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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #261
RE: Puerto Rico
(10-13-2017 10:34 AM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  I haven't looked through the 15+ pages of this thread that I've missed since being here before...

Has anyone discussed the recent comments from that commie mayor? Stating that Trump has caused or supports a genocide of the PR people through his response to Maria.

If I were the Gov down there... I'd remove her for cause. She does absolutely nobody any good just making t-shirts and trying to arouse hatred.

Most of those islands are super corrupt, terrible politicians.
10-13-2017 10:42 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #262
RE: Puerto Rico
(10-13-2017 10:34 AM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  I haven't looked through the 15+ pages of this thread that I've missed since being here before...

Has anyone discussed the recent comments from that commie mayor? Stating that Trump has caused or supports a genocide of the PR people through his response to Maria.

If I were the Gov down there... I'd remove her for cause. She does absolutely nobody any good just making t-shirts and trying to arouse hatred.

Oh...the irony of this. 03-lol
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2017 10:50 AM by Redwingtom.)
10-13-2017 10:48 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #263
RE: Puerto Rico
(10-13-2017 10:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Asked and answered. See Post #239.
And they waited too long to do everything...because poor brown people and a golf tournament.
Finally, shove your stupid talking point nonsense. It's such a weak and tired old deflection for anything someone says that you guys don't happen to like.

It's not a weak deflection. It's an accurate statement of fact. You don't have a clue WTF you are talking about.
They didn't wait too,ing because of brown people or a golf tournament. I don't think they waited at all. There was a hurricane in the Atlantic between PR and Norfolk for most of the intervening period. Not prudent to sail into the middle of that. Plus, ships had to be staffed and loaded for the mission before leaving.
Let's look at that post #239.

(10-12-2017 04:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Since it takes several days to get there, it probably could have been sent as soon as the storm hit in all actuality...as soon as the storm was on the gulf side of Florida.
And further on this...now that it's there...with the capability to treat like 800 patients, it was reported yesterday that only 8 patients were being seen. Unacceptable.

Check out the storm track, here for one place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria

Sine it never got into the Gulf, you I guess you would never have sent the ship, which was inport Norfolk/Newport News area. Maria tracked north and threatened the Outer Banks of NC on the 27th, so it would have made little sense to send it before then. The ship had fewer than 100 people onboard and had to staff up to 800 for the trip, plus supplies and fuel had to be loaded. It sailed on the 29th, arriving about Oct 3. All in all, it would have been fairly unreasonable to expect it to go before it did.

How many relief efforts have you ever taken part in or planned? I'm guessing zero.
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2017 10:50 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-13-2017 10:49 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #264
RE: Puerto Rico
(10-13-2017 10:49 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-13-2017 10:23 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Asked and answered. See Post #239.
And they waited too long to do everything...because poor brown people and a golf tournament.
Finally, shove your stupid talking point nonsense. It's such a weak and tired old deflection for anything someone says that you guys don't happen to like.

It's not a weak deflection. It's an accurate statement of fact. You don't have a clue WTF you are talking about.
They didn't wait too,ing because of brown people or a golf tournament. I don't think they waited at all. There was a hurricane in the Atlantic between PR and Norfolk for most of the intervening period. Not prudent to sail into the middle of that. Plus, ships had to be staffed and loaded for the mission before leaving.
Let's look at that post #239.

(10-12-2017 04:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Since it takes several days to get there, it probably could have been sent as soon as the storm hit in all actuality...as soon as the storm was on the gulf side of Florida.
And further on this...now that it's there...with the capability to treat like 800 patients, it was reported yesterday that only 8 patients were being seen. Unacceptable.

Check out the storm track, here for one place:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria

Sine it never got into the Gulf, you I guess you would never have sent the ship, which was inport Norfolk/Newport News area. Maria tracked north and threatened the Outer Banks of NC on the 27th, so it would have made little sense to send it before then. The ship had fewer than 100 people onboard and had to staff up to 800 for the trip, plus supplies and fuel had to be loaded. It sailed on the 29th, arriving about Oct 3. All in all, it would have been fairly unreasonable to expect it to go before it did.

