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SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #31
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 03:02 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 07:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 06:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 11:59 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-03-2017 07:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Personally I think MLS needs to get over themselves

No, MLS is right to want 20,000 seat stadiums with good sight lines for soccer and to prefer smaller filled stadiums over playing in NFL-sized venues. That model is working very well for MLS teams that have such stadiums. If other sports' teams or franchises have different desires, so be it.

If a pro franchise owner wants to build his own NFL palace, or if some Daddy Warbucks wants to donate the money for a college football team to have its own brand new stadium, that's fine, but MLS does just fine with its model.

Did I say an NFL sized venue? No. I said 40,000 for San Diego.

40,000 is still twice the size that most MLS teams prefer, unless they have decided to use an existing venue rather than paying for their own to be built. A team that draws 40,000 for one game and 15,000 to 20,000 for almost every other game should absolutely not build a stadium that seats 40,000, which is why MLS stadiums built for the soccer team are doing it right.

It would be a really dumb business decision for an MLS owner to pay for a stadium that is built and sized for someone else's purposes, and I doubt that will ever happen. Using someone else's stadium while not having to pay for the cost of building the stadium (as in Seattle or Atlanta) is an entirely different matter, obviously.

That's fine. Said MLS owners can pay for everything themselves then. Easy peasy.

Which is what MLS owners have done in Los Angeles, San Jose, New Jersey, etc. That's how it should be: Either it's their money and their specifications, or someone else's money and someone's else's specifications.
10-05-2017 03:22 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #32
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-02-2017 08:41 AM)panite Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 09:32 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 09:21 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 08:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 03:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  And if it doesn't work?

If putting this second ballot measure on the ballot just helps to kill off the possibility of MLS in San Diego and the would-be MLS owners' plan, it's a big win for SDSU. The SD mayor says in that article that he will help arrange for SDSU to use the existing stadium until it's torn down -- if it ever is torn down.

I don't see why SDSU would want to "win" the vote on that ballot proposition. The best case scenario for SDSU football, given the outrageous cost of building any new stadium, is that they kill off all plans for that site, the old stadium stays there out of sheer inertia, and they use their political connections to rent the old stadium at a dirt cheap price indefinitely.

SDSU athletics has almost zero infrastructure debt. I think they owe a few hundred k for some lights on the practice field. They'll be able to afford to finance a new stadium. "The Bank" is not a long term solution.

I've been to a couple of Holiday Bowl games in that stadium. It's not perfect but it's definitely usable and it's not going to collapse. It's in much better shape than Candlestick was before it was torn down.

Hope SDSU gets the stadium and property and uses it which ever way they want too. Maybe they can rent it to the Chargers when they come crawling back to San Diego where they were loved. They can't draw flies in LA. They are even putting tarps over the empty upper decks in a 20,000 seat stadium. 05-stirthepot 03-nutkick 04-jawdrop 07-coffee3 04-cheers

That move still blows my mind. I get that LA is a big media market but there is a such thing as market saturation. LA has TWO NFL teams, two major college football teams, and just about every other professional team. Wouldn't the better idea have just been to promote the team in LA and in nearby Tijuana? And keep their base fan base in one of the countries biggest cities, San Diego?

They have made a lot of people in San Diego anti-Chargers.
10-05-2017 03:46 PM
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k5james Offline
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Post: #33
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 03:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:02 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 07:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 06:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 11:59 AM)Wedge Wrote:  No, MLS is right to want 20,000 seat stadiums with good sight lines for soccer and to prefer smaller filled stadiums over playing in NFL-sized venues. That model is working very well for MLS teams that have such stadiums. If other sports' teams or franchises have different desires, so be it.

If a pro franchise owner wants to build his own NFL palace, or if some Daddy Warbucks wants to donate the money for a college football team to have its own brand new stadium, that's fine, but MLS does just fine with its model.

Did I say an NFL sized venue? No. I said 40,000 for San Diego.

40,000 is still twice the size that most MLS teams prefer, unless they have decided to use an existing venue rather than paying for their own to be built. A team that draws 40,000 for one game and 15,000 to 20,000 for almost every other game should absolutely not build a stadium that seats 40,000, which is why MLS stadiums built for the soccer team are doing it right.

It would be a really dumb business decision for an MLS owner to pay for a stadium that is built and sized for someone else's purposes, and I doubt that will ever happen. Using someone else's stadium while not having to pay for the cost of building the stadium (as in Seattle or Atlanta) is an entirely different matter, obviously.

