(10-12-2017 08:32 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 07:39 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 04:02 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:27 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Once again, look at the roster Purdue had and they paid a premium for the #1 option of a current HC looking to move up to a P5 program. He's been doing this a while with his own people. Without looking, my guess is Purdue's staff is mostly guys that already worked with Brohm. None of the coaches on this staff have ever worked for this HC let alone each other.

Relax people. This is not that complicated. We have a totally new staff with new ways of doing things and new schemes, a bad roster that learned bad habits for 4 years, and a tough schedule. Y'all knew this was coming. Or should have.

Agree on Purdue coaching staff (Brohm). But their roster? Didn't see talent there last year or 4 years ago when they came to Nippert. Without looking I'd guess they recruited worse than us over the past 4-5 years.

Purdue's classes have been ranked very similar to UC the past 4-5 years, averaging in the 60's. Coaching staff and player development was really bad.

I'm not saying our guys are exactly top grade recruits, because they're certainly not, but I think people are getting a little carried away with bashing the quality of the roster. I've been to every game this year except Navy, and I think it's more a case of poor execution and lack of experience than a severe lack of raw athletic talent, especially at the back end of the roster. Part of this is on a first time HC and a staff who have never worked together as a unit before this season, and part is due to players dealing with the culture shock of no longer working in a country club environment. A big litmus test IMO will be getting a bye week to lick their wounds/regroup and playing a 2nd half schedule that doesn't feature four ranked opponents in the first seven games.
It seems like things are getting a little testy down there. Heard Tony Pike on the radio saying that he was no longer allowed in the locker room, and I know the medical staff are no longer allowed in either. Pike said he now hears fans yelling the same stuff at Fickell that was yelled at Tubs last year.

THIS! UC certainly needs a talent upgrade, but even with the players they have, the coaching staff has not coached them up a level which is what I thought would happen with Fickell. We're only halfway thru year 1 so I'm not getting too concerned. But if was to grade Fickell right now he'd get a D on coaching and a B on recruiting.

As for the fans, that's what comes with sports. There isn't a college or pro sports team in America without its core of idiot fans. Some teams have worse fans than others but they all have some amount of knuckleheads. It just comes with the territory.

(10-12-2017 09:19 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 08:32 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 07:39 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 04:02 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:27 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Once again, look at the roster Purdue had and they paid a premium for the #1 option of a current HC looking to move up to a P5 program. He's been doing this a while with his own people. Without looking, my guess is Purdue's staff is mostly guys that already worked with Brohm. None of the coaches on this staff have ever worked for this HC let alone each other.

Relax people. This is not that complicated. We have a totally new staff with new ways of doing things and new schemes, a bad roster that learned bad habits for 4 years, and a tough schedule. Y'all knew this was coming. Or should have.

Agree on Purdue coaching staff (Brohm). But their roster? Didn't see talent there last year or 4 years ago when they came to Nippert. Without looking I'd guess they recruited worse than us over the past 4-5 years.

Purdue's classes have been ranked very similar to UC the past 4-5 years, averaging in the 60's. Coaching staff and player development was really bad.

I'm not saying our guys are exactly top grade recruits, because they're certainly not, but I think people are getting a little carried away with bashing the quality of the roster. I've been to every game this year except Navy, and I think it's more a case of poor execution and lack of experience than a severe lack of raw athletic talent, especially at the back end of the roster. Part of this is on a first time HC and a staff who have never worked together as a unit before this season, and part is due to players dealing with the culture shock of no longer working in a country club environment. A big litmus test IMO will be getting a bye week to lick their wounds/regroup and playing a 2nd half schedule that doesn't feature four ranked opponents in the first seven games.
It seems like things are getting a little testy down there. Heard Tony Pike on the radio saying that he was no longer allowed in the locker room, and I know the medical staff are no longer allowed in either. Pike said he now hears fans yelling the same stuff at Fickell that was yelled at Tubs last year.

THIS! UC certainly needs a talent upgrade, but even with the players they have, the coaching staff has not coached them up a level which is what I thought would happen with Fickell. We're only halfway thru year 1 so I'm not getting too concerned. But if was to grade Fickell right now he'd get a D on coaching and a B on recruiting.