How many relief efforts have you ever taken part in or planned? I'm guessing zero.

My bad...I was remembering Irma on the storm path.

And you're right...let's stop all discussion of anything on this board if you haven't directly participated in it.

No more comments on congress, the presidency. This place should be fun. 03-drunk
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2017 10:58 AM by Redwingtom.)
10-13-2017 10:56 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #265
RE: Puerto Rico
(10-13-2017 10:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  My bad...I was remembering Irma on the storm path.
And you're right...let's stop all discussion of anything on this board if you haven't directly participated in it.
No more comments on congress, the presidency. This place should be fun. 03-drunk

Comments are fine regarding things where you know enough to have an informed opinion. You've clearly demonstrated that you don't with regard to the instant subject.

Want to disprove that? The answer the questions I've been asking.

You say the response has been bad. OK, what would a good response have been? And sailing a partially-crewed hospital ship into the face of an oncoming hurricane would not have been a good plan.

Exactly WTF should have been done that wasn't? And when and how? And with what resources?
10-13-2017 11:18 AM
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B_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #266
RE: Puerto Rico
(10-13-2017 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-13-2017 10:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  My bad...I was remembering Irma on the storm path.
And you're right...let's stop all discussion of anything on this board if you haven't directly participated in it.
No more comments on congress, the presidency. This place should be fun. 03-drunk

Comments are fine regarding things where you know enough to have an informed opinion. You've clearly demonstrated that you don't with regard to the instant subject.

Want to disprove that? The answer the questions I've been asking.

You say the response has been bad. OK, what would a good response have been? And sailing a partially-crewed hospital ship into the face of an oncoming hurricane would not have been a good plan.

Exactly WTF should have been done that wasn't? And when and how? And with what resources?

My favorite part of this is we all know damn well that he can't answer this question. It's all about getting hysterical for anything and everything hoping something sticks. Nevermind the facts.
10-13-2017 11:22 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #267
RE: Puerto Rico
(09-28-2017 10:38 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(09-28-2017 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Perhaps you can bump any post in this thread where anyone is blaming trump alone for anything in PR?

I mean, it starts right here in the first post. From you.


Redwingtom Wrote:It's hard to know since trump seems more consumed with the NFL

Redwingtom Wrote:Hopefully we're actually doing all we can...and it just appears that we aren't.

swagsurfer11 Wrote:This is going to be worse than Katrina.

Redwingtom Wrote:What I read was not that it would not get there because of issues in PR itself, but rather issues in DC. To me, that's a problem.

Redwingtom Wrote:So, he's basically choosing business over Americans.

I can go on, but the point has been made. Numerous swipes at the President and his administration. Trying to deflect that you are not referring the the President and his administration will righfully be met with guffaws.

Sorry, but the left has received a righteous call-out on their unfair, unfounded criticisms of the President and his administration's handling of Puerto Rico.

Like I said. Worse than Katrina.
08-29-2018 05:56 PM
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Post: #268
RE: Puerto Rico
(08-29-2018 05:56 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Like I said. Worse than Katrina.

Because the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico was even more poorly prepared to respond to a hurricane than were the State of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans.

You seem to have a gross misconception about how natural disasters are handled in our system. The federal government has next to no role in responding. FEMA is a management agency, not a response agency. The state/commonwealth and local governments respond, they send the bills to FEMA, and FEMA reimburses them. Now if there is some indication that FEMA has failed to pay bills on a timely basis, and that caused people to die, then there may be some basis for holding the federales responsible. But I've seen no evidence to that effect. Have you?

The biggest problem seems to have been restoration of power. Power plants must be repaired or replaced and transmission and distribution systems must be rebuilt. The latter requires wire, poles, pins, and bucket trucks. There is no federal agency with wire, poles, pins, and bucket trucks in sufficient amounts to have any material impact on the restoration of power.

