Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
WKUYG Away
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,148
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 1647
I Root For: WKU
Location:
Post: #101
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:32 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:22 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  After reading the indictment I have a feeling this ends more like the following than "everyone is paying 100k"...

Why no other shoe companies are in this, the FBI had a guy caught dead to right committing federal crimes. No not crimes like in this indictment. So the FBI agent working his case goes..."what can you help me with" or the other way around. There's a reason no head coaches are listed. For this to work you need asst coaches looking to get paid bigtime money and moving up to head coaching jobs. So we have a executive of a shoe company looking at federal time for crime he got caught doing.

So he has the contacts and sets all of this in motion. Are the asst coaches already cheating? Probably, but maybe not at this level. So if this was going on, at the level said in the indictment it didn't just start in 2015 (when this investigation started). This executive had to be doing this before (unless this was a get out of jail sting) if so there had to other working higher up in Adidas to set you the accounts to draw these payments from. Yet no one else at Adidas is charged.

So again this starts in 2015 and if you know the asst coaches are on the take at 100k a pop then the head coach most likely knows. So why not go after the big dog instead of the asst? That tells me more than a few asst coaches getting caught up in this.

What if this isn't as common as most of us think? What if this guy just picked the asst coaches he has a relation ship with. a "let me help you out" maybe before it was cheating on a smaller scale but not I need something that is going to get people charged with federal crimes...

This thing went to the grand jury right after the meetings with the UofL coach. Why aren't they indited like the other 4 doing the same thing? I'm sure at least one person on here knows something about how the FBI works....

you know these agents are hungry to move up and the quickest way to do that. A national headline making case. I think this ends up being more of a kind of set up sting against a few asst coaches being greedy looking to move up. Than a system wide problem. At least on the scale we are seeing in this case.

It's funny a kid UofL was not recruiting was all of a sudden offered to them right before this undercover case ends. UofL just so happens to be a blueblood school that grabs national headlines. Since this thing dropped it's stange the one school getting plastered on headlines....

was not indited for breaking federal laws. Yet they are listed in the indictment in a way a 6 year old could find out who it was.

Maybe I'm wrong but knowing a little bit on some of the things I said..I would be more surprised if this is as wide, at least anything close to this scale. As most of you think. If it was one head coach would be charged

Some of what you're describing sounds a lot like entrapment. It's still early there could be more indictments. They may want to push on some that they have strong evidence on to turn evidence themselves and get bigger fish. We'll see.

The law/government looks at it like sport fans do cheating...

it's only entrapment if you get caught. Like if you record all the calls instead of just the ones you want to be heard.
09-27-2017 11:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mturn017 Offline
ODU Homer
*

Posts: 16,740
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1592
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Roanoke, VA
Post: #102
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:46 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:32 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:22 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  After reading the indictment I have a feeling this ends more like the following than "everyone is paying 100k"...

Why no other shoe companies are in this, the FBI had a guy caught dead to right committing federal crimes. No not crimes like in this indictment. So the FBI agent working his case goes..."what can you help me with" or the other way around. There's a reason no head coaches are listed. For this to work you need asst coaches looking to get paid bigtime money and moving up to head coaching jobs. So we have a executive of a shoe company looking at federal time for crime he got caught doing.

So he has the contacts and sets all of this in motion. Are the asst coaches already cheating? Probably, but maybe not at this level. So if this was going on, at the level said in the indictment it didn't just start in 2015 (when this investigation started). This executive had to be doing this before (unless this was a get out of jail sting) if so there had to other working higher up in Adidas to set you the accounts to draw these payments from. Yet no one else at Adidas is charged.

So again this starts in 2015 and if you know the asst coaches are on the take at 100k a pop then the head coach most likely knows. So why not go after the big dog instead of the asst? That tells me more than a few asst coaches getting caught up in this.

What if this isn't as common as most of us think? What if this guy just picked the asst coaches he has a relation ship with. a "let me help you out" maybe before it was cheating on a smaller scale but not I need something that is going to get people charged with federal crimes...

This thing went to the grand jury right after the meetings with the UofL coach. Why aren't they indited like the other 4 doing the same thing? I'm sure at least one person on here knows something about how the FBI works....

you know these agents are hungry to move up and the quickest way to do that. A national headline making case. I think this ends up being more of a kind of set up sting against a few asst coaches being greedy looking to move up. Than a system wide problem. At least on the scale we are seeing in this case.

It's funny a kid UofL was not recruiting was all of a sudden offered to them right before this undercover case ends. UofL just so happens to be a blueblood school that grabs national headlines. Since this thing dropped it's stange the one school getting plastered on headlines....

was not indited for breaking federal laws. Yet they are listed in the indictment in a way a 6 year old could find out who it was.

Maybe I'm wrong but knowing a little bit on some of the things I said..I would be more surprised if this is as wide, at least anything close to this scale. As most of you think. If it was one head coach would be charged

Some of what you're describing sounds a lot like entrapment. It's still early there could be more indictments. They may want to push on some that they have strong evidence on to turn evidence themselves and get bigger fish. We'll see.

The law/government looks at it like sport fans do cheating...

it's only entrapment if you get caught. Like if you record all the calls instead of just the ones you want to be heard.

Maybe, I'm leaning towards they were already cheating and got caught.
09-27-2017 11:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #103
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:44 AM)FIUFan Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 10:59 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 10:57 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 10:47 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  I doubt anyone at Adidas would be paying kids to go to a C-USA school.
You would be surprised. There is a report that up to 50 teams could be impacted.
Like I asked earlier, how many schools (basketball in particular obviously) used Adidas. Every school that did needs to come under a microscope (and unfortunately the families of the kids that did take the money do to...)

