jtacnews.com/9672/student-life/tarleton-creates-task-force-for-potential-d-i-invite/

Besides Tarleton St, Texas A&M-Commerce is rumored to be preparing for a Southland invite. Another rumor is that Prairie View A&M has been approached to change conferences. Because PVAM is an A&M system school, they may be open to it.

With the DII Lonestar Conference just merging with the Heartland Conference, something is up. Still suspect that Sam Houston St, SFA, and Lamar may leave for FBS or that Louisiana schools may be forced to merge, which would create havoc in the Southland.

A WAC could take them in, UTRGV starts FB with FBS as the goal and Wichita St and Mo St go fb only with the WAC. There has been coaches talk that fb schools will come to the WAC.

WAC football would be

NMSU
UTRGV
Sam Houston St
S F Austin
Lamar
Wichita St (fb only)
Mo St (fb only)

McNeese St, Incarnate Word, and UCA seem like stretches.

With the Southland having so many schools, something big is coming down the pike for it to consider expansion.

I'll bite on this.

I wonder if some of the top Southland schools are thinking about FBS. they know the Southland will likely kick them out so perhaps they have a plan concocted to get the WAC to take them. As FBS Indy programs they can play eachother, NMSU, Liberty, and UMass to fill their schedules.

Naturally if the Southland is losing members the place t go is the best of the Lonestar and I think their best could make it against the Southland especially if SFA, Sam Houston St, and Lamar move up.

Both the former coaches of mbb at Seattle and NMSU have said this spring that fb schools were coming to the WAC. Was derided on the WAC board and elsewhere for taking that talk seriously.

For a Texas school to have fb, it almost has to be FBS to be taken seriously. SHSU and Lamar have made FBS a clear goal for years.

It looks like UIW and ACU are coming off the transitional dole. Could the Southland split into two FCS-centric leagues? This could guarantee the WAC's (or Summit's) survival, and allow quite a few schools to get out of their current situation.

In the worst case for the Summit, it can take several Southland schools and form a stable FCS conference apart from the MVFC:

North - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Denver, Omaha
South - ORU, SHSU, SFA, UCA, Lamar, A&M-CC

This yields an 8/12 setup (no football at Denver, Omaha, Corpus Christi, and Oral Roberts). The Southland then gets left with this lineup:

ACU, UIW, HBU, Nicholas St, McNesse St, Northwestern St, New Orleans, SE Louisiana, Tarleton St

If the Southland wants to go to 10 members, it can bail UTRGV out of the WAC.

The WAC would really need the Southland to get to 12 in football (with Tarleton fully transitioned) before splitting, but UTRGV has talked about adding football as well. Of course if the intent is not FCS, but FBS, then there is no need to add a set number of schools at any particular time.

The only drawback to blowing up the WAC is that schools like Utah Valley and Cal Baptist only have so many options for changing conferences. The Southland and WAC also need at least eight schools apiece, so right now there would need to be at least four non-FCS schools involved:

WAC - UMKC*, NMSU*, UTRGV*, UCA, SFA, Lamar, SHSU, ACU, Tarleton
SLC - A&MCC*, UNO*, SELA, McNeese, Nicholas, NSU, HBU, UIW

At this point to place the rest of the WAC, you would need the Summit basically to be down to six schools (ORU to WAC or SLC), then adding the rest of the WAC to get enough schools that play baseball:

West - CSUB, CBU, GCU, UVU, Seattle
East - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Omaha, Denver

Of course Denver will probably join the Southland before sharing a conference with Grand Canyon.

(10-09-2017 10:06 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  It looks like UIW and ACU are coming off the transitional dole. Could the Southland split into two FCS-centric leagues? This could guarantee the WAC's (or Summit's) survival, and allow quite a few schools to get out of their current situation.

In the worst case for the Summit, it can take several Southland schools and form a stable FCS conference apart from the MVFC:

North - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Denver, Omaha
South - ORU, SHSU, SFA, UCA, Lamar, A&M-CC

This yields an 8/12 setup (no football at Denver, Omaha, Corpus Christi, and Oral Roberts). The Southland then gets left with this lineup:

ACU, UIW, HBU, Nicholas St, McNesse St, Northwestern St, New Orleans, SE Louisiana, Tarleton St

If the Southland wants to go to 10 members, it can bail UTRGV out of the WAC.

The WAC would really need the Southland to get to 12 in football (with Tarleton fully transitioned) before splitting, but UTRGV has talked about adding football as well. Of course if the intent is not FCS, but FBS, then there is no need to add a set number of schools at any particular time.