The Navy sent a couple of ships. Back in my Navy days, we had a Caribbean Amphibious Response Group (CARG) that was on standby 24/7/365 to respond to military or other crises. We planned and practiced responding to hurricanes and other emergencies as a regular part of training for our mission. But the Navy is a lot smaller today, and there are not enough ships to maintain a CARG any more. This by the way is analogous to the problem in Benghazi. In my day we would have had an amphib with a company of Marines standing offshore the entire time the ambassador was there, just in case something like what happened took place. Of course, that was a strong deterrent against anything like that taking place. But we don't have enough amphibs to do that today. At the time of the incident, the two closest were one in Bab el Mandeb and one west of Gibraltar, neither close enough to have any impact for days.

Does relying almost exclusively on state and local governments mean that responses are very uneven? Absolutely. Texas responded to Rita a lot better than Louisiana responded to Katrina. The solution in my opinion is to create some organization with people, resources, and responsibility to respond to emergencies. My idea is that it should be the primary mission of the national guard, and federal support of the guard should pay for equipment and training to support this mission. That would be a step toward solving the problem. Blaming Trump for Puerto Rico, or Bush for Katrina, misses the point entirely.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2018 07:21 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
08-29-2018 06:11 PM
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Post: #269
RE: Puerto Rico
(08-29-2018 06:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-29-2018 05:56 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Like I said. Worse than Katrina.

Because the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico was even more poorly prepared to respond to a hurricane than were the State of Louisiana and the City of New Orleans.

You seem to have a gross misconception about how natural disasters are handled in our system. The federal government has next to no role in responding. FEMA is a management agency, not a response agency. The state/commonwealth and local governments respond, they send the bills to FEMA, and FEMA reimburses them. Now if there is some indication that FEMA has failed to pay bills on a timely basis, and that caused people to die, then there may be some basis for holding the federales responsible. But I've seen no evidence to that effect. Have you?

The biggest problem seems to have been restoration of power. Power plants must be repaired or replaced and transmission and distribution systems must be rebuilt. The latter requires wire, poles, pins, and bucket trucks. There is no federal agency with wire, poles, pins, and bucket trucks in sufficient amounts to have any material impact on the restoration of power.

The Navy sent a couple of ships. Back in my Navy days, we had a Caribbean Amphibious Response Group (CARG) that was on standby 24/7/365 to respond to military or other crises. We planned and practiced responding to hurricanes and other emergencies as a regular part of training for our mission. But the Navy is a lot smaller today, and there are not enough ships to maintain a CARG any more. This by the way is analogous to the problem in Benghazi. In my day we would have had an amphib with a company of Marines standing offshore the entire time the ambassador was there, just in case something like what happened took place. Of course, that was a strong deterrent against anything like that taking place. But we don't have enough amphibs to do that today. At the time of the incident, the two closest were one in Bab el Mandeb and one west of Gibraltar, neither close enough to have any impact.

Does relying almost exclusively on state and local governments mean that responses are very uneven? Absolutely. Texas responded to Rita a lot better than Louisiana responded to Katrina. The solution in my opinion is to create some organization with people, resources, and responsibility to respond to emergencies. My idea is that it should be the primary mission of the national guard, and federal support of the guard should pay for equipment and training to support this mission. That would be a step toward solving the problem. Blaming Trump for Puerto Rico, or Bush for Katrina, misses the point entirely.

And Florida had a bigger storm with more devastation from winds than Katrina. Same Brownie, same president. Everything went pretty well. Because Jeb Bush was governor, not Blanco & Nagin in LA or the incompetent locals in Puerto Rico.

And Houston was quickly up and running with more widespread flooding than NO.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2018 06:58 PM by bullet.)
08-29-2018 06:57 PM
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Post: #270
RE: Puerto Rico
Nah! It's all Trumps fault. Logic has no place here.
08-29-2018 07:19 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #271
RE: Puerto Rico
This guy. What an utter embarrassment. SMH




Mortality in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria
09-13-2018 08:20 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #272
RE: Puerto Rico
Nevermind. Not worse than Katrina. 3000 people died of natural causes not the hurricane.
09-13-2018 08:33 AM
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Post: #273
RE: Puerto Rico
TDS
09-13-2018 08:39 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #274
RE: Puerto Rico
(09-13-2018 08:39 AM)VA49er Wrote:  TDS

Just delete your account. You've lost all powers of objectivity.

