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Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 06:06 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  As someone who is a senior now, I have noticed no difference in the amount of interest people have in sports across all of the classes that I have shared time with (2015-2021). To be honest, many students like sports coming in, but then get jaded as time goes on.

Based off of what some said last basketball season, the student crowds were as good as they’d been since the SWC.

Students just need something to root for. I’m about as big of a Rice fan as they come, but I skipped the Rice-West Point game (where I have family ties on both sides of the ball) to go to a Texas A&M-Alabama tailgate for a cousin’s ring dunk (even though I hate A&M with a passion as my dad went to UT).

I’ll probably be at LA Tech and USM games, but will definitely miss the game against UNT. Not worth coming back to school a day early (even to say my goodbyes to Bailiff).

We tailgate every game and almost no one will go in until Bailiff is fired. We're probably the biggest Houston supporters of Rice athletics in the '14-'08 classes. The only reason I went into the Army game is because my parents flew in from out of town to attend. I left disgusted in the 2Q and they left at half.

Basketball crowds weren't bad last year. If we are decent this year and good next year I could imagine a full student section each game. That's step 2 for athletics in my opinion (step 1 is firing Bailiff).
10-10-2017 06:50 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
Watchable football would lead to greater student interest, which would lead to a change in campus culture over time. Unwatchable football erodes the fan base and renders football a less-central part of the on-campus experience. (I believe that Rice football isn't just bad but is uninteresting - there's no hope of an upset any more, for instance).

Bear in mind that interest in college football has been on a gradual but long-term decline across the country, and it's affecting student attendance everywhere. The least interesting programs will of course be the canaries in the coal-mine.
10-10-2017 07:05 PM
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franklyconfused Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 02:23 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 09:05 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  I can't imagine a situation where Rice decides to finally pony up more money than required and fires DB mid-season.

Why would it require more money to pay him not to coach the rest of the season than to coach the rest of the season?

My admittedly second-hand understanding of HC contracts is that the buyout for firing the coach (or hiring him away) drops in a stepwise function on dates shortly after the regular season is scheduled to end. Even if that's completely wrong (and it may be; I'm not in athletics administration or familiar with DB's contract), I can't imagine that we would get a replacement for free, even internally. At a minimum, we would be paying Bailiff the same and we would be paying a premium to someone else to be interim HC.
10-10-2017 07:52 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
He's not going to fired during the season.

One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?

I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?
10-10-2017 07:58 PM
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ruowls Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He's not going to fired during the season.

One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?

I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?

First answer:
This is rhetorical, right?

Second answer:
Because the on-field performance is dreadful.
10-10-2017 08:14 PM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He's not going to fired during the season.

One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?

I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?

Conference departures in 2013 and 2014 are having an impact, too. Maybe not major, but there is the quality of competition part that goes with recruiting.
10-10-2017 08:48 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He's not going to fired during the season.

One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?

I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?

Despite my best efforts to avoid this dumpster fire.. someone alerted me to 1. A thread asking where I went 2. This discussion

Point is..regression towards the mean. Imagine you lift someone like Miss State or NC state and drop them into CUSA. Initially they will beat up on people by better talent. Then people realize that CUSA sucks monkey nuts and your recruiting slides. Then you move from being average in a better conference to good in a poor conference to average in a poor conference to, if you're coached by a no talent space occupier, to terrible in that poor conference.

This of course assumes you are a Miss State or NC state. Rice was more like a Cincinnati or UVa. Drop either of those in the Sunbelt and watch a few years of "unprecedented success" and other frou frou bull**** terms get thrown around. Then watch them fade into the same level of crap that they currently are, albeit relatively worse.

Point is, Bailiff has been happily cashing his checks and beating up against bottom 20 competition for 2012 and 2013 all while CUSA dropped from being a top 2 G5 to basically the sun belt.

Many of us saw this coming. But the BOT and his supporters shouted us down. Leebron, our BOT's Kerry Jones and your Ilk congrats- you've successfully passed the point of no return. Youve basically played with someone else's money - wasted it towards this clown we have in charge- and paid no consequences for your stupidity, short sightedness and fiscal malpractice.

