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Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
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mpurdy22 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 10:40 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  Louisville will get shut down for a year or two, other schools involved will get hit with something moderate, one and done rule will finally be changed within the next 5 years, and by that point everything goes back to business as usual. Agents will continue to find ways to influence, AAU will still be slimy, and coaches will still cheat until the NCAA finally pays the athletes.

So basically nothing earth shattering, unless you are Louisville.

Paying athletes wouldn't fix this. They still get the "black bag" of incentives from boosters and sponsors to go to a school and would still get their paycheck from the school.
09-28-2017 01:08 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 01:08 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 10:40 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  Louisville will get shut down for a year or two, other schools involved will get hit with something moderate, one and done rule will finally be changed within the next 5 years, and by that point everything goes back to business as usual. Agents will continue to find ways to influence, AAU will still be slimy, and coaches will still cheat until the NCAA finally pays the athletes.

So basically nothing earth shattering, unless you are Louisville.

Paying athletes wouldn't fix this. They still get the "black bag" of incentives from boosters and sponsors to go to a school and would still get their paycheck from the school.

That's my contention as well. Hell, I make a six figure income and if someone offered me an additional $100,000 to pack up my bags and move to a certain locale I am gone. Paying a college kid money won't put a stop to it.
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2017 01:11 PM by CliftonAve.)
09-28-2017 01:10 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 11:55 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:12 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  It is too soon to do anything but speculate (which I get is what we are doing now) but the fact that the FBI did this under the NCAA's nose is a pretty big deal.

The NCAA can spin it all they want, but in the public eye they look really bad and this will only compound image issues they had to begin with (around greed and preferential treatment etc...). I suspect that an overhaul is in order, the question is will it be the NCAA fixing this or will it be the P5 (and then some) splitting away and coming up with their own rules?

These kids generate a ****-ton of money and in today's climate they need to see some of that. Regardless of the solution, paying/stipend etc... players will have to be part of that answer.

I don't see it that way...while it isn't far fetched to think the NCAA has some corrupt folks inside...the FBI always likes to keep "close hold" on who knows during criminal investigations.

It is not that the NCAA didn't know the FBI was sniffing around, it is the fact that this level of corruption (still TBD as to how much) was going on under their noses?

It really is only one of two answers:
1 - They were deaf dumb and blind? Not an excuse
2 - OR Were they complicit? Inexcusable


The NCAA is in a no win situation with this one. Almost NOBODY believes Pitino when he says "I didn't know!" So do you think the NCAA can fly that flag and everyone will believe them - No F-ing way? Everybody and their sister thinks that they are dragging their feet on the UNC thing because they don't really want to punish them. And when the NCAA does levy penalties on these places, it is barely a slap on the wrist.

The running joke that "UNO will pay for Kentucky's transgressions" says a lot about what people think of the NCAA system. This just feeds that fire of negative perception all the more...

In the court of public opinion this is an indictment of the NCAA as much as it will be of all the individuals and schools involved.

Okay, and how was the NCAA going to get the evidence needed? The members left them as toothless as possible.
09-28-2017 01:11 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 01:10 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 01:08 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 10:40 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  Louisville will get shut down for a year or two, other schools involved will get hit with something moderate, one and done rule will finally be changed within the next 5 years, and by that point everything goes back to business as usual. Agents will continue to find ways to influence, AAU will still be slimy, and coaches will still cheat until the NCAA finally pays the athletes.

So basically nothing earth shattering, unless you are Louisville.

Paying athletes wouldn't fix this. They still get the "black bag" of incentives from boosters and sponsors to go to a school and would still get their paycheck from the school.




That's my contention as well. Hell, I make a six figure income and if someone offered me an additional $100,000 to pack up my bags and move to a certain locale I am gone. Paying a college kid money won't put a stop to it.

Agreed. Or if a suit company offered you $50K to only wear their brand (and post pics on social media, etc of you in their products, etc) most would take it.

Hell, billionaires cheat to make more money - human nature, very few of us will say, "I/m good, don't need more money"
09-28-2017 01:25 PM
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lance99 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 10:00 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I predict the actually speeds up the P5 breakoff with taking some of the better G5 schools. These schools create their version of far simplier NCAA rules for Basketball and Football. Take the bowl system with them. It will be basically 8 conferences and using using the CFP and new P5 Basketball Committee for decide the tourmaments.