The only drawback to blowing up the WAC is that schools like Utah Valley and Cal Baptist only have so many options for changing conferences. The Southland and WAC also need at least eight schools apiece, so right now there would need to be at least four non-FCS schools involved:

WAC - UMKC*, NMSU*, UTRGV*, UCA, SFA, Lamar, SHSU, ACU, Tarleton
SLC - A&MCC*, UNO*, SELA, McNeese, Nicholas, NSU, HBU, UIW

At this point to place the rest of the WAC, you would need the Summit basically to be down to six schools (ORU to WAC or SLC), then adding the rest of the WAC to get enough schools that play baseball:

West - CSUB, CBU, GCU, UVU, Seattle
East - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Omaha, Denver

Of course Denver will probably join the Southland before sharing a conference with Grand Canyon.

Still convinced that the Montanas and Idaho will join the Summit. Have followed UND's story for years so much more far familiar with the Montana talk than anyone here. The Big Sky schools have always been afraid that the Montanas would prefer the Dakotas for academics and rivalries, which are superior to anything the Big Sky offered once Idaho, Boise St and Nevada left.

Denver needs UND as much as we need them. The Denver move to the Summit had much more strategic implications that Denver didn't reveal at the time, but most people bought the GCU non-profit issue because Denver kept their strategic tactics to themselves. Denver tried to get into the Big Sky but was rebuffed by the slacker schools for not having football. The Montanas and Idaho want to associate with them too as well as the Dakotas.

(10-09-2017 10:06 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  It looks like UIW and ACU are coming off the transitional dole. Could the Southland split into two FCS-centric leagues? This could guarantee the WAC's (or Summit's) survival, and allow quite a few schools to get out of their current situation.

In the worst case for the Summit, it can take several Southland schools and form a stable FCS conference apart from the MVFC:

North - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Denver, Omaha
South - ORU, SHSU, SFA, UCA, Lamar, A&M-CC

This yields an 8/12 setup (no football at Denver, Omaha, Corpus Christi, and Oral Roberts). The Southland then gets left with this lineup:

ACU, UIW, HBU, Nicholas St, McNesse St, Northwestern St, New Orleans, SE Louisiana, Tarleton St

If the Southland wants to go to 10 members, it can bail UTRGV out of the WAC.

The WAC would really need the Southland to get to 12 in football (with Tarleton fully transitioned) before splitting, but UTRGV has talked about adding football as well. Of course if the intent is not FCS, but FBS, then there is no need to add a set number of schools at any particular time.

The only drawback to blowing up the WAC is that schools like Utah Valley and Cal Baptist only have so many options for changing conferences. The Southland and WAC also need at least eight schools apiece, so right now there would need to be at least four non-FCS schools involved:

WAC - UMKC*, NMSU*, UTRGV*, UCA, SFA, Lamar, SHSU, ACU, Tarleton
SLC - A&MCC*, UNO*, SELA, McNeese, Nicholas, NSU, HBU, UIW

At this point to place the rest of the WAC, you would need the Summit basically to be down to six schools (ORU to WAC or SLC), then adding the rest of the WAC to get enough schools that play baseball:

West - CSUB, CBU, GCU, UVU, Seattle
East - UND, NDSU, USD, SDSU, Omaha, Denver

Of course Denver will probably join the Southland before sharing a conference with Grand Canyon.

Central Oklahoma and Arkansas Tech have been on the rumor boards for Southland Conference for years. Harding have been thinking of moving to D1. If Central Oklahoma goes? NE Oklahoma State could join the GAC with Arkansas Tech goes. Remember the article I posted about NE Oklahoma State talking about moving to an all Oklahoma conference? NE Oklahoma State could go to the GAC as a full member with the other Oklahoma schools.

West Texas A&M, Angelo State, UTPB and Midwestern State all with Kingsville could move to D1 as well. Southland east could formed an all Louisiana/Arkansas conference with maybe a Missouri S&T and Missouri Southern as as possible northern conference.

Other football schools that could move up to the WAC? Colorado Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, Azusa Pacific, Dixie State and maybe Central Washington.

Langston wants to move to D2. Bacone could join them in GAC.

Carroll, Montana could move to RMAC.

(10-09-2017 10:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Central Oklahoma and Arkansas Tech have been on the rumor boards for Southland Conference for years. Harding have been thinking of moving to D1. If Central Oklahoma goes? NE Oklahoma State could join the GAC with Arkansas Tech goes. Remember the article I posted about NE Oklahoma State talking about moving to an all Oklahoma conference? NE Oklahoma State could go to the GAC as a full member with the other Oklahoma schools.

