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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Football thoughts
There ya go.
10-25-2017 10:07 AM
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OhioPlayer_84 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Football thoughts
(10-08-2017 02:41 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  The current coaching staff aside -

Why do you Flash fans think it is so hard to build a program?

Never had any consistent coaching besides Coach Martin…nobody wants to stay at KSU, Hazell came won for 1 and left, they struggled at Purdue…he wasn’t ready yet, but he jumped for the $ but can you really blame him?
10-26-2017 12:13 PM
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BuckeyeFlyerFlash Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Football thoughts
KSU needs to try to develop a "culture of winning" for football- similar to basketball/ baseball/ wrestling- where the "culture of winning" goes beyond the coaching changes-probably would help if AD and Admin would show $$/verbalize commitment to Football ?
10-26-2017 05:20 PM
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GFlash68 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Football thoughts
(10-26-2017 12:13 PM)OhioPlayer_84 Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 02:41 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  The current coaching staff aside -

Why do you Flash fans think it is so hard to build a program?

Never had any consistent coaching besides Coach Martin…nobody wants to stay at KSU, Hazell came won for 1 and left, they struggled at Purdue…he wasn’t ready yet, but he jumped for the $ but can you really blame him?
I take a different opinion on this subject and actually reject the premise of the question. I do not believe that it is that difficult to build a winning program. I did not say a championship program, but a program that most of us would like to support. In a MAC program, the AD is more of a factor than the coach. A winning coach is at a MAC school for 4-5 years or maybe less. It is up to the AD to recognize this and plan for it. I have to add that the AD almost needs to have a FB background and have the proverbial list of candidates in his vest pocket from day one. Look at Toledo, lose a great young coach in Campbell, and never miss a beat. We lose Don James and Mike Lude without hesitation appoints Don Fitzgerald who proceeds to have a better record that James. If the AD feels that he must spend university money to hire a search firm to find a coach, most likely the battle is lost. Just my humble opinion.
10-26-2017 08:17 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Football thoughts
(10-26-2017 08:17 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  
(10-26-2017 12:13 PM)OhioPlayer_84 Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 02:41 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  The current coaching staff aside -

Why do you Flash fans think it is so hard to build a program?

Never had any consistent coaching besides Coach Martin…nobody wants to stay at KSU, Hazell came won for 1 and left, they struggled at Purdue…he wasn’t ready yet, but he jumped for the $ but can you really blame him?
I take a different opinion on this subject and actually reject the premise of the question. I do not believe that it is that difficult to build a winning program. I did not say a championship program, but a program that most of us would like to support. In a MAC program, the AD is more of a factor than the coach. A winning coach is at a MAC school for 4-5 years or maybe less. It is up to the AD to recognize this and plan for it. I have to add that the AD almost needs to have a FB background and have the proverbial list of candidates in his vest pocket from day one. Look at Toledo, lose a great young coach in Campbell, and never miss a beat. We lose Don James and Mike Lude without hesitation appoints Don Fitzgerald who proceeds to have a better record that James. If the AD feels that he must spend university money to hire a search firm to find a coach, most likely the battle is lost. Just my humble opinion.

Back in the day there was no such thing as a search firm ... certainly not in the way they are set up now ...

Search firms now are like shoe companies (see AAU/College basketball) ... college presidents, athletic directors and coaches for FB and BB are all hired through search firms, and if you look closely enough the thread often runs from the top ...

It is not about finding a 'fit' it's about fitting a client into an open position. ...

As for Kent State ... how many search firms are going to send one of their top clients to coach at KSU ... to be paid low money at KSU ... and probably not succeed. How man clients would stay with a search firm that puts Kent State in front of them as their best offer. This is not 1980, 1990, 2000, or even 2010. If Kent is smart ????????? it will have a coach in hand before firing one and going on a 'search.'

Because firing a new coach probably means multiple player exits as well (remember the end of the Cordelli era) and the NCAA only allows 25 new recruits a season. Glen Mason's poor *overall recruiting (not coaching, recruiting) and Cordelli's failed era in great measure had led Kent to where it is now. .... The chances of Kent getting another Cordelli are much greater than getting another Mason (who could at least coach) or Hazel.

*(Go back and look up the list of recruits Mason signed, and if there is an offensive or defensive lineman on it, let me know their name).
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 07:24 AM by cleveland.)
10-27-2017 06:54 AM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Football thoughts
A good friend of mine, the late Mike Drake, was an assistant coach at KSU and did radio commentaryand counseling after he became ill.

At that time, when Dean Pees was hired as HC, the university said it was going to make a renewed commitment to football, which one would think would mean more money for salaries and recruiting, improving facilities.

Must not have worked because Pees bolted for NFL after five years and .250 winning percentage.
10-27-2017 11:23 AM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Football thoughts
(10-27-2017 06:54 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(10-26-2017 08:17 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  
(10-26-2017 12:13 PM)OhioPlayer_84 Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 02:41 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  The current coaching staff aside -

Why do you Flash fans think it is so hard to build a program?

