC, and there's no compelling reason for them to leave the WCC. There's little or nothing for them to gain in men's basketball power ratings by hypothetically replacing the other four WCC teams with programs from other conferences that are not even on the level of St. Mary's or BYU, let alone the level of Gonzaga. For example, it's not nearly as much power-ratings gain as the Big East would get by replacing DePaul and St. John's with Dayton and VCU. And we know the Big East isn't going to do that, so there's no reason to talk about WCC schools doing something that would have far less positive impact in men's basketball.

SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico have been down, but they will rise back up. They still have fantastic traditions and great fan support.

Add Gonzaga, SMC, and BYU to the MWC - and kick out SJSU and you basically have the West's version of the AAC.

(10-25-2017 02:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 09:22 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  The best of the west coast mid-majors (WCC, Big West, WAC) should band together like the Big East did in the late 70's and create a conference on the level of at least the A-10 and possibly good enough to be on par with the Pac and SEC most years.

Gonzaga, SMU, BYU, Long Beach, Pepperdine, Loyola, Santa Clara, New Mexico St, Grand Canyon and a few others.

Grand Canyon, LOL...

They're gonna be a player with the money they can throw at their programs

(10-25-2017 03:42 PM)YNot Wrote:  SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico have been down, but they will rise back up. They still have fantastic traditions and great fan support.

Add Gonzaga, SMC, and BYU to the MWC - and kick out SJSU and you basically have the West's version of the AAC.

You want BYU to rejoin the Mountain West?

(10-25-2017 03:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:28 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 09:22 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  The best of the west coast mid-majors (WCC, Big West, WAC) should band together like the Big East did in the late 70's and create a conference on the level of at least the A-10 and possibly good enough to be on par with the Pac and SEC most years.

Gonzaga, SMU, BYU, Long Beach, Pepperdine, Loyola, Santa Clara, New Mexico St, Grand Canyon and a few others.

Grand Canyon, LOL...

Yeah, one of the better basketball programs in the west and would bring the Phoenix market.

Can you name the 11 best basketball schools in the west not in a FBS conference?

Six of the schools that you named are already in the WCC, and there's no compelling reason for them to leave the WCC. There's little or nothing for them to gain in men's basketball power ratings by hypothetically replacing the other four WCC teams with programs from other conferences that are not even on the level of St. Mary's or BYU, let alone the level of Gonzaga. For example, it's not nearly as much power-ratings gain as the Big East would get by replacing DePaul and St. John's with Dayton and VCU. And we know the Big East isn't going to do that, so there's no reason to talk about WCC schools doing something that would have far less positive impact in men's basketball.

Except those programs take basketball seriously and invest heavily in their programs. DePaul has a new arena opening this season right on the lake front. Mark Few himself has been complaining about the level of investment in the bottom half of the WCC. Not to mention that the two Big East schools you mentioned are in the #1 and #3 TV markets in the country and home to many many alums from the conference.

Yeah, the top half of the WCC would definitely be involved and they would definitely benefit from aligning with schools like Hawaii, New Mexico and Long Beach St while leaving behind those not willing to invest in their programs and stop playing in glorified high school gyms.

(10-25-2017 04:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:42 PM)YNot Wrote:  SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico have been down, but they will rise back up. They still have fantastic traditions and great fan support.

Add Gonzaga, SMC, and BYU to the MWC - and kick out SJSU and you basically have the West's version of the AAC.

You want BYU to rejoin the Mountain West?

I do not personally want BYU to rejoin the MWC. I opined on how to make the West's version of the AAC in an attempt to create more NCAA tournament bids for mid-majors.

I would love to see BYU Olympic sports join an expanded AAC that also includes Gonzaga, SDSU and perhaps 1-2 other western schools.

(10-25-2017 04:51 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 04:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:42 PM)YNot Wrote:  SDSU, UNLV, and New Mexico have been down, but they will rise back up. They still have fantastic traditions and great fan support.

Add Gonzaga, SMC, and BYU to the MWC - and kick out SJSU and you basically have the West's version of the AAC.

You want BYU to rejoin the Mountain West?

I do not personally want BYU to rejoin the MWC. I opined on how to make the West's version of the AAC in an attempt to create more NCAA tournament bids for mid-majors.

I would love to see BYU Olympic sports join an expanded AAC that also includes Gonzaga, SDSU and perhaps 1-2 other western schools.

