I'm sure this is primarily about Iraqi Kurdistan, but Turkey holding military talks with Iran is disturbing. Turkey is no longer a reliable partner for NATO.

http://en.mehrnews.com/news/128336/Turke...-in-Tehran

(10-04-2017 10:09 AM)bullet Wrote:  I'm sure this is primarily about Iraqi Kurdistan, but Turkey holding military talks with Iran is disturbing. Turkey is no longer a reliable partner for NATO.

http://en.mehrnews.com/news/128336/Turke...-in-Tehran

1) Turkey has not been a reliable partner for decades.
2) The Kurds are kind of our allies, but they're probably only marginally more reliable than the Turks
3) Iran and Turkey are not going to be much as far as allies in the region. Iran backs Assad and Erdogan hates him.
4) Seeing as our government is just letting Putin do what he wants, I'm not sure that 'losing' Turkey is really much of a loss.
5) I don't see the strategic US interest here

But since Erdogan is a conservative authoritarian, Trump probably will let him do what he wants.

Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

(10-04-2017 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

(10-04-2017 10:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

(10-04-2017 10:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

(10-04-2017 10:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

Also, didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian fighter jet not that long ago?

(10-04-2017 12:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

Also, didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian fighter jet not that long ago?

Yes they did. But they made up when they realized that Erdogan and Putin are allies in the fight against human rights and free and fair elections. Putin and Erdogan patched things up quite well after that. Putin, Orban, Le Pen, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Farange....all really the same thing.

(10-04-2017 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:32 AM)bullet Wrote:  Should Russia ever invade Europe, a counterattack from Turkey would be a grave danger to their forces. It is very important strategically as it is a 2nd front that could cut off their troops in central Europe.

Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

Also, didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian fighter jet not that long ago?

Yes they did. But they made up when they realized that Erdogan and Putin are allies in the fight against human rights and free and fair elections. Putin and Erdogan patched things up quite well after that. Putin, Orban, Le Pen, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Farange....all really the same thing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they "made up". I mean, the Russian ambassador was murdered in Ankara not long ago and Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Crimea annexation, etc. I would say the are tolerating each other like most nations that don't really like each other do.

(10-04-2017 01:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:35 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Erdogan and Putin are in alliance. They're both authoritarians. You won't get any help from Turkey so long as Erdogan is in power. And Trump isn't going to do squat to oppose Putin on anything. Putin hates NATO, so does Trump.

This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

Also, didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian fighter jet not that long ago?

Yes they did. But they made up when they realized that Erdogan and Putin are allies in the fight against human rights and free and fair elections. Putin and Erdogan patched things up quite well after that. Putin, Orban, Le Pen, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Farange....all really the same thing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they "made up". I mean, the Russian ambassador was murdered in Ankara not long ago and Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Crimea annexation, etc. I would say the are tolerating each other like most nations that don't really like each other do.

The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

(10-04-2017 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 10:40 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is laughable and demostably incorrect. The US bombed Syrian airbases and destroyed Russian equipment in the process. The two governments are currently involved in a tit for tat war of dismissing diplomats. Sanctions on Russia were recently increased and Trump did nothing to stop it. The US is currently working on an arms deal for the Ukraine. Sorry....you're judging making crap up this point.

Also, didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian fighter jet not that long ago?

Yes they did. But they made up when they realized that Erdogan and Putin are allies in the fight against human rights and free and fair elections. Putin and Erdogan patched things up quite well after that. Putin, Orban, Le Pen, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Farange....all really the same thing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they "made up". I mean, the Russian ambassador was murdered in Ankara not long ago and Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Crimea annexation, etc. I would say the are tolerating each other like most nations that don't really like each other do.

The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

(10-04-2017 01:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:38 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Also, didn't Turkey shoot down a Russian fighter jet not that long ago?

Yes they did. But they made up when they realized that Erdogan and Putin are allies in the fight against human rights and free and fair elections. Putin and Erdogan patched things up quite well after that. Putin, Orban, Le Pen, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Farange....all really the same thing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they "made up". I mean, the Russian ambassador was murdered in Ankara not long ago and Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Crimea annexation, etc. I would say the are tolerating each other like most nations that don't really like each other do.

The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

They're both working to continue the conflict. Neither has a solution. Both have angles to profit from the chaos. Remember its not about Turkey or Russia but about Erdogan and Putin. Both have goals that are more important to them than their nations'. Its to stay in power, abuse minorities, and trample human rights.

The problem with Turkey is they have a significant sized restless Kurd population and they fear that a independent Kurd nation would embolden them to seek independence as well. Frankly, I dont care. I think the Kurds loyalty to the US should be rewarded. If need be, let the US patrol a "neutral zone" between Turkey and any new "Kurd Nation" created. That should eliminate any thoughts there would be cross border incursions or any hope of uniting with Turkish Kurds.

Russia's issue is just Russia being Russia. They always seek a buffer and satellite states.

People should stop getting their foreign policy analysis from Jimmy Kimmel and Barbara Streisand, etc.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

(10-04-2017 01:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 12:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Yes they did. But they made up when they realized that Erdogan and Putin are allies in the fight against human rights and free and fair elections. Putin and Erdogan patched things up quite well after that. Putin, Orban, Le Pen, Trump, Erdogan, Duterte, Farange....all really the same thing.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they "made up". I mean, the Russian ambassador was murdered in Ankara not long ago and Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Crimea annexation, etc. I would say the are tolerating each other like most nations that don't really like each other do.

The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

They're both working to continue the conflict. Neither has a solution. Both have angles to profit from the chaos. Remember its not about Turkey or Russia but about Erdogan and Putin. Both have goals that are more important to them than their nations'. Its to stay in power, abuse minorities, and trample human rights.

