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Garbage Religion
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #31
RE: Garbage Religion
(10-07-2017 02:34 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(10-06-2017 08:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-06-2017 07:32 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Because they do not have absolute guidelines to follow and are not accountable to a supreme being.


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Then why do some god-believers hold different moral values than other god-believers? And why can't atheists hold the same moral values as some god-believers? For that matter, how do you know which of the conflicting moral values god-believers, even adherents of the same religion, are the right ones?

All any of us can know are which moral values we believe in. And, of course, each of us believes our values are the "right" ones, or we wouldn't believe in them.

Because they are "buffet Christians". "I'll have a little of the forgiveness, a little of the Love Your God, but no thanks to the Love Thy Neighbor As Thy Self." If you come at the Bible from any denomination, you should come away with the same moral code as every other denomination, minus the mistakes OF the particular denominations.

For instance: Alcohol. I attend a Baptist church. I am a "Baptist" in membership, but not so much in philosophy. One of the tenants of The Southern Baptist Church is NO ALCOHOL WHAT SO EVER. But Jesus changed water into wine at the wedding. Now, I've sat in several services over my lifetime SMH over the pastor trying to explain to the congregation that "no, no, Jesus just turned that into grape juice." But the scripture says "Do not become drunk with wine, wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit..." It doesn't say Do not drink wine. It says do not become DRUNK with wine.

So I see the Southern Baptist Convention as wrong on this detail. Pretty much the only think I think they got wrong. They are trying to put their own moral code on the Bible. But if you JUST READ THE BIBLE, you and everybody else (who just reads the Bible - instead of relying on their pastor or priest to tell them what to think) will arrive at a lot closer agreement to each other on a common moral code.

Is there something specific you can name that people of different outlooks (faith vs. atheism vs. agnostic) do not agree on?

I can think of one. Abortion. People who do not believe in God would have no reason to think of morality with regard to killing a baby before it has been born.

Damn... it's late. I'm rambling. We beat the CHIT Out of UConn tonight... Signing off.

I like honest posts....

I live in the bible belt (was raised catholic)....

as an atheist that raised a daughter in the methodist church??? IMO, what too many lose sight of is religion is simply a baseline for aiding with the development of structure and moral guidance as our youth become adults.....as one ages, the mind becomes theirs to make choices.....

religion has value in rearing....however, when religion is used as a tool to brand others as 'inferior' is where it always falls on it's face.....

we're only human....most cannot handle the ability to understand w/o an 'entity' to hold their hand along the way.....

that will change one day....unfortunately, that day is a longgggggggggggg way away....
10-07-2017 03:04 AM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Garbage Religion
You didn't jump to far as far as ideology Stink. The Methodist isn't very much different than the Catholic church other than the Methodists don't follow the Pope.

Christians (well most anyway) don't think of non-believers as inferior. I don't. I think of them as losing out on salvation which comes through Christ's dying on the cross for ALL OF US. It's a concept that non-believers can't grasp. They can't understand how a man-God could save everyone by going to his death as the lamb goes to his without a fight. It was written centuries before in Isaiah 53 (Torah) that he would die for us. It's incredible that even though it was written in the Jewish scriptures and is very obvious who that verse was referring to that even some (most) Jews don't want to accept it. There's many other verses in the Torah that point to Jesus as the Savior but again they skip its message.

The Bible is unchanging and after more than 2000 years there have been people who wanted to destroy its message have not been able to and will not be able to. So your thinking that it will change one day is questionable if not ludicrous.

There's a joke where someone wrote on a bathroom stall, "God is dead, signed Nietzsche". Underneath someone wrote "Nietzsche is dead, signed God". That pretty much sums it up.
10-07-2017 12:07 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Garbage Religion
(10-07-2017 12:07 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You didn't jump to far as far as ideology Stink. The Methodist isn't very much different than the Catholic church other than the Methodists don't follow the Pope.

Christians (well most anyway) don't think of non-believers as inferior. I don't. I think of them as losing out on salvation which comes through Christ's dying on the cross for ALL OF US. It's a concept that non-believers can't grasp. They can't understand how a man-God could save everyone by going to his death as the lamb goes to his without a fight. It was written centuries before in Isaiah 53 (Torah) that he would die for us. It's incredible that even though it was written in the Jewish scriptures and is very obvious who that verse was referring to that even some (most) Jews don't want to accept it. There's many other verses in the Torah that point to Jesus as the Savior but again they skip its message.

The Bible is unchanging and after more than 2000 years there have been people who wanted to destroy its message have not been able to and will not be able to. So your thinking that it will change one day is questionable if not ludicrous.

There's a joke where someone wrote on a bathroom stall, "God is dead, signed Nietzsche". Underneath someone wrote "Nietzsche is dead, signed God". That pretty much sums it up.

It's not that non-believers can't grasp that concept. It's merely that they (and billions of other people) don't believe it to be true. More to the point, it has nothing to do with the question of morality. That is a religious concept, not a moral one.

