I'm not one to generally complain about officiating. It a part of the game and mistakes happen. To me every time UC DB's had textbook coverage and pass break up there was a penalty was called. I know they shot themsekves in the foot a lot last night and Hayden is a very bad quarterback, but at the same time you cannot call a phantom pass interference every time UC defense is about to get off the field and expect morale to stay high. Maybe the pass defense textbook needs to be rewritten if what the bearcats DB's were doing is now illegal. As a former football player and coach when you are doing everything right and the Refs are taking opportunities away from you it's draining and frustrating.you start second guess every move you make. Your effort wanes. I don't want to make any excuses for anyone but fair is fair. I played in games where Refs would take over the game. You get so mad it's hard to focus. UC opportunities to get the ball back was disrupted by bad officiating plenty of times in the first quarter.

I take my hat off to the players for keeping their cool. I would have like to see Fickle get in Refs ears a little more to just let them know what they were doing isn't right. As a player I need my coach to let me know he sees what's going on and he's going to take care of it and just be silent on the sidelines.

I like Fickle and I like the defensive staff and I believe this coaching staff will do amazing things. I need more fire on the sidelines.

I agree that there were a lot of bad calls that went against us, particularly at some critical times. Heck, we even had an offensive pass interference that killed a scoring opportunity. I would have loved to rewatch all of those plays just to see whether my initial impressions were correct. Unfortunately, in the stadium they don't replay any plays of interest.

(10-01-2017 03:41 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  I agree that there were a lot of bad calls that went against us, particularly at some critical times. Heck, we even had an offensive pass interference that killed a scoring opportunity. I would have loved to rewatch all of those plays just to see whether my initial impressions were correct. Unfortunately, in the stadium they don't replay any plays of interest.

Oh please. The refs did not lose last nights game.

The refs did not cause us to run up the middle in the first half.

The refs did not cause a return of Tuberville on KO returns.

The refs did not cause us to touch and not catch a punt return.

The refs did not cause Moore to over throw receivers.

The refs did not cause us to miss a short FG.

The refs did not cause us to KO to their 30.

The refs did not cause us to drop an easy TD pass.

The refs did not cause Moore to throw a backward pass into the ground.

If the game had been close we could crab about the refs. It was not even a contest. Both the coaching staff and players were plain dumb last night! Plain dumb.

Refs had little to do with that utter embarrassment.

That was probably the worst all around Bearcat performance at Nippert since the Clinton administration. No excuses needed. The clearly better team flat out kicked our tails at home.

(10-01-2017 04:37 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  

(10-01-2017 03:41 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  I agree that there were a lot of bad calls that went against us, particularly at some critical times. Heck, we even had an offensive pass interference that killed a scoring opportunity. I would have loved to rewatch all of those plays just to see whether my initial impressions were correct. Unfortunately, in the stadium they don't replay any plays of interest.

Oh please. The refs did not lose last nights game.

The refs did not cause us to run up the middle in the first half.

The refs did not cause a return of Tuberville on KO returns.

The refs did not cause us to touch and not catch a punt return.

The refs did not cause Moore to over throw receivers.

The refs did not cause us to miss a short FG.

The refs did not cause us to KO to their 30.

The refs did not cause us to drop an easy TD pass.

The refs did not cause Moore to throw a backward pass into the ground.

If the game had been close we could crab about the refs. It was not even a contest. Both the coaching staff and players were plain dumb last night! Plain dumb.

And I forgot - the refs did not cause our DBs to bite on play action passes - for the last two games. As of now we stink.

I was forced to rely on ESPN3, which limited my vision significantly. However, I agree - the refs had little to do with this loss. Yeah, they missed a couple, but that was not the real problem.

First, we appeared to be out coached. Marshall was way ahead of us in what schemes to use. They had the right defenses in to take away the things that Moore was asked to do. Moore and the OC did not adjust well until later in the game, when Marshall backed off the line a little. (It was easier to run when we were down 20+ points - surprised?)