Basically Four 18 team conferences. Rules will allow 1 G5 and 1 FCS two count toward bowl games. They will allow 1-3 power basketball confernces into Basketball and Olympic sports.

Winners - ACC small market teams. I have a feeling B12 will be the conference absorbed into the other four. AAC strong football teams will make the majority of the 8-10 teams needed to join.

Losers - B12 smaller teams. ISU & Baylor may go the way of former SWC teams.

Unkown - Does this force ND into the ACC. Seems like the rest of the Power Leagues tell them to decide. Does BYU get an invite? What about the Academies? If yes to all these, them the magic # for G5 goes to down 3-5.

My predicition -ND, BYU and Academies get into the power conferences. ISU and Baylor drop to G5. SMU, Houston, U_F, SDSU and CSU get the calls to move up.
If they try to break away now it would be suicide for the schools that do it and they(the President's office said Schools) know it.

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09-28-2017 01:28 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?
First a few random thoughts:

1. A layered bureaucracy can't be reformed. Therefore the NCAA should be tossed and new governing institutions with regulatory and enforcement emphasis should be put into place. The institutions should be paid for by the member schools and never should be permitted to pocket proceeds from events with the promise of dolling said proceeds back out.

2. For the good of all college sports scholarships and books and living expenses should be covered tax free. All other sources of revenue to the athletes need to be extraneous to the schools and should be subject to taxes. If Pepsi wants to use Lamar Jackson for promotion of its product that's between Pepsi and Lamar. The governing body and school should not be a party. If Lamar subsequently violates team rules or fails to pass coursework and is dismissed that's the school's business and not Pepsi's. (And for the chronically slow that was a hypothetical illustration.)

3. There is no longer any such thing as an amateur.
*******************************************************************
Suggestions:

1. Create the new regulatory and governing units and do so for each division. That way only schools in a division vote on issues pertinent to them.

2. Permit all athletes to have taxed endorsement revenue beyond the purview of the schools.

3. Clearly delineate the schools rights to discipline, dismiss, and manage the athletes independent of agents or companies.

4. Make all scholarships solid 2 year commitments which may be renewed for an additional 2 years and amended for redshirt, injury, or any other extension of time granted by the governing authority.

5. If an athlete chooses to leave early the school, or professional sports team to which they are leaving is responsible for reimbursing the school they are departing for any unfulfilled time on their two year commitment.


6. The lines of amateurism, eligibility, and investment by the scholarship provider have for too long been blurred. They need to be cleaned up and defined in such ways as to protect the rights of the players and the investments of the schools.
09-28-2017 01:53 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
I do think that the NCAA needs changes. There needs rules put in place and death penalties be enforced for all these schools. Remember, many of these schools are government run, and they just can't break away to form their own organizations because they would still be cracked down by the FBI. You can't hide from the feds, and this is beyond the NCAA itself. New rules could be put in place.

1.No one and done.
2.Schools are free to upgrade without an invite from a conference. This could eliminate the long waits.
3.Large schools from D3 and NAIA could skip D2 to join D1. There are some very large schools at the lower levels.
4.Limit the number of 4 and 5 star players under scholarship for a school for each school. That means many of these players could start right away without riding the bench.
5.Schools that get caught breaking the rules should get the death penalties. Should give Oklahoma men's basketball, Louisville whole AD, all of Penn. State's AD, all of Baylor's sports department, USC football, the whole athletic department at Miami, UNC all sports, Florida State's football because of Winston Gate, and many more.
6.No more split in football at D1 level. FBS and FCS as one. Use the playoffs at the FCS level as an NIT for football.
7.No more hybrid conferences. Non-football schools need to find a new home. I could see the whole CAA football schools become CAA full members, and schools that do not move into conferences like the A10, Northeast and the likes. Patriot League could have Army and Navy as full members including football.
8.This could force schools like VCU, Wichita State, UTRGV and others that are flirting on adding football to add football. This means that UTA and Little Rock must add football, or join a new conference of non-football schools. There could be a new southern plains non-football at D1 that includes the schools from the Southland, WAC, Sun Belt along with schools from the Lone Star Conference, and Christian Brothers from GSC.
9.Conferences that are old like RMAC and Lone Star Conference could move to D1 because of their history. GNAC football schools could come up and restart the Great West Conference which could be a stepping stone for schools like UC-San Diego that wants D1 could have a stop before moving to another conference. This could help the D2 schools like Humboldt State could get a bigger payday as a body bag game against a school like California or Stanford. Many D2 schools are D1 programs stuck at D2 level because of the stupid rules that P5 wanted.
10.Enough schools at D1 could actually create a 2 tier basketball with the lower basketball conference be in 1B and they can have their own tournament that could be put in place to make the big P5 conferences happy that they could get rid of the bottom feeders in basketball which could do away the one and done deal. This would be like how the NAIA structure their system. 1 big league for football, but 2 levels for the rest of the sports.
09-28-2017 01:57 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 01:28 PM)lance99 Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 10:00 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I predict the actually speeds up the P5 breakoff with taking some of the better G5 schools. These schools create their version of far simplier NCAA rules for Basketball and Football. Take the bowl system with them. It will be basically 8 conferences and using using the CFP and new P5 Basketball Committee for decide the tourmaments.