The Bible may be unchanging (if you don't count the numerous different translations as "changing"). And, if you don't count the ways in which the New Testament is believed by Christians to supercede the Old Testament. But concepts of morality are constantly changing. All morality is a function of time and location. What is moral to a person in Afghanistan may not be moral to one in Alabama, and vice versa. What was viewed as moral in the American south for hundreds of years is no longer viewed that way.
10-07-2017 12:41 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #34
RE: Garbage Religion
(10-07-2017 12:41 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(10-07-2017 12:07 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  You didn't jump to far as far as ideology Stink. The Methodist isn't very much different than the Catholic church other than the Methodists don't follow the Pope.

Christians (well most anyway) don't think of non-believers as inferior. I don't. I think of them as losing out on salvation which comes through Christ's dying on the cross for ALL OF US. It's a concept that non-believers can't grasp. They can't understand how a man-God could save everyone by going to his death as the lamb goes to his without a fight. It was written centuries before in Isaiah 53 (Torah) that he would die for us. It's incredible that even though it was written in the Jewish scriptures and is very obvious who that verse was referring to that even some (most) Jews don't want to accept it. There's many other verses in the Torah that point to Jesus as the Savior but again they skip its message.

The Bible is unchanging and after more than 2000 years there have been people who wanted to destroy its message have not been able to and will not be able to. So your thinking that it will change one day is questionable if not ludicrous.

There's a joke where someone wrote on a bathroom stall, "God is dead, signed Nietzsche". Underneath someone wrote "Nietzsche is dead, signed God". That pretty much sums it up.

It's not that non-believers can't grasp that concept. It's merely that they (and billions of other people) don't believe it to be true. More to the point, it has nothing to do with the question of morality. That is a religious concept, not a moral one.

The Bible may be unchanging (if you don't count the numerous different translations as "changing"). And, if you don't count the ways in which the New Testament is believed by Christians to supercede the Old Testament. But concepts of morality are constantly changing. All morality is a function of time and location. What is moral to a person in Afghanistan may not be moral to one in Alabama, and vice versa. What was viewed as moral in the American south for hundreds of years is no longer viewed that way.

04-bow04-bow04-bow
10-07-2017 12:47 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Garbage Religion
So if moral values change, i.e., homosexuality then it makes old morals wrong and the new ones right? Keep believing that. If morals change it's because people have become so accustomed to the "new" morals that they think it's the right thing. As for different translations, anyone can get a hair up the ying-yang and decide that he'll write another version to suit his/hers new morals. How could anyone believe that there would be lesbian pastors in churches married to another lesbian sermonizing about morals? But we have it now in some churches when the Bible very explicitly tells us what God thinks about homosexuality.

So go on denying what's on the Bible and start your own religion, I hear it can be a good money making venture with so doing it for money.
10-07-2017 03:20 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Garbage Religion
(10-07-2017 03:20 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  So if moral values change, i.e., homosexuality then it makes old morals wrong and the new ones right? Keep believing that. If morals change it's because people have become so accustomed to the "new" morals that they think it's the right thing. As for different translations, anyone can get a hair up the ying-yang and decide that he'll write another version to suit his/hers new morals. How could anyone believe that there would be lesbian pastors in churches married to another lesbian sermonizing about morals? But we have it now in some churches when the Bible very explicitly tells us what God thinks about homosexuality.

So go on denying what's on the Bible and start your own religion, I hear it can be a good money making venture with so doing it for money.

I think your problem is that you think there are "right" moral values and "wrong" ones. Moral values are not absolute and they are not universal. They do not depend on what someone thinks their god tells them.

I'm not denying what's in the Bible. I'm simply saying that the Bible is not an absolute authority regarding moral values, any more than the sacred writings of any other religion are. The Bible is a collection of writings that reflect the moral values of their authors at the time and place they were written. No more, no less.
10-07-2017 03:47 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Garbage Religion
I agree to disagree and leave it at that. Like I've told you before, your ideas aren't gonna change mine and vice versa.
10-07-2017 03:59 PM
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stinkfist Online
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Post: #38
RE: Garbage Religion
(10-07-2017 03:59 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I agree to disagree and leave it at that. Like I've told you before, your ideas aren't gonna change mine and vice versa.

nobody was trying to change your mind.....regardless of any faith, it is always about opening others.....
(This post was last modified: 10-07-2017 04:17 PM by stinkfist.)
10-07-2017 04:16 PM
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Post: #39
Garbage Religion
(10-07-2017 03:20 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  So if moral values change, i.e., homosexuality then it makes old morals wrong and the new ones right? Keep believing that. If morals change it's because people have become so accustomed to the "new" morals that they think it's the right thing. As for different translations, anyone can get a hair up the ying-yang and decide that he'll write another version to suit his/hers new morals. How could anyone believe that there would be lesbian pastors in churches married to another lesbian sermonizing about morals? But we have it now in some churches when the Bible very explicitly tells us what God thinks about homosexuality.

So go on denying what's on the Bible and start your own religion, I hear it can be a good money making venture with so doing it for money.


Joseph Smith did quite well at that.


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10-07-2017 06:00 PM
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Ohio Poly Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Garbage Religion
(10-06-2017 12:06 AM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:34 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  Wasn't the Vegas shooter a Christian.


Nice try, but he was an atheist. Also, a registered Democrat.


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Kaplony is demanding that you back up your claims with evidence...
10-08-2017 08:01 PM
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