The war is over. We lost.
10-10-2017 08:55 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
Also the EZF was a wonderfully constructed distraction ploy. I was in London a little while ago and toured Stamford Bridge. Tour the sparse locker room with its bare wooden shelving, simple floor and basic lighting youd think you were at UAB's legion field.

Except they won the premier league last year. In an old stadium. With lousy locker rooms. With nothing else. Because they were coached by Conte, and not the soccer/football equivalent of Bailiff.

Simply put - facilities help they don't solve the underlying issue. And that was obvious a decade ago.
10-10-2017 09:06 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 08:48 PM)gsloth Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He's not going to fired during the season.
One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?
I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?
Conference departures in 2013 and 2014 are having an impact, too. Maybe not major, but there is the quality of competition part that goes with recruiting.

But when the quality of competition goes down, the talent level required to beat them should go down too. That's what's remarkable here. We've gotten worse faster than the competition has gotten worse.
10-10-2017 09:06 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
USA might need a new soccer coach shortly after its stunning turn of events tonight. Maybe Bailiff can master a different type of football coaching skill-set.
10-10-2017 09:17 PM
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Buho00 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 08:48 PM)gsloth Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He's not going to fired during the season.
One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?
I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?
Conference departures in 2013 and 2014 are having an impact, too. Maybe not major, but there is the quality of competition part that goes with recruiting.

But when the quality of competition goes down, the talent level required to beat them should go down too. That's what's remarkable here. We've gotten worse faster than the competition has gotten worse.

When Bailiff has good QB's, he gets to bowl games. When QB play is not good, Rice has consistently been a bottom 10 school under him. What we've seen from 2014-2017 is similar to 2009-2011. Before and in between he's had decent seasons with some notable accomplishments, because he recruited decent talent, but QB play has been the most significant factor and his most obvious fault at times (see 2009 QB situation, see handling of Miko Smalls this past wknd). Even in his best years he can't compete with P5 schools, but at least did well in conference and that's kept him around. We have some NFL prospects on this roster, but DB has not proven to be a coach who can overcome a weak offense with other phases of the game, certainly not with any consistency. This year was his last chance.
10-10-2017 09:48 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 09:17 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  USA might need a new soccer coach shortly after its stunning turn of events tonight. Maybe Bailiff can master a different type of football coaching skill-set.

OMG, that was a dreadful performance. Particularly with so much on the line.
10-10-2017 09:56 PM
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OldOwl Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
Don’t worry. We be lucky to win 3 games.

The AD/Bailiff will also try and spin 5-7 as improvement and "wait until next year."

The problem is Bailiff needs a new contract, so any extension and we're stuck with him another 3-5 years no matter what (if JK is still the AD).
[/quote]
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2017 12:07 AM by OldOwl.)
10-11-2017 12:06 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 09:56 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:17 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  USA might need a new soccer coach shortly after its stunning turn of events tonight. Maybe Bailiff can master a different type of football coaching skill-set.
OMG, that was a dreadful performance. Particularly with so much on the line.

I woke up to a shock this morning... at least I got to see my son scored a two point conversion (middle-school kick) yesterday... otherwise, it's been one train wreck after another among almost all of the teams I follow.
10-11-2017 07:32 AM
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Steven Herce Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 09:06 PM)Antarius Wrote:  Also the EZF was a wonderfully constructed distraction ploy. I was in London a little while ago and toured Stamford Bridge. Tour the sparse locker room with its bare wooden shelving, simple floor and basic lighting youd think you were at UAB's legion field.

Except they won the premier league last year. In an old stadium. With lousy locker rooms. With nothing else. Because they were coached by Conte, and not the soccer/football equivalent of Bailiff.

Simply put - facilities help they don't solve the underlying issue. And that was obvious a decade ago.