Never had any consistent coaching besides Coach Martin…nobody wants to stay at KSU, Hazell came won for 1 and left, they struggled at Purdue…he wasn’t ready yet, but he jumped for the $ but can you really blame him?
I take a different opinion on this subject and actually reject the premise of the question. I do not believe that it is that difficult to build a winning program. I did not say a championship program, but a program that most of us would like to support. In a MAC program, the AD is more of a factor than the coach. A winning coach is at a MAC school for 4-5 years or maybe less. It is up to the AD to recognize this and plan for it. I have to add that the AD almost needs to have a FB background and have the proverbial list of candidates in his vest pocket from day one. Look at Toledo, lose a great young coach in Campbell, and never miss a beat. We lose Don James and Mike Lude without hesitation appoints Don Fitzgerald who proceeds to have a better record that James. If the AD feels that he must spend university money to hire a search firm to find a coach, most likely the battle is lost. Just my humble opinion.

Back in the day there was no such thing as a search firm ... certainly not in the way they are set up now ...

Search firms now are like shoe companies (see AAU/College basketball) ... college presidents, athletic directors and coaches for FB and BB are all hired through search firms, and if you look closely enough the thread often runs from the top ...

It is not about finding a 'fit' it's about fitting a client into an open position. ...

As for Kent State ... how many search firms are going to send one of their top clients to coach at KSU ... to be paid low money at KSU ... and probably not succeed. How man clients would stay with a search firm that puts Kent State in front of them as their best offer. This is not 1980, 1990, 2000, or even 2010. If Kent is smart ????????? it will have a coach in hand before firing one and going on a 'search.'

Because firing a new coach probably means multiple player exits as well (remember the end of the Cordelli era) and the NCAA only allows 25 new recruits a season. Glen Mason's poor *overall recruiting (not coaching, recruiting) and Cordelli's failed era in great measure had led Kent to where it is now. .... The chances of Kent getting another Cordelli are much greater than getting another Mason (who could at least coach) or Hazel.

*(Go back and look up the list of recruits Mason signed, and if there is an offensive or defensive lineman on it, let me know their name).

Since we are on the topic, search firms are responsible for a lot of GREAT coaching hires. In my back yard, Justin Fuente and Mike Norvell to Memphis were both search firm hires. Fuente is doing a hell of a job now at VT succeeding Beamer and Norvell is a heavy favorite to end up at Arkansas if they let Bielema go after the season. It just comes down to a candidate they can place that isn't ready yet for a big time job. They still get paid and the coach gets a head coaching job. IMO, it's a win/win for everyone.
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 12:44 PM by dannyb73.)
10-27-2017 12:42 PM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Football thoughts
(10-27-2017 12:42 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(10-27-2017 06:54 AM)cleveland Wrote:  
(10-26-2017 08:17 PM)GFlash68 Wrote:  
(10-26-2017 12:13 PM)OhioPlayer_84 Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 02:41 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  The current coaching staff aside -

Why do you Flash fans think it is so hard to build a program?

Never had any consistent coaching besides Coach Martin…nobody wants to stay at KSU, Hazell came won for 1 and left, they struggled at Purdue…he wasn’t ready yet, but he jumped for the $ but can you really blame him?
I take a different opinion on this subject and actually reject the premise of the question. I do not believe that it is that difficult to build a winning program. I did not say a championship program, but a program that most of us would like to support. In a MAC program, the AD is more of a factor than the coach. A winning coach is at a MAC school for 4-5 years or maybe less. It is up to the AD to recognize this and plan for it. I have to add that the AD almost needs to have a FB background and have the proverbial list of candidates in his vest pocket from day one. Look at Toledo, lose a great young coach in Campbell, and never miss a beat. We lose Don James and Mike Lude without hesitation appoints Don Fitzgerald who proceeds to have a better record that James. If the AD feels that he must spend university money to hire a search firm to find a coach, most likely the battle is lost. Just my humble opinion.

Back in the day there was no such thing as a search firm ... certainly not in the way they are set up now ...

Search firms now are like shoe companies (see AAU/College basketball) ... college presidents, athletic directors and coaches for FB and BB are all hired through search firms, and if you look closely enough the thread often runs from the top ...

It is not about finding a 'fit' it's about fitting a client into an open position. ...

As for Kent State ... how many search firms are going to send one of their top clients to coach at KSU ... to be paid low money at KSU ... and probably not succeed. How man clients would stay with a search firm that puts Kent State in front of them as their best offer. This is not 1980, 1990, 2000, or even 2010. If Kent is smart ????????? it will have a coach in hand before firing one and going on a 'search.'

Because firing a new coach probably means multiple player exits as well (remember the end of the Cordelli era) and the NCAA only allows 25 new recruits a season. Glen Mason's poor *overall recruiting (not coaching, recruiting) and Cordelli's failed era in great measure had led Kent to where it is now. .... The chances of Kent getting another Cordelli are much greater than getting another Mason (who could at least coach) or Hazel.

*(Go back and look up the list of recruits Mason signed, and if there is an offensive or defensive lineman on it, let me know their name).

Since we are on the topic, search firms are responsible for a lot of GREAT coaching hires. In my back yard, Justin Fuente and Mike Norvell to Memphis were both search firm hires. Fuente is doing a hell of a job now at VT succeeding Beamer and Norvell is a heavy favorite to end up at Arkansas if they let Bielema go after the season. It just comes down to a candidate they can place that isn't ready yet for a big time job. They still get paid and the coach gets a head coaching job. IMO, it's a win/win for everyone.
Speaking of coaches - here's a name out of KSUs past that will ring a bell to some of us - Jon Heacock - he left Toledo with Campbell and is getting lots of credit for engineering ISUs big win over TCU yesterday. I might vaguely recall his name being mentioned when PH was hired?
10-29-2017 07:27 AM
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