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G5 Conference Rankings?
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otown Offline
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Post: #91
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 07:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.

For 2017, the entire Big 12 conference only had 9 Florida recruits. One of the big complaints in the WVU circles was the drop off with Florida recruiting after the move to Big 12.

For comparison sake for 2017:
Big 12 - 9
Big 10- 39
SEC- 30+
ACC 30+
PAC- 18
Needless to say, I certainly think they can use any extra recruiting sway in the Florida area that they can get. They may currently heavily recruit Florida, but their results are very underwhelming.

Big 10 breaks the trend because of unique situations I can only guess...... they were doing camps in Florida, their schools overall are much more high profile than anything else the Big 12 can offer, and like it or not........ the kids identify more with those big Northern universities, either due to family ties to the region, or simply living in Iowa isn't as enticing than living in Michigan, PA, NJ etc. Of course that is only looking into why the Big 10 broke the trend with no footprint in Florida..... but that is all hypothetical on my part.

Bottom line, the Big 12 recruits horrible in Florida compared to the other conferences. Hell, even the PAC pulled in double the recruits at double the distance. There is plenty more for the taking in Florida. Look at how well USF and UCF are doing, and that is only with G5 offerings. Scott Frost is on record loving the fact that he can drive and meet with quite a few recruits all in one day and be home for dinner, compared to the plane rides he would have to take in Oregon. So Florida has a lot more to offer.......
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2017 08:20 PM by otown.)
10-10-2017 08:15 PM
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UTEPDallas Online
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Post: #92
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 08:15 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.

For 2017, the entire Big 12 conference only had 9 Florida recruits. One of the big complaints in the WVU circles was the drop off with Florida recruiting after the move to Big 12.

For comparison sake for 2017:
Big 12 - 9
Big 10- 39
SEC- 30+
ACC 30+
PAC- 18
Needless to say, I certainly think they can use any extra recruiting sway in the Florida area that they can get. They may currently heavily recruit Florida, but their results are very underwhelming.

Big 10 breaks the trend because of unique situations I can only guess...... they were doing camps in Florida, their schools overall are much more high profile than anything else the Big 12 can offer, and like it or not........ the kids identify more with those big Northern universities, either due to family ties to the region, or simply living in Iowa isn't as enticing than living in Michigan, PA, NJ etc. Of course that is only looking into why the Big 10 broke the trend with no footprint in Florida..... but that is all hypothetical on my part.

Bottom line, the Big 12 recruits horrible in Florida compared to the other conferences. Hell, even the PAC pulled in double the recruits at double the distance. There is plenty more for the taking in Florida. Look at how well USF and UCF are doing, and that is only with G5 offerings. Scott Frost is on record loving the fact that he can drive and meet with quite a few recruits all in one day and be home for dinner, compared to the plane rides he would have to take in Oregon. So Florida has a lot more to offer.......

Why would a Big XII school especially one that is in Texas recruit in Florida when they have the Great State of Texas at their disposal? DFW and Houston are arguably the two most fertile recruiting areas in the most important football state in the nation. Yes, having an extra kid from Florida doesn't hurt just like getting a recruit or two from California help but it's not the end of all if you're Texas or Oklahoma. The only schools who would benefit from that would be West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas and K-State. That means more competition for recruits for the U_F and F_U twins.
10-10-2017 10:06 PM
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otown Offline
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Post: #93
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 10:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 08:15 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 07:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 03:59 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  ISU already has access to the Great State of Texas. Do you really want the likes of K-State and ISU have access to Florida recruits? I'm not sure that would be beneficial to the U_F twins.

The great state of Texas is completely covered by 5 local P5 schools. Add Oklahoma and OkState and its 7. Texas is great for recruiting, but its completely tapped out. Florida only has 3 P5 schools with an equal amount of recruits as Texas.
I highly doubt UCF and USF will have any problem competing with ISU (a historically abysmal football program) if they were both in the same conference. That's simply the local advantage. Going up against Texas and Oklahoma in the same conference....... I am sure they would have no problem accepting that threat just to be in a P5 conference.

Every school in the eastern half of the country recruits Florida heavily. Last year the ACC pulled the most recruits from Florida and the Big 10 was very close behind #2 SEC. The idea of expanding recruiting presence in Florida is very overrated.

For 2017, the entire Big 12 conference only had 9 Florida recruits. One of the big complaints in the WVU circles was the drop off with Florida recruiting after the move to Big 12.

For comparison sake for 2017:
Big 12 - 9
Big 10- 39
SEC- 30+
ACC 30+
PAC- 18
Needless to say, I certainly think they can use any extra recruiting sway in the Florida area that they can get. They may currently heavily recruit Florida, but their results are very underwhelming.

Big 10 breaks the trend because of unique situations I can only guess...... they were doing camps in Florida, their schools overall are much more high profile than anything else the Big 12 can offer, and like it or not........ the kids identify more with those big Northern universities, either due to family ties to the region, or simply living in Iowa isn't as enticing than living in Michigan, PA, NJ etc. Of course that is only looking into why the Big 10 broke the trend with no footprint in Florida..... but that is all hypothetical on my part.

