bikechuck
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RE: Halfway point of the season
I wonder if Hagan has made his last FG attempt at least until someone else is given an opportunity.
There is no longer a downside to making a change if there are any other options.
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10-16-2017 07:06 AM |
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NIUSAE
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RE: Halfway point of the season
Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
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10-16-2017 08:27 AM |
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badmoonrising13
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-15-2017 10:56 PM)Djud Wrote: (10-15-2017 10:16 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote: Please read the second part of my last post... And the first sentence.
You were Santa's biggest advocate for his first 91 passes; then you do a complete a 180 given his last 5 passes. Now you are on the Childers train; for now anyway.
The coaching staff has played their freshman QB in an ideal situation; between KSU, BU and our next opponent BGU; thier combined wins have come against Colegate, Howard, Miami Oh, Flaorida Atlantic, and well, KSU. Childers is getting an opportunity against soft opponents. Clearly, Childers is the type of QB Carey prefers. Like you, Careywas very happy with the way Childers played against BU; that's our new O, thrown short passes and hope for YAC; and have your QB be your leading rusher.
When you think about it, Santa actually did himself a disservice by bringing us back against SDSU in the 2nd half. If we continue to get blown out in that game the spotlight on the deadly sin; the pick on the potential game winning drive, never happens, and he would be the QB today.
It's all in the past now; Childers is your QB, and, barring injury, the only other QB you will see will be Graham.
Yes, Santa is a much, much better choice than Graham. I don't really care if Childers or Santa plays and I've said that many times. We can win with both. We are easily 2-4 with Graham, maybe 1-5. But for people to think a freshman can come into his first game and throw the ball around like Dan Marino is unrealistic. He needs time and reps to get better. Childers will get better completing the deep ball with more poise and timing with the receivers. He will also get much better with ball security. It was also Childers who came in the red zone to finish a drive fore SDSU. That also tells me he's a gamer but so is Santa. He showed that against EMU, Kent last year, and Nebraska/SDSU this year. If the coaches manage him better -- allow him to run, don't let him throw quick read passes (allow him to see routes develop), insert draws and screens, he can also lead us to great things. Will Childers or Santa improve enough for us to take down WMU and Toledo? We shall see. But we most likely lose with Graham. It's good to be in this position at 4-2 and be able to look forward to meaning MAC games.
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10-16-2017 08:37 AM |
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Teamduh
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 08:27 AM)NIUSAE Wrote: Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
Actually you are defending him and that is not bad. It is a team game and the BC 39 yard miss had a defender close him enough that it may have bothered him. He obviously is struggling. He may need things to go perfectly so he can make a few. Since it doesn't seem like we have a backup that is ready or better we may need Hagan to win a few close ones. Since they say kicking is mostly mental and repetition here is hoping he finds himself soon.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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10-16-2017 09:26 AM |
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NIU007
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RE: Halfway point of the season
IMO they need to get a Hagan a couple closer FGs to get him back in the groove.
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10-16-2017 09:44 AM |
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Djud
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 08:37 AM)badmoonrising13 Wrote: (10-15-2017 10:56 PM)Djud Wrote: (10-15-2017 10:16 PM)badmoonrising13 Wrote: Please read the second part of my last post... And the first sentence.
You were Santa's biggest advocate for his first 91 passes; then you do a complete a 180 given his last 5 passes. Now you are on the Childers train; for now anyway.
The coaching staff has played their freshman QB in an ideal situation; between KSU, BU and our next opponent BGU; thier combined wins have come against Colegate, Howard, Miami Oh, Flaorida Atlantic, and well, KSU. Childers is getting an opportunity against soft opponents. Clearly, Childers is the type of QB Carey prefers. Like you, Careywas very happy with the way Childers played against BU; that's our new O, thrown short passes and hope for YAC; and have your QB be your leading rusher.
When you think about it, Santa actually did himself a disservice by bringing us back against SDSU in the 2nd half. If we continue to get blown out in that game the spotlight on the deadly sin; the pick on the potential game winning drive, never happens, and he would be the QB today.
It's all in the past now; Childers is your QB, and, barring injury, the only other QB you will see will be Graham.