I haven't posted in quite a while and this is tough for me to write because I don't want to offend anyone that has given so generously to our athletics programs (the Reckling family, Brian Patterson, all of those that are always there to fund smaller projects like the coaches's offices or training rooms or what have you). I also don't want anyone to latch onto any specific example I give and miss my broader point.

Antarius really hit the nail on the head here. Except it isn't just end zone facilities and locker rooms. It is also uniforms and gear and team meals and overnights in the hotel before the game and staying over one more night instead of taking the red eye back and so much more. I can only speak to baseball and my experiences but...

It is getting one blue T-shirt and one grey T-Shirt and the uniform pants from several years ago to last the entire fall and spring for practices. It is not getting your one blue hat until January so you don't wear it out before the season. It is having a jacket that has someone else's name written in it and they haven't played in 7-8 years and under that name is another name and then another name. It is not having batting practice tops but just wearing your blue T-shirt that has salt stains and is fading. It is finally getting batting practice tops only to have the heat from the dryer peel all the numbers off the back and seeing #14 as #4. It is getting to Omaha in desperate need of new cleats and just buying your own. It is getting back to the hotel after a game and having just an hour or so until curfew and having to eat at the Denny's in the hotel parking lot for the third night in a row.

It is also filling and carrying buckets of sand from a pile by the batting cages to the newly sodded infield to fill the cracks and help the turf come together before opening day. It is unloading the metal outfield fence pieces from a box truck parked on the hill behind left field and actually building the outfield fence. It is unrolling the old field tarp to cut tarps for the bullpen mounds and plates and then rolling it back up.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that those that came before me had it tougher and I don't mean to whine. I wouldn't trade any of it for anything. And, yes, I get that times change and that Rice has to keep up with those changes. I don't mean to suggest that the baseball team should padlock Reckling and go back to playing in the field next to the old Wiess or that they should surrender their Under Armour shirts and go back to cotton. And, I don't think the football team should go back to leather helmets or should take a train to away games.

I think there are enough athletes with whom "here's your two T-shirts now let's kick some ass" still resonates (or something to that effect).
10-11-2017 08:25 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 09:06 PM)Antarius Wrote:  Also the EZF was a wonderfully constructed distraction ploy. I was in London a little while ago and toured Stamford Bridge. Tour the sparse locker room with its bare wooden shelving, simple floor and basic lighting youd think you were at UAB's legion field.

Except they won the premier league last year. In an old stadium. With lousy locker rooms. With nothing else. Because they were coached by Conte, and not the soccer/football equivalent of Bailiff.

Simply put - facilities help they don't solve the underlying issue. And that was obvious a decade ago.

I don't think it was a ploy - it was a real need that needed to be addressed. But it has proven to NOW be a panacea to the program's wohs.

In the comparison to Stamford Bridge, Chelsea's home, you leave out two crucial things that draw players to that location, despite the old school facilities. The MASSIVE amount of money that the players are paid and the weight that Chelsea's name carries.

Since the NCAA can't pay players, schools have found that they can compensate them by providing them an education and world class facilities, support and treatment, food, entertainment, etc. So unless a student really values education, Rice was very much at a disadvantage in terms of the compensation we could offer prospective athletes prior to the EZF. And just like in the real world, people want to be compensated appropriately (now this doesn't touch on the fact that we could potentially be doing a better job identifying non-Texan athletes that value a good education). Rice can finally offer market-average compensation.

Rice still does not have any value associated with our name, so we need to try and find some way to compensate for that, and I think the EZF helps, if anything, because no one can basically point and laugh at our horrid conditions.

I think the EZF was a definite must, just as bringing in a coach is a definite must. Both of these things should have happened, but unfortunately we're still waiting on one. My hope now is the EZF can help open up our pool of applicants for a new coach. My thinking being that up-to-date facilities reduces, significantly, one issue a coach had to worry about when recruiting. I mean, we no longer have to worry about star recruits showing up unannounced and seeing our locker room ceiling tiles fall in, a la Luck. So with one less con hanging around their neck, perhaps more coaches would be willing to take a chance at Rice because they don't think it's a deadend job (my new worry though, is that the DB situation has helped reinforced the deadend job idea, though).
10-11-2017 12:38 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-10-2017 08:55 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:58 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  He's not going to fired during the season.