Second, I expected us to outman Marshall a little (not a lot, just a little), and we absolutely did not do it. Our DL got pushed around just enough, which opened things up for their play action, and their QB was good enough to make it work. Our OL was disappointing once again.

Third - kicking. I know it is tougher than it looks, but man, it looked bad. Didn't we recruit a freshman who was supposed to be pretty good? Might be time to burn a red shirt.

I will continue to support them, but man, I was disappointed. (edited from a more vehement disapproval.)

You are upset I get it. You are pessimistic that's fine. Jump off a ledge do whatever it is you want. Football is a game of leverage. It is a game of momentum.. When that momentum is taken away its very difficult to get it back. This UC team isn't good enough to take back momentum. I'm sorry I don't know what you think the talent level of this team is but you are sorely mistaken. So we were out coached or is it we don't have a quarterback capable of sparking our offense. Yes they should've been doing more outside runs in the beginning of the game because the offensive line isn't good enough to bully them for up the middle runs without them having to take into account every hole I give you that.

None the less the Refs took away positive moment and this team is t good enough to get it back. You can yell scream and cry all you want but we aren't a power school right now and we need all the moment we can get. We are still dealing with players who are trying to learn how to NOT ACCEPT LOSING.

The Refs didn't do a lot of stuff but we are dealing with players who under the last coach wasn't pushed to be strong willed UNTIL THIS SUMMER. to over come bad officiating takes true strength. Yes there was some bad coaching, hell Marshall didn't call all that great of a game, but if we didn't get those 3 or 4 phantom calls there's no telling what the difference in the game would be. This staff is inexperienced working together and you have to prepare for officiating as well. They obviously wasn't prepared to fight that fight and that's on the coaches.

You want to be angry that's fine, you want to blame the coaches? You have every right. But try to be more than a spectator understand the nuances of the game. I'm not blaming the Refs I'm explaining how their bias assisted in the end result.

(10-01-2017 04:37 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  

(10-01-2017 03:41 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  I agree that there were a lot of bad calls that went against us, particularly at some critical times. Heck, we even had an offensive pass interference that killed a scoring opportunity. I would have loved to rewatch all of those plays just to see whether my initial impressions were correct. Unfortunately, in the stadium they don't replay any plays of interest.

Oh please. The refs did not lose last nights game.

The refs did not cause us to run up the middle in the first half.

The refs did not cause a return of Tuberville on KO returns.

The refs did not cause us to touch and not catch a punt return.

The refs did not cause Moore to over throw receivers.

The refs did not cause us to miss a short FG.

The refs did not cause us to KO to their 30.

The refs did not cause us to drop an easy TD pass.

The refs did not cause Moore to throw a backward pass into the ground.

If the game had been close we could crab about the refs. It was not even a contest. Both the coaching staff and players were plain dumb last night! Plain dumb.

Please find where I suggested the refs cost us the game. Thanks

Optimism is a lovely thing. But I'm not sure I can take anyone that seriously who watched that game and came away with the idea that the refs negatively impacted UC's performance. UC got summarily curb stomped because it was not a very good football team last night. End of story.

(10-01-2017 03:24 PM)TheOptimisticCoach Wrote:  I'm not one to generally complain about officiating. It a part of the game and mistakes happen. To me every time UC DB's had textbook coverage and pass break up there was a penalty was called. I know they shot themsekves in the foot a lot last night and Hayden is a very bad quarterback, but at the same time you cannot call a phantom pass interference every time UC defense is about to get off the field and expect morale to stay high. Maybe the pass defense textbook needs to be rewritten if what the bearcats DB's were doing is now illegal. As a former football player and coach when you are doing everything right and the Refs are taking opportunities away from you it's draining and frustrating.you start second guess every move you make. Your effort wanes. I don't want to make any excuses for anyone but fair is fair. I played in games where Refs would take over the game. You get so mad it's hard to focus. UC opportunities to get the ball back was disrupted by bad officiating plenty of times in the first quarter.

