(10-26-2017 04:17 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Do you work for the FAA or something?

You are constantly citing specific plane crashes as metaphors for various situations...

Not criticizing, just find it interesting... Hahah.

I wish! No, I am just an aviation nut. I also travel a lot (list of airports for the year in my signature), so I am well versed in the industry, patterns etc. I remember when I was 7, and was traveling unaccompanied longhaul, the pilots let me fly in the cockpit of a 747 the whole way.

From a comparison standpoint, I think it is good because aviation is a field that demands perfection. You can't try crazy stunts for the heck of it, nor can you afford to be sloppy. Both traits I find admirable, personally, as well as think Rice Football needs more of. I cite the accidents as that's what happens when you are sloppy, careless or incompetent. Sure, the stakes here are lower (no one will die), but the mentality is key.

I can draw the parallels better too between what I see and what I know. guys like Hambone and ruowls and others are far more qualified to draw a football comparison than I am.

My guess Ant is knee deep in the aerospace community somehow.

And there is a certain beauty about comparing NCAA athletic programs to *different* types and styles of aeronautic failures.

My favorite was the one about the (cant remember the name) oscillation....

Perhaps Ham and RU should try to compare ongoing aviation crashes to historical NCAA athletic failures for a complete 360 view for our nerd-centric community.

(10-26-2017 04:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  My guess Ant is knee deep in the aerospace community somehow.

And there is a certain beauty about comparing NCAA athletic programs to *different* types and styles of aeronautic failures.

My favorite was the one about the (cant remember the name) oscillation....

phugoid. It was JAL 123 that was an example of a phugoid oscillation.

illiniowl gets the credit. Great great reference. http://csnbbs.com/thread-829318-post-146...id14665850

(10-26-2017 04:55 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  My guess Ant is knee deep in the aerospace community somehow.

And there is a certain beauty about comparing NCAA athletic programs to *different* types and styles of aeronautic failures.

My favorite was the one about the (cant remember the name) oscillation....

phugoid. It was JAL 123 that was an example of a phugoid oscillation.

illiniowl gets the credit. Great great reference. http://csnbbs.com/thread-829318-post-146...id14665850

Have to make a flaschcard reminder on that name. Never know when one has to pull out the stops to outgeek another..... That one seems to have the earmarks of a king-killer in that regard.

(10-26-2017 04:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  My guess Ant is knee deep in the aerospace community somehow.

And there is a certain beauty about comparing NCAA athletic programs to *different* types and styles of aeronautic failures.

My favorite was the one about the (cant remember the name) oscillation....

Perhaps Ham and RU should try to compare ongoing aviation crashes to historical NCAA athletic failures for a complete 360 view for our nerd-centric community.

My brother just happens to be the lead pilot for an international company that has a small fleet of Lear jets. He flew the C suite to Italy and has been hanging out there for the last couple of weeks.

My aviation metaphor would be the story of Billy Mitchell with the Parliment taking on the role of Billy Mitchell.

There is hope.

(10-27-2017 09:56 AM)ruowls Wrote:  

(10-26-2017 04:53 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  My guess Ant is knee deep in the aerospace community somehow.

And there is a certain beauty about comparing NCAA athletic programs to *different* types and styles of aeronautic failures.

My favorite was the one about the (cant remember the name) oscillation....

Perhaps Ham and RU should try to compare ongoing aviation crashes to historical NCAA athletic failures for a complete 360 view for our nerd-centric community.

My brother just happens to be the lead pilot for an international company that has a small fleet of Lear jets. He flew the C suite to Italy and has been hanging out there for the last couple of weeks.

My aviation metaphor would be the story of Billy Mitchell with the Parliment taking on the role of Billy Mitchell.

There is hope.

And David Bailiff as the Ostfriesland?

(10-26-2017 04:11 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  I don't think that there has been anything for an optimist to point to with any degree of credibility for almost three years now. And I'm being very generous putting it that way, in my opinion.

I think it is ostensibly Bailiff that has gotten to decide whether or not Rice continues to employ... David Bailiff. That is what scares me about the decisions to come.

