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So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
(10-02-2017 01:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I like Butch Jones as a coach, but he always seemed like an odd fit at Tennessee. He is a Midwestern guy (Michigan), with Midwestern roots (CMU/UC) and never coached a day in the SEC.

That's not the issue (and fwiw, he has family connections and worked in Tampa so he has always recruited FL well).

Butch is a great program builder and a tireless recruiter. He works the kids real hard and has them physically and mentally ready to play. He's just very pedestrian on game day. There is ample evidence of this going back to his days at CMU, at Cincincinnati and now at Tennessee.

Butch will be canned by year end if not earlier to give the Vols a head start. He will likely be coaching in the AAC or at a lower tier P5 school next year.
10-02-2017 02:10 PM
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msm96wolf Online
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RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
He may want to be proactive and send his resume to UCF, SMU or Troy. They may have the HC job available in the near future. 03-wink
10-02-2017 02:27 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
(10-02-2017 12:20 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  at this point there is only 1 game that is highly probable to not be a win and that is Alabama

USCe can be a win
Bamer loss
Kentucky probable win
USM probable win
Missouri sucks if he loses that he should be fired so win
LSU well they are terrible so win
Vandy even if you are trying to say "well they are good this year" it will be the end of the season and their team should be beat down and worn out by then and Tennessee is much deeper so win

that gets them to 9-3 without a bowl game included and they were 9-4 the last two years

at some point they will have to stop churning through coaches especially if one is winning 9+ games and get some continuity and stop paying all the buyouts and having to pay huge money for a coach that knows he has 3 or 4 years max

right now USCe is in trouble with their coaching decision, Missouri is a disaster, Vandy and Kentucky are Vandy and Kentucky

so that leaves UGA and Florida that are doing OK, but both are looking for better than OK (I know UGA is ranked high, but they have played no one)

if Tennessee goes 9+ wins this year and they fire him they are going to be in a world of hurt and will probably only be putting themselves ahead of taking more losses to UGA and Florida until they make the mistake of firing their coach for winning only 8 games or 9 games against a weak schedule and repeat

plus you have to look at the SEC SEC SEC overall it is getting harder and harder for those programs to hire the coaches they really want

going back to Arkansas the deal with motorcycle guy happened at a bad time, but they had an interim coach and forever to make the decision and ended up with a disgruntled Brett B.

LSU was a disaster hell they thought they had Herman to take over a program that was WINNING and he put them on hold to take the call from the dumpster fire at Texas

UCSe had to go with a retread Coach Boom that Florida fired.....Florida had to pay huge dollars to get a coach from CSU and only UGA seems to have done ok on their search

Missouri was a give up, Arkansas will be looking for another coach after this year, Ole' Miss will be as well and Auburn might be

so you have a lot of instability in the SEC SEC SEC coaches, YOU have a coach that has won 9 games the last two years and looks on track to do that again at least, you have several conference programs probably looking to hire (and oh yea A&M as well) and you have fewer and fewer coaches looking to get a "three year shot" to win 10+ games in the SEC SEC SEC

not exactly the wisest time to race to the front of programs firing a coach again and creating more program instability (so he will probably be fired next week knowing the SEC SEC SEC)

I think you are overestimating Butch's coaching acumen. Could he win 9 games this year? Sure, if his team could have a 17 point lead with 3 minutes left. But U.K., Vandy, SCAR and LSU will be close games late. He could just as easily go 5-7.

Jones has had 5 years to show something other than late game incompetence and lack of player development. The comparison between his year 2 and Kirby Smart speaks volumes
10-02-2017 04:44 PM
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HeartOfDixie Online
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RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
(10-02-2017 01:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I like Butch Jones as a coach, but he always seemed like an odd fit at Tennessee. He is a Midwestern guy (Michigan), with Midwestern roots (CMU/UC) and never coached a day in the SEC.

There was some logic to it.

Tennessee has very little in state talent and increasing the talent pipeline has shifted north as opposed to out of Mississippi and Alabama.

Memphis is an Ole Miss town and few playing in Alabama go to Tennessee as opposed to UA/AU or UGA and others.
10-02-2017 08:28 PM
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Artifice Offline
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RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
Tennessee in it's heyday looted northern ga, upstate SC, and mid to western NC, with little opposition, to build out it's team along with the typical limited in state talent and somewhat selective haul from FLA and other hotspots.