Basically Four 18 team conferences. Rules will allow 1 G5 and 1 FCS two count toward bowl games. They will allow 1-3 power basketball confernces into Basketball and Olympic sports.

Winners - ACC small market teams. I have a feeling B12 will be the conference absorbed into the other four. AAC strong football teams will make the majority of the 8-10 teams needed to join.

Losers - B12 smaller teams. ISU & Baylor may go the way of former SWC teams.

Unkown - Does this force ND into the ACC. Seems like the rest of the Power Leagues tell them to decide. Does BYU get an invite? What about the Academies? If yes to all these, them the magic # for G5 goes to down 3-5.

My predicition -ND, BYU and Academies get into the power conferences. ISU and Baylor drop to G5. SMU, Houston, U_F, SDSU and CSU get the calls to move up.
If they try to break away now it would be suicide for the schools that do it and they(the President's office said Schools) know it.

Sent from my Z988 using CSNbbs mobile app


The idea for the P5 to break away still would not stop the FBI from arresting coaches and all that. I would like to see the government come in and strip these schools that created breaking the laws lose their accreditations, loss of federal and state funding for grants for students/research/others for 10 years. No more money be giving to schools like Penn. State, Baylor, Florida State, UNC and others that broke the laws on book.
09-28-2017 02:01 PM
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Eldonabe Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 01:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:55 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:12 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  It is too soon to do anything but speculate (which I get is what we are doing now) but the fact that the FBI did this under the NCAA's nose is a pretty big deal.

The NCAA can spin it all they want, but in the public eye they look really bad and this will only compound image issues they had to begin with (around greed and preferential treatment etc...). I suspect that an overhaul is in order, the question is will it be the NCAA fixing this or will it be the P5 (and then some) splitting away and coming up with their own rules?

These kids generate a ****-ton of money and in today's climate they need to see some of that. Regardless of the solution, paying/stipend etc... players will have to be part of that answer.

I don't see it that way...while it isn't far fetched to think the NCAA has some corrupt folks inside...the FBI always likes to keep "close hold" on who knows during criminal investigations.

It is not that the NCAA didn't know the FBI was sniffing around, it is the fact that this level of corruption (still TBD as to how much) was going on under their noses?

It really is only one of two answers:
1 - They were deaf dumb and blind? Not an excuse
2 - OR Were they complicit? Inexcusable


The NCAA is in a no win situation with this one. Almost NOBODY believes Pitino when he says "I didn't know!" So do you think the NCAA can fly that flag and everyone will believe them - No F-ing way? Everybody and their sister thinks that they are dragging their feet on the UNC thing because they don't really want to punish them. And when the NCAA does levy penalties on these places, it is barely a slap on the wrist.

The running joke that "UNO will pay for Kentucky's transgressions" says a lot about what people think of the NCAA system. This just feeds that fire of negative perception all the more...

In the court of public opinion this is an indictment of the NCAA as much as it will be of all the individuals and schools involved.

Okay, and how was the NCAA going to get the evidence needed? The members left them as toothless as possible.


So are you saying that the NCAA knows this stuff is going on and choosing to ignore it because there really is nothing they can do about it? That is bull schidt - They basically as guilty as everyone named if that is the case.