It's this......and they will do whatever to stay in power. What's your suggestion, should we go to war with both Russia and Turkey?

(10-05-2017 01:54 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:12 PM)VA49er Wrote:  I wouldn't go so far as to say they "made up". I mean, the Russian ambassador was murdered in Ankara not long ago and Turkey refuses to acknowledge the Crimea annexation, etc. I would say the are tolerating each other like most nations that don't really like each other do.

The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

They're both working to continue the conflict. Neither has a solution. Both have angles to profit from the chaos. Remember its not about Turkey or Russia but about Erdogan and Putin. Both have goals that are more important to them than their nations'. Its to stay in power, abuse minorities, and trample human rights.

It's this......and they will do whatever to stay in power. What's your suggestion, should we go to war with both Russia and Turkey?

There is no US solution so long as our country is aligned with both Putin and Erdogan.

Here's what should happen.

1) Immediate expulsion of Turkey from NATO. They don't let us use Encirlik anyway.

2) Stronger bans on Russian oligarchs and especially their families from travelling to civilized nations, including Europe. Expulsion of those in civilized countries. The Russians will change their tune when they can only party in Dubai.

But heck, Trump is in hock to the Russians, so we won't get that.

(10-05-2017 02:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-05-2017 01:54 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

They're both working to continue the conflict. Neither has a solution. Both have angles to profit from the chaos. Remember its not about Turkey or Russia but about Erdogan and Putin. Both have goals that are more important to them than their nations'. Its to stay in power, abuse minorities, and trample human rights.

It's this......and they will do whatever to stay in power. What's your suggestion, should we go to war with both Russia and Turkey?

There is no US solution so long as our country is aligned with both Putin and Erdogan.

Here's what should happen.

1) Immediate expulsion of Turkey from NATO. They don't let us use Encirlik anyway.

2) Stronger bans on Russian oligarchs and especially their families from travelling to civilized nations, including Europe. Expulsion of those in civilized countries. The Russians will change their tune when they can only party in Dubai.

But heck, Trump is in hock to the Russians, so we won't get that.

Is that a decision that the US gets to make unilaterally??

What would be the charges for expelling the "Russian oligarchs"? What is their crime?

(10-05-2017 02:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-05-2017 01:54 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Russian Ambassador was murdered in Ankara by a Syrian who was livid over Russia's involvement in mass genocide in Syria. Erdogan isn't really interested in solving Syria either. Turkey doesn't do anything to punish Russia for its brutal abuse of its Turkish/Tatar minority in occupied Crimea.

Erdogan and Putin are working together. Against free elections. Against anti-corruption measures. Against human rights. Against freedom. And Trump is their BFF. In Syria, Erdogan wants to keep the conflict going because then he can personally profit from the Syrian oil that gets illegally shipped through Turkey. Putin just wants chaos in Syria (even he knows that he cannot win in Syria with Assad as his proxy - once ISIS falls apart - another will arise - immediately - because the Syrians loathe Assad) because he wants to blackmail the West by threatening to misbehave unless they acquiesce to his brutal thuggery.

Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

They're both working to continue the conflict. Neither has a solution. Both have angles to profit from the chaos. Remember its not about Turkey or Russia but about Erdogan and Putin. Both have goals that are more important to them than their nations'. Its to stay in power, abuse minorities, and trample human rights.

It's this......and they will do whatever to stay in power. What's your suggestion, should we go to war with both Russia and Turkey?

There is no US solution so long as our country is aligned with both Putin and Erdogan.

Here's what should happen.

1) Immediate expulsion of Turkey from NATO. They don't let us use Encirlik anyway.

2) Stronger bans on Russian oligarchs and especially their families from travelling to civilized nations, including Europe. Expulsion of those in civilized countries. The Russians will change their tune when they can only party in Dubai.

But heck, Trump is in hock to the Russians, so we won't get that.

You didnt get that under Obama either. I mean--the mistreatment and murder of LBG individuals in these countries didnt just start on Jan 20th 2017. Strange its just now suddenly an issue with you. I wonder why.....

(10-05-2017 03:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-05-2017 02:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-05-2017 01:54 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-04-2017 01:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  Turkey is supporting a group trying to overthrow Assad. Russia is supporting Assad and attacking that group. Turkey has attacked the Kurds in Syria. Russia is not attacking them. The only thing they agree on in Syria is that they didn't like ISIS (but Russia isn't attacking them) and they didn't like the decimated democratic rebels that the US supported. Saying they are aligned in Syria is ridiculous.

They're both working to continue the conflict. Neither has a solution. Both have angles to profit from the chaos. Remember its not about Turkey or Russia but about Erdogan and Putin. Both have goals that are more important to them than their nations'. Its to stay in power, abuse minorities, and trample human rights.

It's this......and they will do whatever to stay in power. What's your suggestion, should we go to war with both Russia and Turkey?

There is no US solution so long as our country is aligned with both Putin and Erdogan.

Here's what should happen.

1) Immediate expulsion of Turkey from NATO. They don't let us use Encirlik anyway.

2) Stronger bans on Russian oligarchs and especially their families from travelling to civilized nations, including Europe. Expulsion of those in civilized countries. The Russians will change their tune when they can only party in Dubai.

But heck, Trump is in hock to the Russians, so we won't get that.

You didnt get that under Obama either. I mean--the mistreatment and murder of LBG individuals in these countries didnt just start on Jan 20th 2017. Strange its just now suddenly an issue with you. I wonder why.....

Tom's hair is on fire....all the world's ills fall on Trump.....

A broken record repeating itself over and over.........and over and over.........