One question. Things have really gone downhill since 2013--almost straight down. What has caused that?

I mean, after 2013 we were coming off a conference championship, and after 2014 we were coming off 3 bowls in a row, plus we had the EZF coming. You would have thought that was, at least relatively, the catbird's seat, and that things should immediately get better. They didn't, so why?

Despite my best efforts to avoid this dumpster fire.. someone alerted me to 1. A thread asking where I went 2. This discussion

Point is..regression towards the mean. Imagine you lift someone like Miss State or NC state and drop them into CUSA. Initially they will beat up on people by better talent. Then people realize that CUSA sucks monkey nuts and your recruiting slides. Then you move from being average in a better conference to good in a poor conference to average in a poor conference to, if you're coached by a no talent space occupier, to terrible in that poor conference.

This of course assumes you are a Miss State or NC state. Rice was more like a Cincinnati or UVa. Drop either of those in the Sunbelt and watch a few years of "unprecedented success" and other frou frou bull**** terms get thrown around. Then watch them fade into the same level of crap that they currently are, albeit relatively worse.

Point is, Bailiff has been happily cashing his checks and beating up against bottom 20 competition for 2012 and 2013 all while CUSA dropped from being a top 2 G5 to basically the sun belt.

Many of us saw this coming. But the BOT and his supporters shouted us down. Leebron, our BOT's Kerry Jones and your Ilk congrats- you've successfully passed the point of no return. Youve basically played with someone else's money - wasted it towards this clown we have in charge- and paid no consequences for your stupidity, short sightedness and fiscal malpractice.

The war is over. We lost.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. With apologies to Bill Clinton, "It's the economy conference, stupid." We and CUSA 3.0 are particularly ill-suited for each other and this result -- where we have sunk to a bottom 10 program -- was, really, inevitable, despite our initial success.

You see, it is not just that recruiting, i.e., the physical talent on the roster, degrades due to being in this conference. It is that psychologically we -- fans, alums, players, everyone associated with Rice -- simply cannot make ourselves care about competing in this conference, composed of schools we have absolutely nothing in common with. Why would a Rice person walk across the street to see any of these schools play? Much less drive across town, much less drive or fly in from out of town? And don't argue that they should just because Rice is involved. These are basically meaningless exhibition games. We have literally been shunted off into a ghettoized subdivision of Division I that cannot, repeat cannot, compete for the Division I championship.

So who cares? And so apathy/disgust lead to sparse crowds at HRS, no buzz or excitement on campus during the week (except the rare occasion when we get a recognizable opponent at home, like Baylor last year). Well, football is an emotional game. Players feed off of home energy. When that energy is not there, they underperform. And our players are Rice students also, of course. They know, deep down, just as their classmates do, that there is something deeply incongruous about striving for excellence at an elite institution Monday through Friday, and then competing against decidedly non-elite institutions/programs on Saturday. Quite simply, their hearts and minds - along with the hearts and minds of everybody on this campus - are not invested in this project, and never will be. (Maybe we could develop some massive augmented reality app that makes all of us see full crowds and all of our opponents as Longhorns, Aggies, etc.)

Frankly, our conference mates do not have this problem. For every single other school in this conference, with the possible exception of UTEP, CUSA is either a step up from where they used to be or no worse than where they've always been. For us, it is a massive step down and over the last 20+ years our administration has either been too shortsighted to realize this could never work here, or too accepting of mediocrity/dismissive of athletics to care, or too cheap/not ambitious enough/not creative enough to do what would have been necessary to achieve a different outcome. Or all of the above.

I do not say what I am about to say next to absolve Bailiff or say that facilities/amenities don't matter. Bailiff is a failure and yeah we could always do better in the facilities/amenities department (although I think we're definitely not shabby). But no coach or building or greater amenity for our athletes could ever fix this. Because regardless of those things, as long as we are in this conference and really in G5 football overall, the fundamental problem of not being psychologically invested in this competition will remain.