Yes, Santa is a much, much better choice than Graham. I don't really care if Childers or Santa plays and I've said that many times. We can win with both. We are easily 2-4 with Graham, maybe 1-5. But for people to think a freshman can come into his first game and throw the ball around like Dan Marino is unrealistic. He needs time and reps to get better. Childers will get better completing the deep ball with more poise and timing with the receivers. He will also get much better with ball security. It was also Childers who came in the red zone to finish a drive fore SDSU. That also tells me he's a gamer but so is Santa. He showed that against EMU, Kent last year, and Nebraska/SDSU this year. If the coaches manage him better -- allow him to run, don't let him throw quick read passes (allow him to see routes develop), insert draws and screens, he can also lead us to great things. Will Childers or Santa improve enough for us to take down WMU and Toledo? We shall see. But we most likely lose with Graham. It's good to be in this position at 4-2 and be able to look forward to meaning MAC games.
Fair post; I am spending way too much time on this site, and on this subject. Get use to the thought of Graham getting back the starting QB position; and I understand why. What you saw on Saturday was the offensive approach Carey wants. It is a matter of who fits this approach the best. Childers is a better runner than Graham; Graham is a better short route passer. Graham has a better grasp of the offense than any of the 3; thus the path of least disruption is likely Graham. Again, with our D and schedule this makes complete sense. Childers will get another game to grow against our weakest opponent outside of EIU. For the remainder of the year, you will see Childers exclusively until Graham is healthy. Santa is now the third option, and will likely be 4th next year with Hall in the mix. These last two games were the best opportunity for Santa to grow as well, but Carey has clearly decided on a different path. Against SDSU Santa's passing got Blake the player of the week; while completing a 81 yard strike to Tears; another point, Santa has had 1 quarter of play with our best receiver, Beebe. Carey has seen the good and the not so good, and he has made his decision.
I would really like one reporter to ask Carey, "under what circumstances would you use Santa again?"
Time to move on from the topic.
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10-16-2017 10:09 AM |
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Rabid Squirrel
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 10:09 AM)Djud Wrote: I would really like one reporter to ask Carey, "under what circumstances would you use Santa again?"
Time to move on from the topic.
If we get down 3 scores vs maybe Toledo, I think you'll see Santa. I don't believe he's done for the year. He's the only Q who can get 6 quick. We can't expect Childers to improve a lot in half a season as a freshman. Santa is like a break away running back who fumbles. If you're down 20 pts, you go to him and hope today is the day he holds onto the ball. At some point we are going to need fast scores. Only Santa has that ability right now.
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10-16-2017 10:28 AM |
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Djud
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 10:28 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: (10-16-2017 10:09 AM)Djud Wrote: I would really like one reporter to ask Carey, "under what circumstances would you use Santa again?"
Time to move on from the topic.
If we get down 3 scores vs maybe Toledo, I think you'll see Santa. I don't believe he's done for the year. He's the only Q who can get 6 quick. We can't expect Childers to improve a lot in half a season as a freshman. Santa is like a break away running back who fumbles. If you're down 20 pts, you go to him and hope today is the day he holds onto the ball. At some point we are going to need fast scores. Only Santa has that ability right now.
Your prior post was spot on; the way to minimize the bad with Santa and maximize the good was the 3 game stretch we are in right now against weak opponents. Instead, Carey opted for a change in direction. With our Defense, current offensive scheme, and schedule, I just don't see us ever being down by 20 points. That's why this situation is so interesting/crazy. You may have a kid whose only loss was to SDSU in a game he played incredibly well with the exception of the final 2 minutes, never see the field again.
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10-16-2017 10:36 AM |
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huskie1stdown
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RE: Halfway point of the season
We need to find a kicker fast.
I think we will pay for it if we have to go for it on 4th down when a 47 yard field goal could win the game.
This really scares me in a game with Toledo.
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10-16-2017 10:37 AM |
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Rabid Squirrel
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 10:36 AM)Djud Wrote: (10-16-2017 10:28 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: (10-16-2017 10:09 AM)Djud Wrote: I would really like one reporter to ask Carey, "under what circumstances would you use Santa again?"
Time to move on from the topic.
If we get down 3 scores vs maybe Toledo, I think you'll see Santa. I don't believe he's done for the year. He's the only Q who can get 6 quick. We can't expect Childers to improve a lot in half a season as a freshman. Santa is like a break away running back who fumbles. If you're down 20 pts, you go to him and hope today is the day he holds onto the ball. At some point we are going to need fast scores. Only Santa has that ability right now.