That's fine. Said MLS owners can pay for everything themselves then. Easy peasy.

Which is what MLS owners have done in Los Angeles, San Jose, New Jersey, etc. That's how it should be: Either it's their money and their specifications, or someone else's money and someone's else's specifications.

That's not what they're trying to do in San Diego however.
10-05-2017 04:05 PM
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k5james Offline
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Post: #34
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 03:46 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-02-2017 08:41 AM)panite Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 09:32 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 09:21 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(09-30-2017 08:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If putting this second ballot measure on the ballot just helps to kill off the possibility of MLS in San Diego and the would-be MLS owners' plan, it's a big win for SDSU. The SD mayor says in that article that he will help arrange for SDSU to use the existing stadium until it's torn down -- if it ever is torn down.

I don't see why SDSU would want to "win" the vote on that ballot proposition. The best case scenario for SDSU football, given the outrageous cost of building any new stadium, is that they kill off all plans for that site, the old stadium stays there out of sheer inertia, and they use their political connections to rent the old stadium at a dirt cheap price indefinitely.

SDSU athletics has almost zero infrastructure debt. I think they owe a few hundred k for some lights on the practice field. They'll be able to afford to finance a new stadium. "The Bank" is not a long term solution.

I've been to a couple of Holiday Bowl games in that stadium. It's not perfect but it's definitely usable and it's not going to collapse. It's in much better shape than Candlestick was before it was torn down.

Hope SDSU gets the stadium and property and uses it which ever way they want too. Maybe they can rent it to the Chargers when they come crawling back to San Diego where they were loved. They can't draw flies in LA. They are even putting tarps over the empty upper decks in a 20,000 seat stadium. 05-stirthepot 03-nutkick 04-jawdrop 07-coffee3 04-cheers

That move still blows my mind. I get that LA is a big media market but there is a such thing as market saturation. LA has TWO NFL teams, two major college football teams, and just about every other professional team. Wouldn't the better idea have just been to promote the team in LA and in nearby Tijuana? And keep their base fan base in one of the countries biggest cities, San Diego?

They have made a lot of people in San Diego anti-Chargers.

I agree but I don't care because it's done and it will go down as one of the greatest days in Aztec football history.
10-05-2017 04:06 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #35
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 04:05 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:02 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 07:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 06:39 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Did I say an NFL sized venue? No. I said 40,000 for San Diego.

40,000 is still twice the size that most MLS teams prefer, unless they have decided to use an existing venue rather than paying for their own to be built. A team that draws 40,000 for one game and 15,000 to 20,000 for almost every other game should absolutely not build a stadium that seats 40,000, which is why MLS stadiums built for the soccer team are doing it right.

It would be a really dumb business decision for an MLS owner to pay for a stadium that is built and sized for someone else's purposes, and I doubt that will ever happen. Using someone else's stadium while not having to pay for the cost of building the stadium (as in Seattle or Atlanta) is an entirely different matter, obviously.

That's fine. Said MLS owners can pay for everything themselves then. Easy peasy.

Which is what MLS owners have done in Los Angeles, San Jose, New Jersey, etc. That's how it should be: Either it's their money and their specifications, or someone else's money and someone's else's specifications.

That's not what they're trying to do in San Diego however.

Yeah, I said in another thread that there isn't a deal to be made between MLS and SDSU. An MLS team wants a soccer-specific stadium that might also be used by a college football team, and SDSU wants a stadium built for college football that might also be used by a soccer team. Both positions make sense, but there's no satisfying middle ground.
10-05-2017 04:44 PM
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k5james Offline
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Post: #36
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 04:44 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 04:05 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 03:02 PM)k5james Wrote:  
(10-04-2017 07:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  40,000 is still twice the size that most MLS teams prefer, unless they have decided to use an existing venue rather than paying for their own to be built. A team that draws 40,000 for one game and 15,000 to 20,000 for almost every other game should absolutely not build a stadium that seats 40,000, which is why MLS stadiums built for the soccer team are doing it right.

It would be a really dumb business decision for an MLS owner to pay for a stadium that is built and sized for someone else's purposes, and I doubt that will ever happen. Using someone else's stadium while not having to pay for the cost of building the stadium (as in Seattle or Atlanta) is an entirely different matter, obviously.