As for the fans, that's what comes with sports. There isn't a college or pro sports team in America without its core of idiot fans. Some teams have worse fans than others but they all have some amount of knuckleheads. It just comes with the territory.

Agreed. And while I think it's way too early to boo this staff, it comes with the territory when you're making millions of dollars a year. Way better than apathy IMO

(10-12-2017 09:15 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

JackieTreehorn Wrote:  It seems like things are getting a little testy down there. Heard Tony Pike on the radio saying that he was no longer allowed in the locker room, and I know the medical staff are no longer allowed in either. Pike said he now hears fans yelling the same stuff at Fickell that was yelled at Tubs last year.

Tony Pike and medical staff not being allowed in the locker room? Wtf is going on down there? Is that an indication of trouble in the locker room?

I recall that after the UCF loss nobody was available to the media postgame, players that is.

(10-12-2017 10:30 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 09:15 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

JackieTreehorn Wrote:  It seems like things are getting a little testy down there. Heard Tony Pike on the radio saying that he was no longer allowed in the locker room, and I know the medical staff are no longer allowed in either. Pike said he now hears fans yelling the same stuff at Fickell that was yelled at Tubs last year.

Tony Pike and medical staff not being allowed in the locker room? Wtf is going on down there? Is that an indication of trouble in the locker room?

I recall that after the UCF loss nobody was available to the media postgame, players that is.

Ah, that would make sense in the immediate aftermath of that game.

(10-12-2017 09:02 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The bolded is a damn shame. Unfortunately, the sports fan in this town is so sick of seeing its sports team lose year after year and are starving for a winner (this include the Bearcats, Bengals and the Reds). I think it is going to get much worse if things don't start turning around in this back half of the season.

Although I've lived in the Cincinnati area off and on for over 20 years, I still don't understand how the plight of the Bengals and Reds impacts UC fans.

My satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the pro teams I follow has no impact on my UC fandom. The Penguins winning the cup didn't make it easier to tolerate the disaster that was UC football last season.

(10-12-2017 09:15 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

JackieTreehorn Wrote:  It seems like things are getting a little testy down there. Heard Tony Pike on the radio saying that he was no longer allowed in the locker room, and I know the medical staff are no longer allowed in either. Pike said he now hears fans yelling the same stuff at Fickell that was yelled at Tubs last year.

Tony Pike and medical staff not being allowed in the locker room? Wtf is going on down there? Is that an indication of trouble in the locker room?

I kind of get the sense that it's more of an attempt to cut down distractions in the locker room. At any rate Tony said it made his before the start of the 2nd half interview easier, said he could just ask, "so Coach, what was discussed at halftime?"

You know,,,,, I'm really not buying this "Talent Gap" thing... I agree,, that our primary problem is speed in the secondary.... The rest of our problems are: penalties, turnovers, dropped passes, mistakes, get Hayden to stop starring down his receivers..... Those are not talent problems... Even the OLine was able to give Hayden time to throw last week...
Maybe,,, I'm missing something,, if we can some how gain some speed in the secondary, I don't think we are that far away....

(10-12-2017 01:34 PM)KCat Wrote:  You know,,,,, I'm really not buying this "Talent Gap" thing... I agree,, that our primary problem is speed in the secondary.... The rest of our problems are: penalties, turnovers, dropped passes, mistakes, get Hayden to stop starring down his receivers..... Those are not talent problems... Even the OLine was able to give Hayden time to throw last week...
Maybe,,, I'm missing something,, if we can some how gain some speed in the secondary, I don't think we are that far away....

I'd say speed and skill in the secondary are both lacking. That unit is an absolute trainwreck and it shows. I think our linebackers are average to below average for the league. I generally like our defensive line.

On offense I think the line is a huge issue, but they've managed to be serviceable in pass protection. They don't get any push and the running lanes are few and far between. As much as the offense has struggled at times...we've actually seen some improvement from that group throwing out the huge mistakes in the Marshall game. I just fear the back end of our defense is so far behind any competent offense is going to really take advantage.