I don't think the AAC is going to go with a group of non-FB playing members. WSU offsetting Navy for 12 members in all sports is one thing, a group of non-FB schools is a whole different animal.

(10-25-2017 04:50 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:28 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 09:22 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  The best of the west coast mid-majors (WCC, Big West, WAC) should band together like the Big East did in the late 70's and create a conference on the level of at least the A-10 and possibly good enough to be on par with the Pac and SEC most years.

Gonzaga, SMU, BYU, Long Beach, Pepperdine, Loyola, Santa Clara, New Mexico St, Grand Canyon and a few others.

Grand Canyon, LOL...

Yeah, one of the better basketball programs in the west and would bring the Phoenix market.

Can you name the 11 best basketball schools in the west not in a FBS conference?

Six of the schools that you named are already in the WCC, and there's no compelling reason for them to leave the WCC. There's little or nothing for them to gain in men's basketball power ratings by hypothetically replacing the other four WCC teams with programs from other conferences that are not even on the level of St. Mary's or BYU, let alone the level of Gonzaga. For example, it's not nearly as much power-ratings gain as the Big East would get by replacing DePaul and St. John's with Dayton and VCU. And we know the Big East isn't going to do that, so there's no reason to talk about WCC schools doing something that would have far less positive impact in men's basketball.

Except those programs take basketball seriously and invest heavily in their programs. DePaul has a new arena opening this season right on the lake front. Mark Few himself has been complaining about the level of investment in the bottom half of the WCC. Not to mention that the two Big East schools you mentioned are in the #1 and #3 TV markets in the country and home to many many alums from the conference.

Yeah, the top half of the WCC would definitely be involved and they would definitely benefit from aligning with schools like Hawaii, New Mexico and Long Beach St while leaving behind those not willing to invest in their programs and stop playing in glorified high school gyms.

Now you have completely changed your criteria. Before it was all about basketball results; now you're prioritizing teams that consistently lose in shiny new arenas over teams like Saint Mary's that consistently win in old gyms.

Also: If "level of investment" is now important, then show us real data about the level of men's basketball investment at, say, Long Beach State, versus that of all of the schools that you want to expel from the WCC.

(10-25-2017 10:59 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  In the past, it was usually the SAME mid-majors getting the bids every year. Many of those former "mid-majors" got promoted and are now in "major" conferences. (Butler, Xavier, Creighton, Marquette, Depaul, and Louisville were all "mid-majors" in 2002).

Look at the so-called "mid-majors" who got at-large bids in the last 2 years: Cincinnati (x2), VCU (x2), Dayton (x2), Wichita, Temple, St. Mary's, and Tulsa. That's mostly the same "mid-majors" who were getting bids in the 1990s.

Yeah you can go back to the early 80s with them.

Part of the issue is only so many mid majors can be good at one time.

Only so many guys 6'8 to 6'10 that are athletic out there. Either they go to Cincinnati, Wichita, VCU or they go somewhere else.

Football is totally different with tons of athletic 2 stars and 3 stars.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using CSNbbs mobile app

(10-25-2017 06:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 04:50 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:28 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Grand Canyon, LOL...

Yeah, one of the better basketball programs in the west and would bring the Phoenix market.

Can you name the 11 best basketball schools in the west not in a FBS conference?

Six of the schools that you named are already in the WCC, and there's no compelling reason for them to leave the WCC. There's little or nothing for them to gain in men's basketball power ratings by hypothetically replacing the other four WCC teams with programs from other conferences that are not even on the level of St. Mary's or BYU, let alone the level of Gonzaga. For example, it's not nearly as much power-ratings gain as the Big East would get by replacing DePaul and St. John's with Dayton and VCU. And we know the Big East isn't going to do that, so there's no reason to talk about WCC schools doing something that would have far less positive impact in men's basketball.

Except those programs take basketball seriously and invest heavily in their programs. DePaul has a new arena opening this season right on the lake front. Mark Few himself has been complaining about the level of investment in the bottom half of the WCC. Not to mention that the two Big East schools you mentioned are in the #1 and #3 TV markets in the country and home to many many alums from the conference.

Yeah, the top half of the WCC would definitely be involved and they would definitely benefit from aligning with schools like Hawaii, New Mexico and Long Beach St while leaving behind those not willing to invest in their programs and stop playing in glorified high school gyms.

Now you have completely changed your criteria. Before it was all about basketball results; now you're prioritizing teams that consistently lose in shiny new arenas over teams like Saint Mary's that consistently win in old gyms.