Clemson's rise to elite level, as well as an uptick and proliferation of new programs watering down those regions has been the single greatest contributor to UTs slide. They just can't pull the elite talent they used to, especially on the O and D lines. They haven't tanked, but it doesn't take much of a step down to get passed by in the SEC and the region.

I submit that the Vol job is a tough one. It's a pressure cooker because of the ridiculous expectations based on past success and enormous financial resources and facilities... All in an attempt to overcome the fact that the state simply doesn't produce anywhere near the amount of talent needed to be an SEC contender let alone a national one.

I think that's a bitter pill for most Vol fans to swallow. It's easier for me. I'm a fan, but I'm not a native and don't live there anymore.
10-03-2017 09:51 AM
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Post: #16
RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
(10-02-2017 01:59 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I like Butch Jones as a coach, but he always seemed like an odd fit at Tennessee. He is a Midwestern guy (Michigan), with Midwestern roots (CMU/UC) and never coached a day in the SEC.

Maybe UT was thinking along the lines of Saban, Miles, Meyer etc., are all Northern guys with connections to Ohio. He isn't an X and O guy though.
10-03-2017 03:32 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
(10-03-2017 09:51 AM)Artifice Wrote:  Tennessee in it's heyday looted northern ga, upstate SC, and mid to western NC, with little opposition, to build out it's team along with the typical limited in state talent and somewhat selective haul from FLA and other hotspots.

Clemson's rise to elite level, as well as an uptick and proliferation of new programs watering down those regions has been the single greatest contributor to UTs slide. They just can't pull the elite talent they used to, especially on the O and D lines. They haven't tanked, but it doesn't take much of a step down to get passed by in the SEC and the region.

I submit that the Vol job is a tough one. It's a pressure cooker because of the ridiculous expectations based on past success and enormous financial resources and facilities... All in an attempt to overcome the fact that the state simply doesn't produce anywhere near the amount of talent needed to be an SEC contender let alone a national one.

I think that's a bitter pill for most Vol fans to swallow. It's easier for me. I'm a fan, but I'm not a native and don't live there anymore.

Competition for GA talent has always been tough, but Butch was able to get two top 15 recruiting classes. Before writing off the program, I'd like to see what a competent coach (the true scarce resource) could do.
10-03-2017 04:59 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
Though at this point I agree with many who say that Butch is not a great coach (but a great recruiter, etc), he has three things going for him:

1) He did take the team out of the Kiffin-Dooley years, and is one of only a few SEC coaches to win 9 games multiple years in a row (don't know the exact stat).
2) Though Georgia lucked out when it got rid of Richt, and though Richt is obviously much better, the "who are you going to get" question is legitimate. If the team has talent and a coach could come in and win immediately then its a good position to take. But if it is a rebuilding program after an overhyped recruiting class, then it won't look as good. And any coach is going to want a long contract because of the unreasonable expectations of TN fans.
3) The Hurd situation last year works in his favor this year. If Hurd doesn't quit on the team, the narrative is that we would have gone to the Sugar Bowl. And if that happens, there is probably no talk of firing this year even after two tough losses.

On the other hand, the standard for TN coaches is basically being able to beat KY/Vandy consistently, and that hasn't happened. The biggest strike against Jones is his 14-20 record against the SEC. I think TN fans can reasonably expect to beat Vandy, KY, South Carolina, and Missouri most years right now (anything can happen with the right coaching hire). That means we expect at least .500 in the SEC. and beating Florida about half the time should be the standard I think. I always say that Florida brings out the worst in us and until this year Georgia the best. I'm not saying TN should be competing every year for an SEC championship like in the past, but I think a good year means 6-2/7-1 in the SEC (beating at least one or two of Florida/Georgia/Alabama/the other western school).

I think the situation is getting close to where we were with Dooley - the fans had revolted, the coach had lost his players, and the recruits were going to stop coming. But if Hurd sticks it out then we are in a totally different situation, even if we got trounced in that Sugar Bowl.
10-03-2017 06:30 PM
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RE: So does Butch Jones make it to next Saturday?
(09-30-2017 06:37 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  They have a list, but Butch will hang in until the annual drubbing by Bama. That will be the death Knell

who could have seen a drubbing by mizzou coming? (or who couldn't have)
11-12-2017 06:57 PM
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