Why isn't Tyrell Gilbert playing safety.... Wasn't he playing that position last year....

(10-12-2017 01:59 PM)KCat Wrote:  Why isn't Tyrell Gilbert playing safety.... Wasn't he playing that position last year....

because we don't have the linebackers (hence there is a talent gap/problem).

Jaylyin Minor and Gilbert are the only upperclassman in our linebacker corps. Perry Young is a sophomore (and at 5'8 should be a safety as well). The rest are all true or redshirt freshmen.

(10-12-2017 02:05 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 01:59 PM)KCat Wrote:  Why isn't Tyrell Gilbert playing safety.... Wasn't he playing that position last year....

because we don't have the linebackers (hence there is a talent gap/problem).

Jaylyin Minor and Gilbert are the only upperclassman in our linebacker corps. Perry Young is a sophomore (and at 5'8 should be a safety as well). The rest are all true or redshirt freshmen.

==============================================

I view what you're saying as a lack of personnel problem, not a talent problem... We have some holes to fill...

It's both. Gaps and talent.

(10-12-2017 01:34 PM)KCat Wrote:  You know,,,,, I'm really not buying this "Talent Gap" thing... I agree,, that our primary problem is speed in the secondary.... The rest of our problems are: penalties, turnovers, dropped passes, mistakes, get Hayden to stop starring down his receivers..... Those are not talent problems... Even the OLine was able to give Hayden time to throw last week...
Maybe,,, I'm missing something,, if we can some how gain some speed in the secondary, I don't think we are that far away....

Sometimes the talent and discipline go hand in hand. Less talented guys are going to be trying to "think" and "play harder" to stack up to what is expected of them instead of naturally being able to play the game. You have to play catch up because of being less athletic or having less of a feel for the game and you end up committing penalties- whether getting there late (pass interference or late hit) or just in frustration (personal foul). Add on top of it bad habits learned the last 2 or 3 years. Sometimes it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

I know a lot of people were hoping for some miraculous adrenaline boost turnaround. The schedule hasn't exactly been easy. And after watching these guys play for several years- it looks like we have the same repeat offenders. It's not like the new guys are playin awful- I am quite encouraged by their play- Young, Doaks, Warren, Dublanko, Deguara to name a few. But we got to develop the new talent, fill in the gaps, and reverse 4 years of apathetic when's my tee time culture. I think we need to take this season with a grain-nay- a heavy dose of salt. Give Fick a chance.

If anyone really thinks we do not have a talent gap, hell just limit it to the secondary and the O-line, can't do nuttin fer em'.

Our safeties would ride the pine at some Ohio high schools. We have significant gaps.

(10-12-2017 04:04 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If anyone really thinks we do not have a talent gap, hell just limit it to the secondary and the O-line, can't do nuttin fer em'.

Exactly. We are just not close at those positions. Lb we have some talent but no depth or experience. A ton to rebuild.

So then, what needs to happen to shore things up? If interest drops too low... will that mean a bunch of JuCo's? That can be kind of hit or miss in it's own right.

(10-12-2017 10:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  So then, what needs to happen to shore things up? If interest drops too low... will that mean a bunch of JuCo's? That can be kind of hit or miss in it's own right.

Time.

Tuberville's numerous JUCOs were a contributing factor to our depth and talent problems. We may end up with one this recruiting cycle though.

(10-12-2017 10:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  So then, what needs to happen to shore things up? If interest drops too low... will that mean a bunch of JuCo's? That can be kind of hit or miss in it's own right.

That's the good thing. Interest has not dropped. Fickell is recruiting like a mad man. My advice, get behind the coach, he has some warts but are easily curable.

(10-12-2017 10:43 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  

(10-12-2017 10:08 PM)Recluse1 Wrote:  So then, what needs to happen to shore things up? If interest drops too low... will that mean a bunch of JuCo's? That can be kind of hit or miss in it's own right.

Time.

Tuberville's numerous JUCOs were a contributing factor to our depth and talent problems. We may end up with one this recruiting cycle though.

Numerous? There's only been a handful. You make it sound like they were half the roster.