Also: If "level of investment" is now important, then show us real data about the level of men's basketball investment at, say, Long Beach State, versus that of all of the schools that you want to expel from the WCC.

I'm not changing criteria at all. No matter how good everyone in the league is someone will finish last. Thats a fact. Now would you want your last place teams to put money into their programs or just not care and use the money the better schools get for them on swimming and cross country?

If you don't believe me go read what Mark Few has said about his own conference mates.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ick-it-up/

Quote:“Our league needs to really step back and take notice,” Few said. “It’s time for some of these other institutions to start picking it up. They’re really dragging the top three down.”

Does that sound like Few is happy with the investment of schools in that conference? Oh and why bring up SMC when I was clearly not talking about them? You seriously think that the WCC can not possibly improve? That their are no schools in the west that could help those top teams get more bids and actually test each other and play a few teams with a pulse between December and March?

Quote:“We need to talk long and hard about (NCAA Tournament) money distribution that we’re making for the league,” Few said. “And if they’re not spending it on basketball, we don’t need to be sponsoring swimming at those schools or whatever they’ve got going. They’re not all in.”

THEY'RE NOT ALL IN! Straight from the horses mouth. But please, lets see some data on how those schools have more investment than Long Beach State, Hawaii or New Mexico State has.

Quote:To be perfectly honest, Few is on the money here. Six of the 10 teams in the league this year finished with a KenPom rating of 196 or lower and an RPI of 223 or lower. For first time since 2012, the league finished 11th in the conference ranking or lower in KenPom. After three straight years of growth, the league has stagnated and it's leading to problems for the top end of the league.

As I've said numerous times before, Few is delusional if he expects WCC schools to compete at a high level. Look no further than Gonzaga 20 years ago. 20 years ago they were a no-name with one NCAA Tournament appearance all-time. St. Mary's is good now but they're the size of a high school and play in a high school gym. BYU, and now Gonzaga along with perhaps San Diego are the only ones who can realistically compete at a high enough level.

(10-25-2017 07:42 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 06:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 04:50 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 02:28 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Yeah, one of the better basketball programs in the west and would bring the Phoenix market.

Can you name the 11 best basketball schools in the west not in a FBS conference?

Six of the schools that you named are already in the WCC, and there's no compelling reason for them to leave the WCC. There's little or nothing for them to gain in men's basketball power ratings by hypothetically replacing the other four WCC teams with programs from other conferences that are not even on the level of St. Mary's or BYU, let alone the level of Gonzaga. For example, it's not nearly as much power-ratings gain as the Big East would get by replacing DePaul and St. John's with Dayton and VCU. And we know the Big East isn't going to do that, so there's no reason to talk about WCC schools doing something that would have far less positive impact in men's basketball.

Except those programs take basketball seriously and invest heavily in their programs. DePaul has a new arena opening this season right on the lake front. Mark Few himself has been complaining about the level of investment in the bottom half of the WCC. Not to mention that the two Big East schools you mentioned are in the #1 and #3 TV markets in the country and home to many many alums from the conference.

Yeah, the top half of the WCC would definitely be involved and they would definitely benefit from aligning with schools like Hawaii, New Mexico and Long Beach St while leaving behind those not willing to invest in their programs and stop playing in glorified high school gyms.

Now you have completely changed your criteria. Before it was all about basketball results; now you're prioritizing teams that consistently lose in shiny new arenas over teams like Saint Mary's that consistently win in old gyms.

Also: If "level of investment" is now important, then show us real data about the level of men's basketball investment at, say, Long Beach State, versus that of all of the schools that you want to expel from the WCC.

I'm not changing criteria at all. No matter how good everyone in the league is someone will finish last.

When the same teams finish at the bottom every year, it's not just "their turn" to finish last -- they are doormats and the overall strength of the league would be improved by replacing them with consistent winners (like Dayton and VCU, not like Long Beach State), regardless of whether the doormats play their games in a 4,000 seat gym or in Madison Square Garden.

Still waiting for you to give us the financial numbers confirming your assertion that schools like Long Beach State and New Mexico State are spending 2 or 3 times as much on basketball as those WCC schools. The data isn't that hard to find. I'm sure you'll be linking that financial data for us in your next comment.

(10-25-2017 11:31 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Schools in FB conferences like Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC and MWC are stuck because they are together for FB reasons and BBall takes a back seat at those conferences. But the schools not playing FBS FB could and possibly should realign. Some of these conferences could be better off cutting some dead weight and adding schools who take BBall more seriously. For instance in the A-10 how much better would they be if they dropped Duquesne for say Iona or Seina?