They have a license to print money - and they are not about to get in the way of that. They do have the authority and power to compile information and penalize - they have deep pockets to pay for the services needed to research these things. They choose to take the path of least resistance (and most profit). THAT IS A CHOICE.
09-28-2017 03:07 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
Not much of anything...

A few wins here or there and some drama but ultimately next to nothing.
09-28-2017 03:09 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 03:07 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 01:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:55 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:20 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 11:12 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  It is too soon to do anything but speculate (which I get is what we are doing now) but the fact that the FBI did this under the NCAA's nose is a pretty big deal.

The NCAA can spin it all they want, but in the public eye they look really bad and this will only compound image issues they had to begin with (around greed and preferential treatment etc...). I suspect that an overhaul is in order, the question is will it be the NCAA fixing this or will it be the P5 (and then some) splitting away and coming up with their own rules?

These kids generate a ****-ton of money and in today's climate they need to see some of that. Regardless of the solution, paying/stipend etc... players will have to be part of that answer.

I don't see it that way...while it isn't far fetched to think the NCAA has some corrupt folks inside...the FBI always likes to keep "close hold" on who knows during criminal investigations.

It is not that the NCAA didn't know the FBI was sniffing around, it is the fact that this level of corruption (still TBD as to how much) was going on under their noses?

It really is only one of two answers:
1 - They were deaf dumb and blind? Not an excuse
2 - OR Were they complicit? Inexcusable


The NCAA is in a no win situation with this one. Almost NOBODY believes Pitino when he says "I didn't know!" So do you think the NCAA can fly that flag and everyone will believe them - No F-ing way? Everybody and their sister thinks that they are dragging their feet on the UNC thing because they don't really want to punish them. And when the NCAA does levy penalties on these places, it is barely a slap on the wrist.

The running joke that "UNO will pay for Kentucky's transgressions" says a lot about what people think of the NCAA system. This just feeds that fire of negative perception all the more...

In the court of public opinion this is an indictment of the NCAA as much as it will be of all the individuals and schools involved.

Okay, and how was the NCAA going to get the evidence needed? The members left them as toothless as possible.


So are you saying that the NCAA knows this stuff is going on and choosing to ignore it because there really is nothing they can do about it? That is bull schidt - They basically as guilty as everyone named if that is the case.

They have a license to print money - and they are not about to get in the way of that. They do have the authority and power to compile information and penalize - they have deep pockets to pay for the services needed to research these things. They choose to take the path of least resistance (and most profit). THAT IS A CHOICE.

No, you're wrong. The police can know you robbed that bank but without proof they can't do anything about it. They can't make anyone outside of players and coaches come in and speak to them and those two groups can easily stone wall them. Explain how they can make AAU coaches, HS coaches, shoe company execs or anyone else not a coach or player come in and speak to them? How do they get emails from Adidas?

Seriously, explain it all out for me the process they could have gone through to get the evidence needed to end this ring.
09-28-2017 03:16 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?
First a few random thoughts:

1. A layered bureaucracy can't be reformed. Therefore the NCAA should be tossed and new governing institutions with regulatory and enforcement emphasis should be put into place. The institutions should be paid for by the member schools and never should be permitted to pocket proceeds from events with the promise of dolling said proceeds back out.

2. For the good of all college sports scholarships and books and living expenses should be covered tax free. All other sources of revenue to the athletes need to be extraneous to the schools and should be subject to taxes. If Pepsi wants to use Lamar Jackson for promotion of its product that's between Pepsi and Lamar. The governing body and school should not be a party. If Lamar subsequently violates team rules or fails to pass coursework and is dismissed that's the school's business and not Pepsi's. (And for the chronically slow that was a hypothetical illustration.)

3. There is no longer any such thing as an amateur.
*******************************************************************
Suggestions:

1. Create the new regulatory and governing units and do so for each division. That way only schools in a division vote on issues pertinent to them.

2. Permit all athletes to have taxed endorsement revenue beyond the purview of the schools.

3. Clearly delineate the schools rights to discipline, dismiss, and manage the athletes independent of agents or companies.

4. Make all scholarships solid 2 year commitments which may be renewed for an additional 2 years and amended for redshirt, injury, or any other extension of time granted by the governing authority.

5. If an athlete chooses to leave early the school, or professional sports team to which they are leaving is responsible for reimbursing the school they are departing for any unfulfilled time on their two year commitment.


