W&M's passer efficiency conference ranking, 2000-present:

2000: 5
2001: 3
2002: 1
2003: 1
2004: 1
2005: 3
2006: 9
2007: 6
2008: 7
2009: 8
2010: 4
2011: 10
2012: 9
2013: 9
2014: 7
2015: 3
2016: 5
2017: 9

If you like charts, here's W&M versus the rest of the conference over that time period:



They've never bottomed out because there have been some really atrocious passing offenses in the conference that drag down the average. Since Campbell graduated they've had two seasons of top-5 conference QB play: CallaPaulus in 2010 and Cluley in 2015. I'm just a dumb message board poster but that looks like a downward trend that was halted somewhat after Rogers was brought in but is back in force. I'll need someone smart to confirm that for me. Changing QBs feels good but it's hard to see how it's more than just deck chairs on the Titanic unless something major changes with how the offense works. If the argument is that you need an experienced QB to run this offense doesn't that suggest you should get Mitchell in there now so he can learn sometime before he's a junior?

(10-08-2017 07:47 AM)hktribefan Wrote:  

(10-07-2017 09:53 PM)Zorch Wrote:  9. Like all of you, I was glad to see Battle in and McKee out. Too damn bad it wasn't done earlier in the season before the season got away from us. Now we will need to win out to go to the playoffs. But I am always a believer.

7-4 out of the CAA is good for a playoff bid. 8-3 is a lock, but 7-4 is pretty high probability.

I want to believe.

there's no point to playing the freshman QB now. If that was going to happen, it should've been at UVA, or at the minimum should've got reps during the non-CAA games so he would be ready.

give Battle the rest of the season and see what they show in the off season.

(10-08-2017 03:10 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  there's no point to playing the freshman QB now. If that was going to happen, it should've been at UVA, or at the minimum should've got reps during the non-CAA games so he would be ready.

give Battle the rest of the season and see what they show in the off season.

I agree 100% re: Mitchell. Red shirt him this year, and give him the green light for 2018.

Purdue is using two QB's this year, and have managed a 3-2 record so far.

I would use both Battle and McKee, going with the hot hand, albeit on a short leash a la Purdue. They both bring something to the table; let them both play. I know the old saying is that when you have two QB's, you don't have a QB, but that's the boat we're in now while Mitchell uses the year to get wiser, and more mature physically.

If we play both Battle and McKee, and redshirt Mitchell, all of my angst disappears as I have no I problems taking our lumps this year for the long-term betterment of the program.

Now that we've reached the fork in the road, hopefully, the play book gets expanded to suit the strengths of Battle and McKee, and we start being aggressive as we're playing for 2018 and beyond.

Just give JMU a game, and beat the Spiders! Go Tribe!

Let me make my point about the WRs again because my point wasn't taken as I intended. My reference point is that folks are saying that we're wasting all of our WR talent. We've got a lot of depth and some big guys that we're not used to having, but we're also not loaded with players like McBride or Rich Muzinski either.

I didn't say they aren't trying hard, and I'm not singling any of them out as playing poorly, but only Dedmon was really a threat to break away deep, and maybe Christian if he can stay on the field. To me a difference maker is someone who needs to be double teamed and can be counted on to catch balls in traffic. We don't have those guys on our team or at least they aren't playing. I thought Dedmon and Christian would be scary to other team and cause problems.

I hope we'll see more improvement with Battle taking first team reps all week and getting more rhythm with he receivers. If so maybe I'll change my tune.

(10-08-2017 10:42 AM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  A substitute qb at Iowa State played 78 snaps at qb and linebacker in win at Norman. There's a player.

Maybe you found a new team to cheer for...them USC, Davis, blah blah blah.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(10-08-2017 03:10 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  there's no point to playing the freshman QB now. If that was going to happen, it should've been at UVA, or at the minimum should've got reps during the non-CAA games so he would be ready.

give Battle the rest of the season and see what they show in the off season.

The problem is that at least recently the incumbent QB has stayed as the starter the next year. When's the last time a guy ended the season as the starter, returned, and wasn't the starter the next year? Corley got the job as a freshman and kept it. Campbell got the job as a junior and kept it. Phillips got the job midseason as a freshman and kept it (for better or worse). Paulus got the job back to start 2011 even though it was clear early on that Dr. Nick Riviera replaced his rotator cuff with tissue paper and he couldn't throw with any velocity. Caprio ended 2011 as the starter, then started 2012 until he got hurt. Graham ended the year as the starter and opened 2013 until he got hurt. Cluley got the job in 2014 and kept it. Not all of the guys on that list had fantastic seasons but they kept their job.