I take my hat off to the players for keeping their cool. I would have like to see Fickle get in Refs ears a little more to just let them know what they were doing isn't right. As a player I need my coach to let me know he sees what's going on and he's going to take care of it and just be silent on the sidelines.

I like Fickle and I like the defensive staff and I believe this coaching staff will do amazing things. I need more fire on the sidelines.

I'm wondering what you have seen from the defensive staff so far that has you feeling positive about things.

I recognize we are young at LB and short on talent in the secondary but I've been disappointed so far in the defense - with the exception of the Michigan game.

I've seen way too many easy TD throws, where the DB isn't within 5 yards of the receiver. To me, that's either a blown coverage, or DBs slow reacting because they are confused, or bad technique like getting turned around completely (that happened Sat night too). I think Navy just scored again - we still haven't adjusted defensively to the option.

Seriously, after Michigan I thought we would be able to hang in there defensively and steal a win or two, after the last two weeks, I'm really disappointed in the guy as a unit and the coaches getting them ready to go and in the best places to succeed.

Go Cats.

I just want to know why we still have DB's that NEVER look up at the ball. I thought it was due to that clown who ran the program prior but they still aren't locating the ball...ever. There have been multiple passes that could have been picked or at least knocked down if they had one eye on the dang ball when it is in flight.

I realize to do this, you have to be within 10 yards of the receiver you are covering, which isn't always the case, so there's that too.



When is the last time we had a good secondary? Nakamura's sr year?

(10-02-2017 06:47 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I just want to know why we still have DB's that NEVER look up at the ball. I thought it was due to that clown who ran the program prior but they still aren't locating the ball...ever. There have been multiple passes that could have been picked or at least knocked down if they had one eye on the dang ball when it is in flight.

I realize to do this, you have to be within 10 yards of the receiver you are covering, which isn't always the case, so there's that too.



When is the last time we had a good secondary? Nakamura's sr year?

You're 110% right. Bad technique, some of that is coaching, some of that may be talent. The kids play it safe by playing the man and don't trust themselves enough to look back for the ball - which in fairness is a tough (but necessary) thing to do. Bottom line is if I guy isn't going to play the right technique then it's up to the coaches to get someone in there that will. I'd rather have a guy playing the right technique and getting torched than someone out there winging it and getting torched.

I get bent out of shape when Marshall's slow TE is running free uncovered, or when he releases off the line and settles down in the middle of the field and there is no LB or DB within 10 yards - catches the pass and walks into the endzone. To me, that's coaching because guys (LBs and DBs) are that out of position. The one TD pass against Navy - coaching - safety didn't read his keys right and ran right by the slot who caught the TD.

Way too easy. I've seen 5-6 passing TDs already that it was way too easy. I'm not throwing in the towel, but I want to see improvement, even if it doesn't add up to wins.

Go Cats.

No question momentum (and perhaps officiating) contributed to the implosion to some degree Saturday night. When UC recovered the fumble on Marshall's opening drive I was hoping that Moore would throw a quick strike into a corner of the end zone on first down for a touchdown. Up seven and kicking off again you have to wonder if that would have changed the dynamics of the game for UC.

As disheartening as it was, it's going to take some time to rebuild a program that was left on autopilot for too long. I'm not comparing Fickell to Butch Jones but that first season after Kelly I was practically convinced that Jones and staff were a complete disaster. The next season was a major turnaround and a bowl victory.

(10-02-2017 06:47 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I just want to know why we still have DB's that NEVER look up at the ball. I thought it was due to that clown who ran the program prior but they still aren't locating the ball...ever. There have been multiple passes that could have been picked or at least knocked down if they had one eye on the dang ball when it is in flight.

I realize to do this, you have to be within 10 yards of the receiver you are covering, which isn't always the case, so there's that too.



When is the last time we had a good secondary? Nakamura's sr year?