West Texas A&M, Angelo State, UTPB and Midwestern State all with Kingsville could move to D1 as well. Southland east could formed an all Louisiana/Arkansas conference with maybe a Missouri S&T and Missouri Southern as as possible northern conference.

This delusional fantasy has grown very tiresome. ATU has NO desire for D1.

Tarleton St announced a master plan back in 2007 to go DI.

Now they have increased enrollment to >12k, improved minor sports facilities, and raised their athletic fees to afford the annual cost. The Southland wants and needs a DFW presence which they last had when UTA left. Tarleton St is not directly in DFW, but close enough to the western environs. UTAM-Commerce would bookend the east side of the Metroplex, as those two schools would bring much more value to the Southland than any other Lone Star school.

Think this is inevitable.

there is zero chance that Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston or Lamar could survive in D1-A football

they will kill their programs if they even try

they do not come close to having the budgets, fan, financial or alumni support nor do they come close to having the facilities

I would see it as highly possible the Texas legislature steps in to stop it if they try as well

(10-10-2017 12:41 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  there is zero chance that Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston or Lamar could survive in D1-A football

they will kill their programs if they even try

they do not come close to having the budgets, fan, financial or alumni support nor do they come close to having the facilities

I would see it as highly possible the Texas legislature steps in to stop it if they try as well

The Texas schools all have much greater athletic budgets and enrollment than Louisiana-Monroe by at least $3 mill. Going FBS is only 44 more expensive if one goes the cheap route like ULM. The programs will not be gold plated like other Texas teams.

If the Texas legislature does something, more money can be saved by going after high school districts, which gold plate their stadiums and programs.

(10-10-2017 12:41 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  there is zero chance that Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston or Lamar could survive in D1-A football

they will kill their programs if they even try

they do not come close to having the budgets, fan, financial or alumni support nor do they come close to having the facilities

I would see it as highly possible the Texas legislature steps in to stop it if they try as well

Lamar wants FBS because of the Sooners connections.

Huh. There is a school called Incarnate Word.

Southland needs a 12th football and 14th all sports to balance the schedules out.

(10-10-2017 08:15 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Huh. There is a school called Incarnate Word.

Catholic school in San Antonio.

(10-10-2017 02:36 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 12:41 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  there is zero chance that Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston or Lamar could survive in D1-A football

they will kill their programs if they even try

they do not come close to having the budgets, fan, financial or alumni support nor do they come close to having the facilities

I would see it as highly possible the Texas legislature steps in to stop it if they try as well

The Texas schools all have much greater athletic budgets and enrollment than Louisiana-Monroe by at least $3 mill. Going FBS is only 44 more expensive if one goes the cheap route like ULM. The programs will not be gold plated like other Texas teams.

If the Texas legislature does something, more money can be saved by going after high school districts, which gold plate their stadiums and programs.

only because they subsidize $7+ million more per year Vs ULM

and the high school sports are a local tax funded issue not a state funded issue or a student funded issue with little or no student input for a large part of it

Texas limits student athletics fees to a max of $20 per credit hour, but universities simply fund more from general tuition anyway and if more of these schools with enrollments that are not close to being able to sustain a D1-A program try and move up Texas will step in and set a hard limit of $20 per credit hour and zero other dollars from any other source other than donations

and just because ULM does something that does not make it a good idea and in Louisiana it is possible to use state funds for athletics as well and to get state funds for facilities so that is something the State of Louisiana has made a decision on

Texas does not allow that and if more of these schools try and move to D1-A Texas will step in and make sure that $20 per credit hour student approved athletics fee is a hard cap with no ability to just spend more tuition dollars without student input

Anyone know current enrollment of A&M-San Antonio? Wiki shows 5,500 but not sure how recent that is. They are wanting to get to 25,000 by 2025. I expect they'll get division 1 athletics around then as well.

Tarleton seems like a good fit for the Southland, they'd be a nice a FCS school. Sam Houston St has enrollment of about 20,000, that should be good to be a low end FBS team. SFA and Lamar are a bit behind in enrollment, I'm not sure if they're ready for FBS. I'm sure they'd all like to move up together and get back with Texas State, I'm just not sure how feasible it is right now.

(10-10-2017 02:36 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 12:41 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  there is zero chance that Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston or Lamar could survive in D1-A football

they will kill their programs if they even try

they do not come close to having the budgets, fan, financial or alumni support nor do they come close to having the facilities

I would see it as highly possible the Texas legislature steps in to stop it if they try as well

The Texas schools all have much greater athletic budgets and enrollment than Louisiana-Monroe by at least $3 mill. Going FBS is only 44 more expensive if one goes the cheap route like ULM. The programs will not be gold plated like other Texas teams.