I don't know if Mitchell is ready or not. Reliable sources have hyped him as the greatest thing since sliced bread since he committed. I'm also fine with giving Battle some games since this season is lost and the goal should be to see who can lead the offense next year. I wrote at the beginning of the year I felt good about 2018 and I still feel that way. My concern is that if Mitchell doesn't play now we won't see him until everyone older than him graduates.

(10-08-2017 06:03 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 03:10 PM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  there's no point to playing the freshman QB now. If that was going to happen, it should've been at UVA, or at the minimum should've got reps during the non-CAA games so he would be ready.

give Battle the rest of the season and see what they show in the off season.

The problem is that at least recently the incumbent QB has stayed as the starter the next year. When's the last time a guy ended the season as the starter, returned, and wasn't the starter the next year? Corley got the job as a freshman and kept it. Campbell got the job as a junior and kept it. Phillips got the job midseason as a freshman and kept it (for better or worse). Paulus got the job back to start 2011 even though it was clear early on that Dr. Nick Riviera replaced his rotator cuff with tissue paper and he couldn't throw with any velocity. Caprio ended 2011 as the starter, then started 2012 until he got hurt. Graham ended the year as the starter and opened 2013 until he got hurt. Cluley got the job in 2014 and kept it. Not all of the guys on that list had fantastic seasons but they kept their job.

I don't know if Mitchell is ready or not. Reliable sources have hyped him as the greatest thing since sliced bread since he committed. I'm also fine with giving Battle some games since this season is lost and the goal should be to see who can lead the offense next year. I wrote at the beginning of the year I felt good about 2018 and I still feel that way. My concern is that if Mitchell doesn't play now we won't see him until everyone older than him graduates.

I am kinda worried about that too... but if Mitchell is really noticeably better than Battle and is sitting on the bench next year, I figure he would probably move to a new school (and probably a bunch of other players will not be enthusiastic about playing football for a coaching staff that isn't trying to win).

Of course it's also possible that Mitchell hasn't shown anything.

I understand Rocco's concern based on past history, but they're not going to a three QB system for this year.

It makes sense to have the two older guys split the remaining playing time in 2017, and for the younger guy to keep his red shirt ... and go into 2018 with two experienced guys and the younger heir apparent.

With what we've seen over the first five games, it's clear to me that a decision was made before the start of the season that, barring injury, this was going to be a red shirt year for Mitchell. I'm fine with that.

Now, let's go to a two-headed QB for the rest of the year, get aggressive in our play calling, and pick up some W's in 2017 as we anticipate 2018.

[quote='nj alum' pid='14658624' dateline='1507516

Now, let's go to a two-headed QB for the rest of the year
[/quote]

I think that it would be a huge mistake to play both. McKee lost the job and now it is Battle's. Battle has the chance to play great and win the job for next year. Otherwise, Mitchell has a chance next year. I have been saying the same thing as Rocco and Soccerguy: I 'm not sure Mitchell hangs around long enough if he doesn't start next year at the latest.

(10-08-2017 11:07 PM)Zorch Wrote:  [quote='nj alum' pid='14658624' dateline='1507516

Now, let's go to a two-headed QB for the rest of the year

I think that it would be a huge mistake to play both. McKee lost the job and now it is Battle's. Battle has the chance to play great and win the job for next year. Otherwise, Mitchell has a chance next year. I have been saying the same thing as Rocco and Soccerguy: I 'm not sure Mitchell hangs around long enough if he doesn't start next year at the latest.
[/quote]

Losing Mitchell is a valid concern. And if he doesn't see the field this year, based on history, it doesn't seem likely he would start next year. I just don't see a kid with that level of talent sticking around to ride the bench while Battle/McKee finish out their years at WM. It is also somewhat unfair to him to burn his Redshirt this late, but what if he really does walk on water and he could get us to the playoffs? The goal is to win. If the coaches aren't playing to win, that mentality is going to affect the players. If it hasn't already.

amen!!

(10-09-2017 01:02 AM)Tr1befam Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 11:07 PM)Zorch Wrote:  [quote='nj alum' pid='14658624' dateline='1507516

Now, let's go to a two-headed QB for the rest of the year

I think that it would be a huge mistake to play both. McKee lost the job and now it is Battle's. Battle has the chance to play great and win the job for next year. Otherwise, Mitchell has a chance next year. I have been saying the same thing as Rocco and Soccerguy: I 'm not sure Mitchell hangs around long enough if he doesn't start next year at the latest.