That's fine. Said MLS owners can pay for everything themselves then. Easy peasy.

Which is what MLS owners have done in Los Angeles, San Jose, New Jersey, etc. That's how it should be: Either it's their money and their specifications, or someone else's money and someone's else's specifications.

That's not what they're trying to do in San Diego however.

Yeah, I said in another thread that there isn't a deal to be made between MLS and SDSU. An MLS team wants a soccer-specific stadium that might also be used by a college football team, and SDSU wants a stadium built for college football that might also be used by a soccer team. Both positions make sense, but there's no satisfying middle ground.

There could be with a legitimate ownership group as a partner. This one got pretty far down the tracks before SDSU realized it was a land grab thinly veiled as a stadium deal.

SDSU is having the stadium designed with soccer as well as CFB in mind. With favorable lease terms for a possible MLS tenant it could be a win/win.
10-05-2017 06:29 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #37
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
A 40,000 seater with San Diego St in mind but compatible for soccer with the university in charge of operation and scheduling would be an ideal scenario. MLS can use tarps if they don't need the whole capacity to make things seem less cavernous (the Crew once played in 100,000 seat Ohio Stadium, now that's a real cavern). That's also enough size to still host a decent bowl game but I suspect that Vegas, Levi's, and the new LA NFL venue will be higher on the pecking order.
10-05-2017 08:06 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #38
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 08:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A 40,000 seater with San Diego St in mind but compatible for soccer with the university in charge of operation and scheduling would be an ideal scenario. MLS can use tarps if they don't need the whole capacity to make things seem less cavernous (the Crew once played in 100,000 seat Ohio Stadium, now that's a real cavern). That's also enough size to still host a decent bowl game but I suspect that Vegas, Levi's, and the new LA NFL venue will be higher on the pecking order.

Ideal for the university, but not MLS.

The "Friends" have put Popolus on retainer, but it isn't like there are dozens of stadium architect options. They'll must also get a CA based firm too.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Brass tax is that SDSU started a $500M capital campaign in 2007 and just reached that goal in 2014, but upped it another $250M to just meet that this April. How long will it take them to raise monies for both the land and stadium?

Most of the capital campaign money was through the school's NPR affiliate with athletics only raising half that.
http://thedailyaztec.com/78221/news/sdsu...this-year/

Outside of Papa Doug Manchester, who are their money families?
10-05-2017 08:32 PM
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k5james Offline
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Post: #39
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
(10-05-2017 08:32 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 08:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A 40,000 seater with San Diego St in mind but compatible for soccer with the university in charge of operation and scheduling would be an ideal scenario. MLS can use tarps if they don't need the whole capacity to make things seem less cavernous (the Crew once played in 100,000 seat Ohio Stadium, now that's a real cavern). That's also enough size to still host a decent bowl game but I suspect that Vegas, Levi's, and the new LA NFL venue will be higher on the pecking order.

Ideal for the university, but not MLS.

The "Friends" have put Popolus on retainer, but it isn't like there are dozens of stadium architect options. They'll must also get a CA based firm too.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Populus is already very familiar with making football/soccer friendly venues though.

Quote:Brass tax is that SDSU started a $500M capital campaign in 2007 and just reached that goal in 2014, but upped it another $250M to just meet that this April.

The goals was $500 million. They hit that and in '14 they upped it to $750 million.
This year they finished at over $800 million.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news...story.html

Quote:How long will it take them to raise monies for both the land and stadium?

The school will not be likely paying for the land. The CSU system will by likely issuing bonds.

Quote:Most of the capital campaign money was through the school's NPR affiliate with athletics only raising half that.
http://thedailyaztec.com/78221/news/sdsu...this-year/

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? They're going to be building a campus expansion on the site. Not just a stadium. So who cares where the money comes from?

Quote:Outside of Papa Doug Manchester, who are their money families?

John Moores, Leon Parma, Bob Payne, Jack Goodall and several developers like Dennis Cruzan, Fred Pierce, etc...pretty much everybody on the "Friends of SDSU" list.
10-05-2017 09:06 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #40
RE: SDSU supporters launch ballot initiative for stadium
You must have the $$$ as it's not going to come in buckets from Sacramento or from tuition/fees. You netter have either friends or eminent domain. Universities in the real estate business isn't a wise future venture.
10-05-2017 09:29 PM
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