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Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
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otown Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 05:41 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 04:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If USF and UCF continue to sustain success does it make them any more attractive for P5 membership? If the Big 12 somehow continues beyond the expiration of their GOR do they get in as a pair? They bring a pair of nice Florida markets and rich recruiting and could either be put with the 4 Texas schools for a division, creating the opportunity for a a Texas-Oklahoma rematch for a title. Or they could be matched with WVU and the 3 prairie schools.

UCF made it to a BCS bowl. Then promptly went winless.

So, no.

More of a case of a coach not wanting to be there and retiring mentally while still on the job, all while losing the confidence of your players. See Bobby Bowden. See Mack Brown. Scott Frost took the same players and turned it into a bowl team. If Scott Frost hangs around, expect consistent success. Same goes for the basketball side with Dawkins. UCF would be the full package, available for the taking. Give them an invite, and Frost ain't going anywhere for the time being.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 06:25 PM by otown.)
10-08-2017 06:24 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Does that mean they are doomed to stay forever in a G5 conference? Then the answer to that is also no. For all the reasons JRSec articulated. None of those other schools are blessed with the strategic advantages two schools in large cities in a football hotbed. I expect that eventually they will wind up in either the ACC or SEC, because no other conference makes real sense. The question is: how long will that take?
10-08-2017 06:43 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Thats just it..... UCF bottomed out, but had a quick turnaround. In fact, they have been very successful over a long period of time with multiple conference championships, multiple 10 plus win seasons, and a BCS win over the Big 12 champ. Very inaccurate to label them as having "short term success.".............. but yes, poor wording of the question indeed, and I get your point on a technicality.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2017 06:49 PM by otown.)
10-08-2017 06:48 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
In short, yes - but there is still plenty of time during the season for things to change. Both teams are winning on the field, but there isn't enough data to see a trend for each program's respective attendance. USF has only had two FBS home games (Illinois/Temple), with Illinois getting over 35k and Temple just getting 24k. UCF, on the other hand, has only had Memphis (34k) and FIU (38k). With those two figures alone, the only program that they would outdraw in the Big 12 would be Kansas. If UCF can start selling out their stadium consistently, that would go a long way towards legitimizing their candidacy for a P5. USF is definitely more challenging because they play at Raymond James. Other than Miami and Florida State, I don't think they have gotten any home game over 45k in recent years there.

I just don't see how politics would allow either program into the ACC or SEC unless there were mass defections.
10-08-2017 06:56 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:48 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Thats just it..... UCF bottomed out, but had a quick turnaround. In fact, they have been very successful over a long period of time with multiple conference championships, multiple 10 plus win seasons, and a BCS win over the Big 12 champ. Very inaccurate to label them as having "short term success.".............. but yes, poor wording of the question indeed, and I get your point on a technicality.

But it's not a technicality. If it were, Boise State would have been invited somewhere before this. The point is it isn't about wins, whether that's over a few years or "multiple" years. The equation is a lot more complex than that.
10-08-2017 06:58 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
The question for both schools and many G5 schools. Can you move from stepping stone status. In UCF case, Frost will probably be a hot name in P5 jobs. Dawkins will probably get a call as soon as an ACC jobs open up.
10-08-2017 06:59 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:56 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  In short, yes - but there is still plenty of time during the season for things to change. Both teams are winning on the field, but there isn't enough data to see a trend for each program's respective attendance. USF has only had two FBS home games (Illinois/Temple), with Illinois getting over 35k and Temple just getting 24k. UCF, on the other hand, has only had Memphis (34k) and FIU (38k). With those two figures alone, the only program that they would outdraw in the Big 12 would be Kansas. If UCF can start selling out their stadium consistently, that would go a long way towards legitimizing their candidacy for a P5. USF is definitely more challenging because they play at Raymond James. Other than Miami and Florida State, I don't think they have gotten any home game over 45k in recent years there.

I just don't see how politics would allow either program into the ACC or SEC unless there were mass defections.

So they draw 38k for a pitiful FIU, and draw 34k for a memphis rescheduled game with rain in the forecast......... are you really gonna tell me with a strait face that you would have concerns about their attendance with a P5 conference schedule?
10-08-2017 07:03 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:58 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:48 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 06:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  The question was "does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive?". The answer to that question has to be no. Not any more than Western Michigan, Northern Illinois, Marshall and any number of other schools who found short term success. Jumping on the latest big thing isn't a recipe for long term success.

Thats just it..... UCF bottomed out, but had a quick turnaround. In fact, they have been very successful over a long period of time with multiple conference championships, multiple 10 plus win seasons, and a BCS win over the Big 12 champ. Very inaccurate to label them as having "short term success.".............. but yes, poor wording of the question indeed, and I get your point on a technicality.

But it's not a technicality. If it were, Boise State would have been invited somewhere before this. The point is it isn't about wins, whether that's over a few years or "multiple" years. The equation is a lot more complex than that.

No, its a lot more than just winning. Boise's academics are rivaled by community colleges. They are also in the middle of nowhere. However, you changed your whole argument, because I was only pointing out that the whole crux of your original post was flawed about UCF.
10-08-2017 07:06 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
(10-08-2017 06:59 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  The question for both schools and many G5 schools. Can you move from stepping stone status. In UCF case, Frost will probably be a hot name in P5 jobs. Dawkins will probably get a call as soon as an ACC jobs open up.

Well, if you put it that way, no G5 will ever get an invite.....ever.
10-08-2017 07:10 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Does this season's success make UCF/USF more attractive to the P5?
I don’t think so.
10-08-2017 07:19 PM
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