Losing Mitchell is a valid concern. And if he doesn't see the field this year, based on history, it doesn't seem likely he would start next year. I just don't see a kid with that level of talent sticking around to ride the bench while Battle/McKee finish out their years at WM. It is also somewhat unfair to him to burn his Redshirt this late, but what if he really does walk on water and he could get us to the playoffs? The goal is to win. If the coaches aren't playing to win, that mentality is going to affect the players. If it hasn't already.
[/quote]

Would agree if Mitchell does not play next year he considers other options. If he is that good, then he should play. He is still young as a TF, and one year to learn the playbook and perhaps muscle up a bit will help him next year. He seemed thrilled about working with Rogers, with his departure soon after signing ended, Shon may have some issues. Hopefully he and Mangas are working well together.

The one thing I keep reminding myself is that Mitchell is very much undersized. I understand that he may have the talent to play (I don't know enough to make that call) but he is the EXACT kind of player that will benefit from a redshirt year in a college weight room.

(10-09-2017 09:18 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  The one thing I keep reminding myself is that Mitchell is very much undersized. I understand that he may have the talent to play (I don't know enough to make that call) but he is the EXACT kind of player that will benefit from a redshirt year in a college weight room.

Russell Wilson measured in at 5'11 190lbs going into his redshirt freshman year in 2008. I looked it up. Shon is listed at 6' 180lbs as a true freshman. There height and weight are very much comparable. If Russell could get by with his size at NC State/Wisconsin, I'm not worried about Shon's size here. I think it is more about learning the system and running the offense.

Mitchell isn't really 6'0" and weighs about 165 or 170. When you are up close it is pretty obvious. I don't think he's going anywhere right now, and I don't count him out playing this year either. Battle isn't a hulk either and he's bound to get dinged up. Anything serious will result in either a return of McKee or burning the redshirt. I can't see them going to Rotger and I'm not even sure if he's healthy.

BTW, Russell Wilson is built like a tank and was when he was younger. He's probably about 5'9" without shoes. He has a canon arm that makes up for a lot of it.

(10-09-2017 12:12 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Mitchell isn't really 6'0" and weighs about 165 or 170. When you are up close it is pretty obvious. I don't think he's going anywhere right now, and I don't count him out playing this year either. Battle isn't a hulk either and he's bound to get dinged up. Anything serious will result in either a return of McKee or burning the redshirt. I can't see them going to Rotger and I'm not even sure if he's healthy.

BTW, Russell Wilson is built like a tank and was when he was younger. He's probably about 5'9" without shoes. He has a canon arm that makes up for a lot of it.

All I can go by is official measurements. I can't devine size from in the bleachers. Summer after Shon's Jr year he was listed at 5'11 170 at the opening combine. It's a recruiting combine. They don't fudge those numbers. Every recruiting service his senior year and William & Mary list Shon at 180 this season. I'm pretty sure he isn't lighter than his Jr year right now.

Russell Wilson's height came from his NFL combine numbers- impossible to fudge. His 190lb freshman weight was mentioned by recruiting services, Collegiate high school, and the official Wolfpack roster. He graduated and currently plays around at 200lbs. Consequently, there has been talk of him trying to lose weight to be more effective.

There could be some liberties with height /weight, but I don't think it could be as drastic a difference as you are indicating.

We are already into 6th game. It might be better for Mitchell to redshirt this year. I don't know how well Battle will do this year, but he should be o.k. Battle has a live arm and can make throws McKee had trouble throwing. We should be o.k. next year with Battle and Mitchell as our QB. With Dedmon coming back and healthy Funderburke, our offense will be better.

I'd really like to see McKee somewhere on the field. H-back, tight end, running back, linebacker... just get him out there. He's clearly a good athlete and a leader. I just don't think the quarterback (or punter) position is where he belongs.

(10-09-2017 12:12 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Mitchell isn't really 6'0" and weighs about 165 or 170. When you are up close it is pretty obvious. I don't think he's going anywhere right now, and I don't count him out playing this year either. Battle isn't a hulk either and he's bound to get dinged up. Anything serious will result in either a return of McKee or burning the redshirt. I can't see them going to Rotger and I'm not even sure if he's healthy.

BTW, Russell Wilson is built like a tank and was when he was younger. He's probably about 5'9" without shoes. He has a canon arm that makes up for a lot of it.

Mitchell may not be 6' but he weighed in for camp at 192.