6. The lines of amateurism, eligibility, and investment by the scholarship provider have for too long been blurred. They need to be cleaned up and defined in such ways as to protect the rights of the players and the investments of the schools.

Bear in mind the fact that it is precisely because college athletics are deemed "amateur" that they are considered tax-exempt activities. If you take away that presumption, then they will be deemed by the IRS to be "business activities not related to the institution's tax-exempt purpose". That opens a whole other can of worms, including employee status for athletes and tax-deductibility for booster club donations.
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2017 03:37 PM by ken d.)
09-28-2017 03:27 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 09:13 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?

Thoughts.

There will be investigations. Some people will be the sacrificial lambs and get fired. The powers that be will huff & puff & pound their chest demanding "changes". Some programs will be "punished" and others put on probation. In the end, within 5 years or so, things will go back to the exact same way they are now.

There's WAY too much money to be spread around to think it won't.

Sounds about right.
09-28-2017 03:32 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?
First a few random thoughts:

1. A layered bureaucracy can't be reformed. Therefore the NCAA should be tossed and new governing institutions with regulatory and enforcement emphasis should be put into place. The institutions should be paid for by the member schools and never should be permitted to pocket proceeds from events with the promise of dolling said proceeds back out.

2. For the good of all college sports scholarships and books and living expenses should be covered tax free. All other sources of revenue to the athletes need to be extraneous to the schools and should be subject to taxes. If Pepsi wants to use Lamar Jackson for promotion of its product that's between Pepsi and Lamar. The governing body and school should not be a party. If Lamar subsequently violates team rules or fails to pass coursework and is dismissed that's the school's business and not Pepsi's. (And for the chronically slow that was a hypothetical illustration.)

3. There is no longer any such thing as an amateur.
*******************************************************************
Suggestions:

1. Create the new regulatory and governing units and do so for each division. That way only schools in a division vote on issues pertinent to them.

2. Permit all athletes to have taxed endorsement revenue beyond the purview of the schools.

3. Clearly delineate the schools rights to discipline, dismiss, and manage the athletes independent of agents or companies.

4. Make all scholarships solid 2 year commitments which may be renewed for an additional 2 years and amended for redshirt, injury, or any other extension of time granted by the governing authority.

5. If an athlete chooses to leave early the school, or professional sports team to which they are leaving is responsible for reimbursing the school they are departing for any unfulfilled time on their two year commitment.


6. The lines of amateurism, eligibility, and investment by the scholarship provider have for too long been blurred. They need to be cleaned up and defined in such ways as to protect the rights of the players and the investments of the schools.

Bear in mind the fact that it is precisely because college athletics are deemed "amateur" that they are considered tax-exempt activities. If you take away that presumption, then they will be deemed by the IRS to be "business activities not related to the institution's tax-exempt purpose". That opens a whole other set of worms, including employee status for athletes and tax-deductibility for booster club donations.

Believe me - I'm someone that constantly states here that players should be paid. I have no idea why we're pretending that these players are amateurs with the very clearly professional industry that has been formed around college athletics by the Power Five and TV networks.

That being said, I understand the reality that this is the Rubicon that the NCAA doesn't want to cross unless it's legally compelled to do so (e.g. Supreme Court decision). The compromise would be the Olympic model where the players can receive endorsement income outside of school. This would clearly preserve the tax-exempt status for school athletic departments (even though I personally believe that it wouldn't in jeopardy by paying players directly, anyway), the private marketplace can make the free market-driven decision on its own to compensate football and men's basketball players over other athletes (which avoids the Title IX issues that would effectively force colleges to pay all athletes in all sports equally), and frankly just get what we all know goes on under the table (as evidenced by this FBI investigation) out into the open and on the up-and-up.
09-28-2017 03:40 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 03:40 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?
First a few random thoughts:

1. A layered bureaucracy can't be reformed. Therefore the NCAA should be tossed and new governing institutions with regulatory and enforcement emphasis should be put into place. The institutions should be paid for by the member schools and never should be permitted to pocket proceeds from events with the promise of dolling said proceeds back out.