Bottom line, the Big 12 recruits horrible in Florida compared to the other conferences. Hell, even the PAC pulled in double the recruits at double the distance. There is plenty more for the taking in Florida. Look at how well USF and UCF are doing, and that is only with G5 offerings. Scott Frost is on record loving the fact that he can drive and meet with quite a few recruits all in one day and be home for dinner, compared to the plane rides he would have to take in Oregon. So Florida has a lot more to offer.......

Why would a Big XII school especially one that is in Texas recruit in Florida when they have the Great State of Texas at their disposal? DFW and Houston are arguably the two most fertile recruiting areas in the most important football state in the nation. Yes, having an extra kid from Florida doesn't hurt just like getting a recruit or two from California help but it's not the end of all if you're Texas or Oklahoma. The only schools who would benefit from that would be West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas and K-State. That means more competition for recruits for the U_F and F_U twins.

Correct. However, I am sure the big ones wouldn't mind having that extra area of recruiting.......and I'm sure as hell the USF and UCF would not call about any Florida competition for recruits if it meant going into the big 12. In fact, the only real people who would be pissed would be FSU, Miami, and UF. More local competition for them, by USF and UCF, as well as dealing withother Big 12 schools lurking in their backyard.
10-11-2017 04:47 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #94
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

What you say is true. But wasn't it just as true a year ago when the Big 12 decided not to expand? So, what is the missing piece of the puzzle that led the Big 12 to their decision?
10-11-2017 07:56 AM
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otown Offline
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Post: #95
RE: G5 Conference Rankings?
(10-11-2017 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:17 PM)otown Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 09:33 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 01:40 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(10-10-2017 12:16 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with having depth in any G5 conference is that it actually HURTS you in the NY6 race. If I'm Aresco, do I really want 5-6 teams that can pull a nasty upset? Tulane and SMU improving to the point where they can scare a team is actually not good if you want to monopolize the NY6 bowl.

The key to getting into the NY6 bowl game is to be a very good team in a very bad division where nobody can touch you.

I think UCF actually has a real shot at a perfect record - and they have a profile that will be a little better than SDSU.

The system as-is does not reward conference strength at the G5 level.

The real goal behind P6 isn't P6. It's to build a tweener conference. It's going to take YEARS to achieve, but if you don't start now you're screwed.

The problem is twofold: The first one is that the AAC has the exact same problem that the Big east(Pre-Split) did: It was propped up by it's Basketball. Without that, you would be just another Conference.

The second one is Ego. There is no secret that 10 of the 12 (at the time) Schools reached out to the Big XII. If I am apart of the Brass at Tulsa, I do not trust the other Schools at all(I firmly believe that them and Navy were the only Two that did not even try. Navy would have go back to be Independent and Tulsa was just Screwed). Your Conference would have hung them out to dry like C-USA did to Southern Miss when everyone Bolted.

There was a reason that even the Basketball Conferences were laughing at you on this site last Bowl Season. I understand that you are trying to Market yourselves better. I get that, I really do. However the arrogance will haunt you in the end and all you will get is voicemails and no response.......

I don't see how that is a problem. Every program that has a slight chance of moving us is thinking of moving up. If not then people are not doing their job. But here is the big difference with what is happening with the AAC and what happened with the Big East, opportunity. The power conferences had both an incentive and a need to expand.

Now, the Big 12 is the only conference that is not full but it's problem is lack of viable candidates. There is no Louisville or Utah on the board anymore. And nothing is wrong with UCF or USF but what do they really do for programs like Iowa State or Texas Tech? No one in the AAC has anywhere to go.

Nothing is going to do anything for programs like Texas Tech and ISU. FSU(yes, the Noles) and UF(yes, the Gators) can all join the Big 12, and TTech and ISU's trajectory will not change. ISU, while averaging 2-4 wins/year today, will continue to average 2-4 wins tomorrow. What would change is the exposure the top half of the conference would get by being in Florida. I would anticipate a bump in Florida recruiting for the top half. So getting a decent program in USF and UCF would improve the brand. Getting an invite out would also jump start the programs to even recruit at a higher level than what they are currently recruiting at (which is pretty good). This would also give them more coach stability.

Can one imagine UCF's ceiling with the coaching staff in place and not ripe for the picking by a P5 school?

Just my opinion for what its worth.

What you say is true. But wasn't it just as true a year ago when the Big 12 decided not to expand? So, what is the missing piece of the puzzle that led the Big 12 to their decision?

Missing piece is the media partners. They were more content with status quo, at least for the time being. So much has changed in the past 6 years, and I expect equal amount of change in the next 6. If it made economic sense for their media partner to add the state of Florida "at that time" and they requested it, I don't think Texas or Oklahoma would have been able to stop it.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2017 08:21 AM by otown.)
10-11-2017 08:20 AM
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