If the Texas legislature does something, more money can be saved by going after high school districts, which gold plate their stadiums and programs.

Trying to be just better than the worst funded FBS school should not be the measuring stick. If you are going the cheap route, why go at all?

If you can't get your budget up to at least $25 million, you don't belong in FBS.

Only 4 FBS programs fell below that:
LTU - 23 Million
Bowling Green 23 Million
Idaho - 22 Million
UL-Monroe - Under 15 Million

(10-10-2017 11:25 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Anyone know current enrollment of A&M-San Antonio? Wiki shows 5,500 but not sure how recent that is. They are wanting to get to 25,000 by 2025. I expect they'll get division 1 athletics around then as well.

Tarleton seems like a good fit for the Southland, they'd be a nice a FCS school. Sam Houston St has enrollment of about 20,000, that should be good to be a low end FBS team. SFA and Lamar are a bit behind in enrollment, I'm not sure if they're ready for FBS. I'm sure they'd all like to move up together and get back with Texas State, I'm just not sure how feasible it is right now.

TAMU-SA is Jr. Sr. only so that makes them a poor candidate for any athletics

and The State of Texas has an enrollment forecast of 6,500 for 2030 so 25,000 is most likely a LONG way off

and SHSU has a lot of students off campus at places like The Woodlands (over 2,000 students) and Lone Star College campuses (probably another 2,000) so they do not have close to 20,000 on campus not to mention a lot of their students head home for the weekend

(10-10-2017 11:45 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:25 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Anyone know current enrollment of A&M-San Antonio? Wiki shows 5,500 but not sure how recent that is. They are wanting to get to 25,000 by 2025. I expect they'll get division 1 athletics around then as well.

Tarleton seems like a good fit for the Southland, they'd be a nice a FCS school. Sam Houston St has enrollment of about 20,000, that should be good to be a low end FBS team. SFA and Lamar are a bit behind in enrollment, I'm not sure if they're ready for FBS. I'm sure they'd all like to move up together and get back with Texas State, I'm just not sure how feasible it is right now.

TAMU-SA is Jr. Sr. only so that makes them a poor candidate for any athletics

and The State of Texas has an enrollment forecast of 6,500 for 2030 so 25,000 is most likely a LONG way off

and SHSU has a lot of students off campus at places like The Woodlands (over 2,000 students) and Lone Star College campuses (probably another 2,000) so they do not have close to 20,000 on campus not to mention a lot of their students head home for the weekend

They're supposed to have started their first freshman class this fall. From what I can see it looks like only 600 students initially (http://www.tamusa.edu/news/2017/08/welco...ester.html)

Although this article makes it look like freshman were there last year, and expects enrollment at 8,000 within 4 years - http://www.expressnews.com/news/educatio...995042.php

The wiki page for the school also shows freshman and sophomores last year, but it looks like the 25,000 in 2025 goal was set back in 2007. Difficult to make sense of how soon that school will grow.

(10-10-2017 12:34 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:45 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:25 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  Anyone know current enrollment of A&M-San Antonio? Wiki shows 5,500 but not sure how recent that is. They are wanting to get to 25,000 by 2025. I expect they'll get division 1 athletics around then as well.

Tarleton seems like a good fit for the Southland, they'd be a nice a FCS school. Sam Houston St has enrollment of about 20,000, that should be good to be a low end FBS team. SFA and Lamar are a bit behind in enrollment, I'm not sure if they're ready for FBS. I'm sure they'd all like to move up together and get back with Texas State, I'm just not sure how feasible it is right now.

TAMU-SA is Jr. Sr. only so that makes them a poor candidate for any athletics

and The State of Texas has an enrollment forecast of 6,500 for 2030 so 25,000 is most likely a LONG way off

and SHSU has a lot of students off campus at places like The Woodlands (over 2,000 students) and Lone Star College campuses (probably another 2,000) so they do not have close to 20,000 on campus not to mention a lot of their students head home for the weekend

They're supposed to have started their first freshman class this fall. From what I can see it looks like only 600 students initially (http://www.tamusa.edu/news/2017/08/welco...ester.html)

Although this article makes it look like freshman were there last year, and expects enrollment at 8,000 within 4 years - http://www.expressnews.com/news/educatio...995042.php

The wiki page for the school also shows freshman and sophomores last year, but it looks like the 25,000 in 2025 goal was set back in 2007. Difficult to make sense of how soon that school will grow.

the A&M System is far and away the least supportive university system to non-flagship system schools in Texas

there is little chance that major athletics programs are anything more that "planning" window dressing along with big enrollment goals being just big words