Your prior post was spot on; the way to minimize the bad with Santa and maximize the good was the 3 game stretch we are in right now against weak opponents. Instead, Carey opted for a change in direction. With our Defense, current offensive scheme, and schedule, I just don't see us ever being down by 20 points. That's why this situation is so interesting/crazy. You may have a kid whose only loss was to SDSU in a game he played incredibly well with the exception of the final 2 minutes, never see the field again.
Everyone expected Santa and Childers to have growing pains. It comes with young QBs. What's frustrating is that Santa had his. Fell flat on his face after a great start. And for now he doesn't get the chance to grow. He may have gotten great over the next couple games(or not, we'll never know). Not to be negative, but now we have to go through this with Childers. As he learns the job he's going to have a terrible game at some point. I almost hope it's this weekend so we can get it out of the way before the tougher part of the schedule.
It's hard to see how a kid is going to react to the pressure of being named the starter. Graham got worse when given the job. He's best off the bench. Let's hope Childers is the kind that likes that pressure.
I'd be very curious as to whom the team is mostly behind. I think I know who Tears and Blake like.
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10-16-2017 10:52 AM |
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badmoonrising13
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 10:36 AM)Djud Wrote: (10-16-2017 10:28 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: (10-16-2017 10:09 AM)Djud Wrote: I would really like one reporter to ask Carey, "under what circumstances would you use Santa again?"
Time to move on from the topic.
If we get down 3 scores vs maybe Toledo, I think you'll see Santa. I don't believe he's done for the year. He's the only Q who can get 6 quick. We can't expect Childers to improve a lot in half a season as a freshman. Santa is like a break away running back who fumbles. If you're down 20 pts, you go to him and hope today is the day he holds onto the ball. At some point we are going to need fast scores. Only Santa has that ability right now.
Your prior post was spot on; the way to minimize the bad with Santa and maximize the good was the 3 game stretch we are in right now against weak opponents. Instead, Carey opted for a change in direction. With our Defense, current offensive scheme, and schedule, I just don't see us ever being down by 20 points. That's why this situation is so interesting/crazy. You may have a kid whose only loss was to SDSU in a game he played incredibly well with the exception of the final 2 minutes, never see the field again.
Graham should never see the field again. Carey will lose the team if he starts Graham.
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10-16-2017 11:10 AM |
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bikechuck
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 08:27 AM)NIUSAE Wrote: Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
Thanks for pointing that out, I had not realized that was the case and successful FG kicking requires everyone on the field doing their jobs especially the snapper and holder but also the line.
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10-16-2017 08:22 PM |
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BDB5yp
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 08:22 PM)bikechuck Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:27 AM)NIUSAE Wrote: Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
Thanks for pointing that out, I had not realized that was the case and successful FG kicking requires everyone on the field doing their jobs especially the snapper and holder but also the line.
Do they practice snapping and kicking? Geez.....
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10-16-2017 08:57 PM |
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MaddDawgz02
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 08:57 PM)BDB5yp Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:22 PM)bikechuck Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:27 AM)NIUSAE Wrote: Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
Thanks for pointing that out, I had not realized that was the case and successful FG kicking requires everyone on the field doing their jobs especially the snapper and holder but also the line.
Do they practice snapping and kicking? Geez.....
Tough to blame much of Hagan's struggles on snaps, his confidence is so completely shot, and he has been put in some tough spots to exacerbate the problem also.
You want to talk about bad snaps, holy freaking cow on Whitehair of the Bears, so amazingly insane how he cannot snap the ball.
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10-16-2017 11:47 PM |
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NIUpride
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-16-2017 11:47 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:57 PM)BDB5yp Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:22 PM)bikechuck Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:27 AM)NIUSAE Wrote: Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
Thanks for pointing that out, I had not realized that was the case and successful FG kicking requires everyone on the field doing their jobs especially the snapper and holder but also the line.
Do they practice snapping and kicking? Geez.....
Tough to blame much of Hagan's struggles on snaps, his confidence is so completely shot, and he has been put in some tough spots to exacerbate the problem also.