Creating 11 team conferences with strength of basketball and region in mind could help a lot of these programs out who want to succeed in the sport and not be weighed down by schools who don't care as much. Let the cream rise to the top and band together to create some strength of their own.

Basketball takes a back seat in the American? Not really. You have Cincinnati, Wichita State, UConn, Memphis, SMU, Temple, Houston, maybe Tulsa. Multiple bids every year. That's as many or more good BB teams as FB.

How many good basketball teams in the SEC, for example? UK, Florida? Who else? UTk sometimes? LSU sometimes? Bama maybe? So Car sometimes?

(10-26-2017 06:00 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 11:31 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Schools in FB conferences like Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC and MWC are stuck because they are together for FB reasons and BBall takes a back seat at those conferences. But the schools not playing FBS FB could and possibly should realign. Some of these conferences could be better off cutting some dead weight and adding schools who take BBall more seriously. For instance in the A-10 how much better would they be if they dropped Duquesne for say Iona or Seina?

Creating 11 team conferences with strength of basketball and region in mind could help a lot of these programs out who want to succeed in the sport and not be weighed down by schools who don't care as much. Let the cream rise to the top and band together to create some strength of their own.

Basketball takes a back seat in the American? Not really. You have Cincinnati, Wichita State, UConn, Memphis, SMU, Temple, Houston, maybe Tulsa. Multiple bids every year. That's as many or more good BB teams as FB.

How many good basketball teams in the SEC, for example? UK, Florida? Who else? UTk sometimes? LSU sometimes? Bama maybe? So Car sometimes?

Basketball definitely takes a backseat in the AAC. That conference and it's members are more focused on FB with the obvious exception of WSU.

(10-26-2017 01:25 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 07:42 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 06:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 04:50 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(10-25-2017 03:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Six of the schools that you named are already in the WCC, and there's no compelling reason for them to leave the WCC. There's little or nothing for them to gain in men's basketball power ratings by hypothetically replacing the other four WCC teams with programs from other conferences that are not even on the level of St. Mary's or BYU, let alone the level of Gonzaga. For example, it's not nearly as much power-ratings gain as the Big East would get by replacing DePaul and St. John's with Dayton and VCU. And we know the Big East isn't going to do that, so there's no reason to talk about WCC schools doing something that would have far less positive impact in men's basketball.

Except those programs take basketball seriously and invest heavily in their programs. DePaul has a new arena opening this season right on the lake front. Mark Few himself has been complaining about the level of investment in the bottom half of the WCC. Not to mention that the two Big East schools you mentioned are in the #1 and #3 TV markets in the country and home to many many alums from the conference.

Yeah, the top half of the WCC would definitely be involved and they would definitely benefit from aligning with schools like Hawaii, New Mexico and Long Beach St while leaving behind those not willing to invest in their programs and stop playing in glorified high school gyms.

Now you have completely changed your criteria. Before it was all about basketball results; now you're prioritizing teams that consistently lose in shiny new arenas over teams like Saint Mary's that consistently win in old gyms.

Also: If "level of investment" is now important, then show us real data about the level of men's basketball investment at, say, Long Beach State, versus that of all of the schools that you want to expel from the WCC.

I'm not changing criteria at all. No matter how good everyone in the league is someone will finish last.

When the same teams finish at the bottom every year, it's not just "their turn" to finish last -- they are doormats and the overall strength of the league would be improved by replacing them with consistent winners (like Dayton and VCU, not like Long Beach State), regardless of whether the doormats play their games in a 4,000 seat gym or in Madison Square Garden.

Still waiting for you to give us the financial numbers confirming your assertion that schools like Long Beach State and New Mexico State are spending 2 or 3 times as much on basketball as those WCC schools. The data isn't that hard to find. I'm sure you'll be linking that financial data for us in your next comment.

Well you're trying to change the argument for some reason. Also like I said those two schools bring more to the league in the fact they are in the #1 and #3 Tv markets and home to many alum from across the conference so they bring something to the league while down. It's clear the bottom dwellers of the WCC bring little if any money to the conference.

So are you saying Few is wrong? I'm sure he knows more about the WCC than you who for some reason is really offended by my idea. The better teams in the WCC, Big West and WAC banding together would clearly create a better conference than any of those by themselves.