2. For the good of all college sports scholarships and books and living expenses should be covered tax free. All other sources of revenue to the athletes need to be extraneous to the schools and should be subject to taxes. If Pepsi wants to use Lamar Jackson for promotion of its product that's between Pepsi and Lamar. The governing body and school should not be a party. If Lamar subsequently violates team rules or fails to pass coursework and is dismissed that's the school's business and not Pepsi's. (And for the chronically slow that was a hypothetical illustration.)

3. There is no longer any such thing as an amateur.
*******************************************************************
Suggestions:

1. Create the new regulatory and governing units and do so for each division. That way only schools in a division vote on issues pertinent to them.

2. Permit all athletes to have taxed endorsement revenue beyond the purview of the schools.

3. Clearly delineate the schools rights to discipline, dismiss, and manage the athletes independent of agents or companies.

4. Make all scholarships solid 2 year commitments which may be renewed for an additional 2 years and amended for redshirt, injury, or any other extension of time granted by the governing authority.

5. If an athlete chooses to leave early the school, or professional sports team to which they are leaving is responsible for reimbursing the school they are departing for any unfulfilled time on their two year commitment.


6. The lines of amateurism, eligibility, and investment by the scholarship provider have for too long been blurred. They need to be cleaned up and defined in such ways as to protect the rights of the players and the investments of the schools.

Bear in mind the fact that it is precisely because college athletics are deemed "amateur" that they are considered tax-exempt activities. If you take away that presumption, then they will be deemed by the IRS to be "business activities not related to the institution's tax-exempt purpose". That opens a whole other set of worms, including employee status for athletes and tax-deductibility for booster club donations.

Believe me - I'm someone that constantly states here that players should be paid. I have no idea why we're pretending that these players are amateurs with the very clearly professional industry that has been formed around college athletics by the Power Five and TV networks.

That being said, I understand the reality that this is the Rubicon that the NCAA doesn't want to cross unless it's legally compelled to do so (e.g. Supreme Court decision). The compromise would be the Olympic model where the players can receive endorsement income outside of school. This would clearly preserve the tax-exempt status for school athletic departments (even though I personally believe that it wouldn't in jeopardy by paying players directly, anyway), the private marketplace can make the free market-driven decision on its own to compensate football and men's basketball players over other athletes (which avoids the Title IX issues that would effectively force colleges to pay all athletes in all sports equally), and frankly just get what we all know goes on under the table (as evidenced by this FBI investigation) out into the open and on the up-and-up.


Endorsements? Lamar Jackson gets 500K, and the guys who block for him get nothing. Insane.
09-28-2017 05:26 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
G's up, Ho's Down ; )
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Post: #56
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
I won't believe how serious the FBI is till Nike AND Under Armor come under some scrutiny...otherwise going "after" Adidas sounds kind of bogus and in someways a subversive attack against them making inroads on Nike in certain areas.

Also, I doubt things get too serious with the NCAA, the Feds, and other involved priorities unless they go down the rabbit hole of tax exempt status for universities and start taxing all that tv, and athletic apparel revenue coming in....
09-28-2017 05:29 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
A line of men will be shot. An old school firing line. Louisville, North Carolina, Miami, Cuse, Auburn and Baylor.
09-28-2017 05:56 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?
First a few random thoughts:

1. A layered bureaucracy can't be reformed. Therefore the NCAA should be tossed and new governing institutions with regulatory and enforcement emphasis should be put into place. The institutions should be paid for by the member schools and never should be permitted to pocket proceeds from events with the promise of dolling said proceeds back out.

2. For the good of all college sports scholarships and books and living expenses should be covered tax free. All other sources of revenue to the athletes need to be extraneous to the schools and should be subject to taxes. If Pepsi wants to use Lamar Jackson for promotion of its product that's between Pepsi and Lamar. The governing body and school should not be a party. If Lamar subsequently violates team rules or fails to pass coursework and is dismissed that's the school's business and not Pepsi's. (And for the chronically slow that was a hypothetical illustration.)

3. There is no longer any such thing as an amateur.
*******************************************************************
Suggestions:

1. Create the new regulatory and governing units and do so for each division. That way only schools in a division vote on issues pertinent to them.

2. Permit all athletes to have taxed endorsement revenue beyond the purview of the schools.

3. Clearly delineate the schools rights to discipline, dismiss, and manage the athletes independent of agents or companies.

4. Make all scholarships solid 2 year commitments which may be renewed for an additional 2 years and amended for redshirt, injury, or any other extension of time granted by the governing authority.