You want to talk about bad snaps, holy freaking cow on Whitehair of the Bears, so amazingly insane how he cannot snap the ball.
The leader of our anemic offense this year is Christian Hagan with 31 points, Wimann is second with 24.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 12:19 AM by NIUpride.)
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10-17-2017 12:18 AM |
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MaddDawgz02
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-17-2017 12:18 AM)NIUpride Wrote: (10-16-2017 11:47 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:57 PM)BDB5yp Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:22 PM)bikechuck Wrote: (10-16-2017 08:27 AM)NIUSAE Wrote: Not defending Hagan but on both kicks the snaps were bad.
Thanks for pointing that out, I had not realized that was the case and successful FG kicking requires everyone on the field doing their jobs especially the snapper and holder but also the line.
Do they practice snapping and kicking? Geez.....
Tough to blame much of Hagan's struggles on snaps, his confidence is so completely shot, and he has been put in some tough spots to exacerbate the problem also.
You want to talk about bad snaps, holy freaking cow on Whitehair of the Bears, so amazingly insane how he cannot snap the ball.
The leader of our anemic offense this year is Christian Hagan with 31 points, Wimann is second with 24.
There isn't a whole lot of skill out there , that's for sure
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10-17-2017 12:31 AM |
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bikechuck
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-17-2017 12:31 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: There isn't a whole lot of skill out there , that's for sure
We have a ton of skill on this team including at wide receiver. Unfortunately the one QB that has proven that he can get them the ball and execute the offense has been benched.
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10-17-2017 09:59 AM |
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NIU007
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-17-2017 09:59 AM)bikechuck Wrote: (10-17-2017 12:31 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: There isn't a whole lot of skill out there , that's for sure
We have a ton of skill on this team including at wide receiver. Unfortunately the one QB that has proven that he can get them the ball and execute the offense has been benched.
The coach prefers throwing long (incomplete), Huff up the middle for 2 yards against a stacked box, and a Childers run for 5 yards against a stacked box, then punt, rather than 4 TDs mixed in with a couple turnovers. Never mind that the short drives are essentially turnovers.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2017 10:54 AM by NIU007.)
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10-17-2017 10:54 AM |
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armour248
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-17-2017 10:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote: The coach prefers throwing long (incomplete), Huff up the middle for 2 yards against a stacked box, and a Childers run for 5 yards against a stacked box, then punt, rather than 4 TDs mixed in with a couple turnovers. Never mind that the short drives are essentially turnovers.
I'm sure Uremovich (who is calling the plays, not Carey) doesn't prefer throwing long incomplete passes. Obviously he prefers running the ball and short high percentage routes when Childers is in the game. I'm not sure you can say that the deep passes were bad calls when a few of them would have been sure TDs if the QB had any accuracy whatsoever. You're also complaining about throwing deep passes but then also about the box being stacked...deep passes would presumably make the box more open. Uremovich can't run block or throw deep balls, both of which seem to be issues for this team. If Childers could complete even 40% of his deep passes then the offense would open up. If the offensive line was creating consistent running lanes then we wouldn't be getting two yard carries.
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10-17-2017 11:09 AM |
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NIU007
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RE: Halfway point of the season
(10-17-2017 11:09 AM)armour248 Wrote: (10-17-2017 10:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote: The coach prefers throwing long (incomplete), Huff up the middle for 2 yards against a stacked box, and a Childers run for 5 yards against a stacked box, then punt, rather than 4 TDs mixed in with a couple turnovers. Never mind that the short drives are essentially turnovers.
I'm sure Uremovich (who is calling the plays, not Carey) doesn't prefer throwing long incomplete passes. Obviously he prefers running the ball and short high percentage routes when Childers is in the game. I'm not sure you can say that the deep passes were bad calls when a few of them would have been sure TDs if the QB had any accuracy whatsoever. You're also complaining about throwing deep passes but then also about the box being stacked...deep passes would presumably make the box more open. Uremovich can't run block or throw deep balls, both of which seem to be issues for this team. If Childers could complete even 40% of his deep passes then the offense would open up. If the offensive line was creating consistent running lanes then we wouldn't be getting two yard carries.
That's the whole point. They are stacking the box because we can't hit the long passes. They'll let us try those all day, makes their job on defense easier.
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10-17-2017 11:13 AM |
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