It has been 3-5 years now that I have expected him to be gone and looked forward to the next attempt to right the ship. (sorry to mix nautical terms into an aviation discussion)

And back to aviation metaphors, the first one that popped into my head was the Spruce Goose.

(10-27-2017 11:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  And back to aviation metaphors, the first one that popped into my head was the Spruce Goose.

Well that would at least provide a Rice connection.

(10-27-2017 11:35 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(10-27-2017 11:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  And back to aviation metaphors, the first one that popped into my head was the Spruce Goose.

Well that would at least provide a Rice connection.

He named it the Hercules.

At my 30th Rice reunion (2005), I sat at a table with a Continental captain I knew from Sid Rich and a retired submarine commander. I asked what happened wrong when a US submarine surfaced under a Japanese tourist boat. They said the subordinates would not tell the captain he was making a mistake because they did not think the captain could make a mistake. The airline captain told me that there were procedures to ensure that the co-pilot would speak up when the captain was making a mistake.

(10-31-2017 05:44 PM)75src Wrote:  At my 30th Rice reunion (2005), I sat at a table with a Continental captain I knew from Sid Rich and a retired submarine commander. I asked what happened wrong when a US submarine surfaced under a Japanese tourist boat. They said the subordinates would not tell the captain he was making a mistake because they did not think the captain could make a mistake. The airline captain told me that there were procedures to ensure that the co-pilot would speak up when the captain was making a mistake.

The term I have heard to describe it is Crew Resource Management (CRM).

It became a big thing in aviation after a series of accidents, primarily with Korean Air. Korean Air had a lot of military pilots and hierarchy was still ingrained; the pilot could and would overrule a subordinate. One example was KL 8509 - The captains artificial horizon failed. He thought the aircraft was rolling to one side. No one else in the cockpit said a word while a senior pilot turned a level plane to the side and crashed it.

A worthy read if anyone is interested: http://planetofearth.com/aaib-32003.pdf Key except

Quote:Investigations revealed that, throughout the accident flight, the captain's ADI indicated the correct pitch attitude but that the roll attitude remained at a wings level indication. Radar and Flight Data Recorder data showed that the aircraft commenced a turn to the left but that this turn was continuous until impact with the ground. At impact, the aircraft was assessed to be pitched approximately 40° nose down, banked close to 90° to the left and with a speed in the region of 250 to 300 kt.

Since a massive management and culture overhaul at Korean Air, they have not had a single incident.

(10-31-2017 05:44 PM)75src Wrote:  At my 30th Rice reunion (2005), I sat at a table with a Continental captain I knew from Sid Rich and a retired submarine commander. I asked what happened wrong when a US submarine surfaced under a Japanese tourist boat. They said the subordinateserved would not tell the captain he was making a mistake because they did not think the captain could make a mistake. The airline captain told me that there were procedures to ensure that the co-pilot would speak up when the captain was making a mistake.

If any Officer of the Deck or Junior Officer of the Deck failed to notify the CO or XO of any subsurface or surface contact that violates the Standing Orders then they deserved to have their head handed to them on a platter. Log entry of time anotification, and action taken saves their career. If no response from Command is received then take whatever action is necessary to ensure the safety of the vessel.

(10-31-2017 05:44 PM)75src Wrote:  At my 30th Rice reunion (2005), I sat at a table with a Continental captain I knew from Sid Rich and a retired submarine commander. I asked what happened wrong when a US submarine surfaced under a Japanese tourist boat. They said the subordinateserved would not tell the captain he was making a mistake because they did not think the captain could make a mistake. The airline captain told me that there were procedures to ensure that the co-pilot would speak up when the captain was making a mistake.

If any Officer of the Deck or Junior Officer of the Deck failed to notify the CO or XO of any subsurface or surface contact that violates the Standing Orders then they deserved to have their head handed to them on a platter. Log entry of time notification, and action taken saves their career. If no response from Command is received then take whatever action is necessary to ensure the safety of the vessel.