5. If an athlete chooses to leave early the school, or professional sports team to which they are leaving is responsible for reimbursing the school they are departing for any unfulfilled time on their two year commitment.


6. The lines of amateurism, eligibility, and investment by the scholarship provider have for too long been blurred. They need to be cleaned up and defined in such ways as to protect the rights of the players and the investments of the schools.

Bear in mind the fact that it is precisely because college athletics are deemed "amateur" that they are considered tax-exempt activities. If you take away that presumption, then they will be deemed by the IRS to be "business activities not related to the institution's tax-exempt purpose". That opens a whole other can of worms, including employee status for athletes and tax-deductibility for booster club donations.

I have it firmly in mind. If you want money for premier football tickets then the donations should be made to the General Fund of the University. That too would curtail cheating, while restoring football to a more appropriate place in campus life.

The University could then set the budget for Athletics like they once did before the athletics balloon inflated.
09-28-2017 06:03 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
(09-28-2017 03:27 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 08:38 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The NCAA in their self-serving ways to protect their billion dollar enterprise will come up with reforms. They'll say CYA statements and apologies that they should have done better. They'll try to put in more feckless controls to enforce rules. They might even ban or put a cap on what shoe companies can pay to schools.

At this point the schools either all take a step back and work on meaningful reforms with the NCAA or more likely the biggest schools break away and form a new association. Could see a new Power 30/60/90/120?

Just my early speculative thoughts.

Feedback?
First a few random thoughts:

1. A layered bureaucracy can't be reformed. Therefore the NCAA should be tossed and new governing institutions with regulatory and enforcement emphasis should be put into place. The institutions should be paid for by the member schools and never should be permitted to pocket proceeds from events with the promise of dolling said proceeds back out.

2. For the good of all college sports scholarships and books and living expenses should be covered tax free. All other sources of revenue to the athletes need to be extraneous to the schools and should be subject to taxes. If Pepsi wants to use Lamar Jackson for promotion of its product that's between Pepsi and Lamar. The governing body and school should not be a party. If Lamar subsequently violates team rules or fails to pass coursework and is dismissed that's the school's business and not Pepsi's. (And for the chronically slow that was a hypothetical illustration.)

3. There is no longer any such thing as an amateur.
*******************************************************************
Suggestions:

1. Create the new regulatory and governing units and do so for each division. That way only schools in a division vote on issues pertinent to them.

2. Permit all athletes to have taxed endorsement revenue beyond the purview of the schools.

3. Clearly delineate the schools rights to discipline, dismiss, and manage the athletes independent of agents or companies.

4. Make all scholarships solid 2 year commitments which may be renewed for an additional 2 years and amended for redshirt, injury, or any other extension of time granted by the governing authority.

5. If an athlete chooses to leave early the school, or professional sports team to which they are leaving is responsible for reimbursing the school they are departing for any unfulfilled time on their two year commitment.


6. The lines of amateurism, eligibility, and investment by the scholarship provider have for too long been blurred. They need to be cleaned up and defined in such ways as to protect the rights of the players and the investments of the schools.

Bear in mind the fact that it is precisely because college athletics are deemed "amateur" that they are considered tax-exempt activities. If you take away that presumption, then they will be deemed by the IRS to be "business activities not related to the institution's tax-exempt purpose". That opens a whole other can of worms, including employee status for athletes and tax-deductibility for booster club donations.

I have it firmly in mind. If you want money for premier football tickets then the donations should be made to the General Fund of the University. That too would curtail cheating, while restoring football to a more appropriate place in campus life.

The University could then set the budget for Athletics like they once did before the athletics balloon inflated.
09-28-2017 06:20 PM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Outcome Predictions of Shoegate
1. I think players are going to start being given a major stipend. The media - whose money is funding this show - are already floating out major test balloons saying "please pay these guys so there is no drama and we can ALL make some money".
2. This will give enough of a push to start a new subdivision. Schools willing to pay the high price under new economic conditions will be able to play. The P5 is safe. The G5 is not, although it will depend on how things shake out.

To be honest, I welcome this new era. Things needed to reach a logical conclusion sooner rather than later. This was a can being kicked down the road.
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2017 10:14 PM by oliveandblue.)
09-28-2017 10:13 PM
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