Some people think we can hire a new coach, have him start winning, then when he gets hired away (which he will), we find a replacement for him to keep it going and take us up a level (including better facilities/amenities), and then the same thing when he gets hired away, and we become a CUSA/G5 dynasty, and then I guess someday we get a call from Mike Slive inviting us to the SEC. And if that process breaks down along the way, we don't wait so freaking long to fire the guy who failed to get the next stage of the rocket to fire, and we try again.

That's all well and good, and it almost worked for Boise (might have worked if they were not a former junior college located in Boise) and it might just work for Florida Atlantic, but it won't work here. We will never bootstrap our way out of this mess. The plan requires season after season of 9 wins, 10 wins, 12 wins -- except, again, who is going to switch bodies with us and provide the consistent effort (players) and support (fans) against the Middle Tennessee States and the Louisiana Techs and the UABs and the other dreadful conference games that are the clear bulk of the schedule?

And so, always lacking any sort of real will to compete and excel at this level, with no compelling objective to strive for, I believe you will always see our program oscillate around .500, no matter who the coach is. A phugoid oscillation, if you will. We can always win some games in spite of our lack of caring, and we should be able to occasionally punch above our weight against opponents that we do care about.* Conversely, we will always be prone to laying eggs against teams with equal/lesser talent.

Absent a real and massive shift by the administration in how it conceives of and supports football on this campus, with a set objective of returning to the P5 level -- and doing this NOW, without waiting for football to provide the wins BEFORE providing the support -- nothing will change. The phugoid sequence will continue, because our admin looks to be committed to providing at least minimally adequate thrust in the form of subsidizing athletics just enough to keep the lights on. And since they will probably do so in perpetuity, at least those who fear the loss of football here will not have to worry about our phugoid sequence ending like this one. Of course, some would say it already has.

*In this regard, Bailiff has been an especially poor fit for us because he is a typical, unimaginative football traditionalist who believes conference games are paramount and nonconference games are "preseason" nuisances, and this has showed in our abysmal results against any team your neighbor has actually heard of. Please at least let the next coach bring that "anyone, anywhere, anytime" mindset and rallying cry that Fresno State and Southern Miss and others have used to good effect!
10-11-2017 02:05 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
I wouldn't confine Bailiff's abysmal results to nonconference games.
10-11-2017 02:24 PM
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Wiessman Away
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Post: #79
RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-11-2017 02:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  A phugoid oscillation, if you will.

When I read that, I immediately thought of JAL 123, which you linked to later in your post.

We know how that turned out. And even though the pilots were able to keep that plane up longer than anyone believed possible, it still ended the way it did. Superb metaphor.

I don't want to diminish the tragedy of JAL 123 by comparing it to the decline of a silly little football program. But illiniowl made an inspired reference.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2017 02:52 PM by Wiessman.)
10-11-2017 02:48 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Is Bailiff fired during the off week?
(10-11-2017 02:05 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  And so, always lacking any sort of real will to compete and excel at this level, with no compelling objective to strive for, I believe you will always see our program oscillate around .500, no matter who the coach is. A phugoid oscillation, if you will.
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Absent a real and massive shift by the administration in how it conceives of and supports football on this campus, with a set objective of returning to the P5 level -- and doing this NOW, without waiting for football to provide the wins BEFORE providing the support -- nothing will change. The phugoid sequence will continue, because our admin looks to be committed to providing at least minimally adequate thrust in the form of subsidizing athletics just enough to keep the lights on. And since they will probably do so in perpetuity, at least those who fear the loss of football here will not have to worry about our phugoid sequence ending like this one. Of course, some would say it already has.

Among those who died in the crash of Japan Air Lines Flight 123 was pop singer Kyu Sakamoto, who had a number 1 hit in 1963 in the United States with the song "Sukiyaki." I believe that it is the only tune sung in all Japanese that ever reached the top of the charts in America.
10-11-2017 03:21 PM
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