Sometimes it's the arrow and sometimes it's the Indian.

Those 2 guys start at CB by default. There is a reason this staff took a bunch of CBs in class #1 and are still recruiting that position hard. They won't say it publicly but they saw what many of us did last year...that position group needs a ton of help.

(10-02-2017 07:04 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(10-02-2017 06:47 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I just want to know why we still have DB's that NEVER look up at the ball. I thought it was due to that clown who ran the program prior but they still aren't locating the ball...ever. There have been multiple passes that could have been picked or at least knocked down if they had one eye on the dang ball when it is in flight.

I realize to do this, you have to be within 10 yards of the receiver you are covering, which isn't always the case, so there's that too.



When is the last time we had a good secondary? Nakamura's sr year?

Sometimes it's the arrow and sometimes it's the Indian.

Those 2 guys start at CB by default. There is a reason this staff took a bunch of CBs in class #1 and are still recruiting that position hard. They won't say it publicly but they saw what many of us did last year...that position group needs a ton of help.

Yep... remember, Alex Thomas would have been CB#1 if he didn't decide to engage in an armed robbery this past summer.

(10-02-2017 07:04 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(10-02-2017 06:47 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I just want to know why we still have DB's that NEVER look up at the ball. I thought it was due to that clown who ran the program prior but they still aren't locating the ball...ever. There have been multiple passes that could have been picked or at least knocked down if they had one eye on the dang ball when it is in flight.

I realize to do this, you have to be within 10 yards of the receiver you are covering, which isn't always the case, so there's that too.



When is the last time we had a good secondary? Nakamura's sr year?

Sometimes it's the arrow and sometimes it's the Indian.

Those 2 guys start at CB by default. There is a reason this staff took a bunch of CBs in class #1 and are still recruiting that position hard. They won't say it publicly but they saw what many of us did last year...that position group needs a ton of help.

This x1000000000000000000

They know how poorly that position has played in the last half decade. I really don't think we have had a quality player in the corner ranks since Tubs ran Trenier Orr off in 2013.

As far as the busted coverages...they all seem to be due to over the top help not being home. If you look at two of the TD throws by Marshall, Clements and Jacobs are 15 yards from the line of scrimmage with their eyes in the backfield rather than playing over the top halves, which tends to be an issue when your CBs are covering flats and curls.

(10-02-2017 06:28 AM)AABearcat Wrote:  I've seen way too many easy TD throws, where the DB isn't within 5 yards of the receiver.

I've also seen way too many easy first, second, and especially third down throws where the db is no where near the receiver.

(10-02-2017 07:30 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(10-02-2017 07:04 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(10-02-2017 06:47 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I just want to know why we still have DB's that NEVER look up at the ball. I thought it was due to that clown who ran the program prior but they still aren't locating the ball...ever. There have been multiple passes that could have been picked or at least knocked down if they had one eye on the dang ball when it is in flight.

I realize to do this, you have to be within 10 yards of the receiver you are covering, which isn't always the case, so there's that too.



When is the last time we had a good secondary? Nakamura's sr year?

Sometimes it's the arrow and sometimes it's the Indian.

Those 2 guys start at CB by default. There is a reason this staff took a bunch of CBs in class #1 and are still recruiting that position hard. They won't say it publicly but they saw what many of us did last year...that position group needs a ton of help.

Yep... remember, Alex Thomas would have been CB#1 if he didn't decide to engage in an armed robbery this past summer.

Someone in our section offered to start a collection to drum up bail money for Thomas if we could get him back on the field.

You may be right that the officials were bad but uc was bad enough that i didn't really notice and it didn't matter.

(10-02-2017 05:16 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  You may be right that the officials were bad but uc was bad enough that i didn't really notice and it didn't matter.

The PI calls kept enough of those early drives alive when UC was in the game. Officiating was a huge part of Bearcats meltdown over the weekend. This team isn't good enough to have the breaks go against them.