The only one deranged here is a man who rejects reality. The sad part is that most PR's don't even hold trump singularly responsible. They hold all levels of government accountable for the failures that helped contribute to thousands of perhaps needless deaths of AMERICANS!
09-13-2018 09:29 AM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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RE: Puerto Rico
The Progs are already having a hard time getting over the "effects" of Hurricane Donald.
09-13-2018 09:31 AM
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BobcatEngineer Offline
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Post: #276
RE: Puerto Rico
(09-13-2018 08:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This guy. What an utter embarrassment. SMH




Mortality in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria

Awww... poor Donnie.

He's obviously the victim in this scenario.
09-13-2018 10:33 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #277
RE: Puerto Rico
(09-13-2018 08:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This guy. What an utter embarrassment. SMH




Mortality in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria

Its kind of a BS number. 64 people died in the actual storm and aftermath. Then 6 months later---a study ESTIMATES "through scientific means" 2975 casualties. My guess is the truth lies somewhere in between. I dont doubt more than 64 died---but the 3000 casualties is equally overstated. There is no real way to know the number---so disputing the "estimate" is perfectly reasonable. But, for those folks who have lost thier minds over Trump---its pretty funny to watch them become triggered over very reasonable common sense statements.


The government's initial number was for those killed directly by the hurricane, crushed by collapsing buildings, drowned or hit by flying debris.

But the new report also counted those who died in the six months following the storm as a result of poor healthcare provision and a lack of electricity and clean water. Repeated power cuts also led to an increased number of deaths from diabetes and sepsis.

In truth, the new official number is still an estimate - based on mortality data and taking into account historical data on migration patterns.

But the official recognition will allow the island to move on and focus fully on rebuilding its infrastructure and extracting the tens of billions of dollars needed from Congress to give the three million inhabitants of this already bankrupt territory something of a future.



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45338080
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2018 11:04 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-13-2018 10:59 AM
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RE: Puerto Rico
(09-13-2018 10:59 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-13-2018 08:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This guy. What an utter embarrassment. SMH




Mortality in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria

Its kind of a BS number. 64 people died in the actual storm and aftermath. Then 6 months later---a study ESTIMATES "through scientific means" 2975 casualties. My guess is the truth lies somewhere in between. I dont doubt more than 64 died---but the 3000 casualties is equally overstated. There is no real way to know the number---so disputing the "estimate" is perfectly reasonable. But, for those folks who have lost thier minds over Trump---its pretty funny to watch them become triggered over very reasonable common sense statements.


The government's initial number was for those killed directly by the hurricane, crushed by collapsing buildings, drowned or hit by flying debris.

But the new report also counted those who died in the six months following the storm as a result of poor healthcare provision and a lack of electricity and clean water. Repeated power cuts also led to an increased number of deaths from diabetes and sepsis.

In truth, the new official number is still an estimate - based on mortality data and taking into account historical data on migration patterns.

But the official recognition will allow the island to move on and focus fully on rebuilding its infrastructure and extracting the tens of billions of dollars needed from Congress to give the three million inhabitants of this already bankrupt territory something of a future.



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45338080

The exact number is not the issue with these tweets. It's the deranged mind that makes this all about himself by blaming a political party.
09-13-2018 12:23 PM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #279
RE: Puerto Rico
(09-13-2018 10:33 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  
(09-13-2018 08:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This guy. What an utter embarrassment. SMH




Mortality in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria

Awww... poor Donnie.

He's obviously the victim in this scenario.

You libs will never learn, nothing is Trump’s fault. He is only responsible for the good stuff.
09-13-2018 01:29 PM
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Post: #280
RE: Puerto Rico
Here's a simple question for you leftists:

What more should the Trump Administration have done in Puerto Rico? Be specific.
09-13-2018 01:36 PM
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