You're right; the FBI has so little on its plate that it needs to send agents to investigate every college and university that has a contract with Adidas. 03-drunk

This is a fair point. They are down a bunch of agents from where they should be. I've worked with the Bureau for the past 11 years. In fact, I was set to become one and was near the end of the process but got caught up in the hiring freeze that lasted over two years. When they finally lifted it they pulled me out because I was too close to my 37th b-day. But even when they did lift it they still haven't been putting many classes through Quantico. They are way down on the number of agents.
09-27-2017 11:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
usm99 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,027
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 240
I Root For: Southern Miss
Location:
Post: #104
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
Makes you wonder about that new Adidas contract Louisville just signed this summer......10 years and $160 mil. Granted it was an ath dept wide contract but it still could be in the mix


http://www.courier-journal.com/story/spo...600363001/
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 01:05 PM by usm99.)
09-27-2017 11:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WKUYG Away
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,148
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 1647
I Root For: WKU
Location:
Post: #105
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:42 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Couple of things. First, there are more targets of the investigation than have been revealed at this point. There are more arrests to come - most likely - we just don't know who they are yet. They could indeed be head coaches. We know that what - five people have been arrested - and there are at least five more who have been unnamed at this time that are targets of the investigation.

Second, what's in indictment is but a fraction of the information and evidence the FBI currently has.

Third, as mentioned previously as these guys work plea deals and talk they are surely going to give up others which is going to allow the investigation to expand in scope.

In short, the investigation is far from over and there is a lot that hasn't been made public about this yet.


One thing you can bet the home on....

if a head coach or well known coach was involved. You would have seen it in that indictment. One other thing...you only make the big splash once (unless you have bigger fish to land) so anything not listed will be small time.

If the FBI was expecting these coaches to roll over on their boss. They would have been given the same offer the guy who got this started had.

They would have been called into a FBI office or better yet in the family livingroom and the following would have been said. "we have you on tape" "We have you breaking federal laws" "You are looking at federal time, not probation". "Do you want to talk to your atty". "You have till the next day to accept our offer to help us"

They have nothing on a head coach...at least nothing to do with this indictment
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 11:53 AM by WKUYG.)
09-27-2017 11:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WKUYG Away
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,148
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 1647
I Root For: WKU
Location:
Post: #106
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:51 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:46 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:32 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:22 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  After reading the indictment I have a feeling this ends more like the following than "everyone is paying 100k"...

Why no other shoe companies are in this, the FBI had a guy caught dead to right committing federal crimes. No not crimes like in this indictment. So the FBI agent working his case goes..."what can you help me with" or the other way around. There's a reason no head coaches are listed. For this to work you need asst coaches looking to get paid bigtime money and moving up to head coaching jobs. So we have a executive of a shoe company looking at federal time for crime he got caught doing.

So he has the contacts and sets all of this in motion. Are the asst coaches already cheating? Probably, but maybe not at this level. So if this was going on, at the level said in the indictment it didn't just start in 2015 (when this investigation started). This executive had to be doing this before (unless this was a get out of jail sting) if so there had to other working higher up in Adidas to set you the accounts to draw these payments from. Yet no one else at Adidas is charged.

So again this starts in 2015 and if you know the asst coaches are on the take at 100k a pop then the head coach most likely knows. So why not go after the big dog instead of the asst? That tells me more than a few asst coaches getting caught up in this.

What if this isn't as common as most of us think? What if this guy just picked the asst coaches he has a relation ship with. a "let me help you out" maybe before it was cheating on a smaller scale but not I need something that is going to get people charged with federal crimes...

This thing went to the grand jury right after the meetings with the UofL coach. Why aren't they indited like the other 4 doing the same thing? I'm sure at least one person on here knows something about how the FBI works....

you know these agents are hungry to move up and the quickest way to do that. A national headline making case. I think this ends up being more of a kind of set up sting against a few asst coaches being greedy looking to move up. Than a system wide problem. At least on the scale we are seeing in this case.

It's funny a kid UofL was not recruiting was all of a sudden offered to them right before this undercover case ends. UofL just so happens to be a blueblood school that grabs national headlines. Since this thing dropped it's stange the one school getting plastered on headlines....

was not indited for breaking federal laws. Yet they are listed in the indictment in a way a 6 year old could find out who it was.

Maybe I'm wrong but knowing a little bit on some of the things I said..I would be more surprised if this is as wide, at least anything close to this scale. As most of you think. If it was one head coach would be charged

Some of what you're describing sounds a lot like entrapment. It's still early there could be more indictments. They may want to push on some that they have strong evidence on to turn evidence themselves and get bigger fish. We'll see.

The law/government looks at it like sport fans do cheating...

it's only entrapment if you get caught. Like if you record all the calls instead of just the ones you want to be heard.

Maybe, I'm leaning towards they were already cheating and got caught.

They all cheat all of our schools cheat. I just don't think it's system wide at this level. With all shoe companies paying 100k and up for all of these kids like what happen in this indictment.

Maybe so but I'm being honest when I say it would shock me more if that is happening. More so that this being a sting type setup that happens all the time.
09-27-2017 11:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #107
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:53 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:42 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Couple of things. First, there are more targets of the investigation than have been revealed at this point. There are more arrests to come - most likely - we just don't know who they are yet. They could indeed be head coaches. We know that what - five people have been arrested - and there are at least five more who have been unnamed at this time that are targets of the investigation.

Second, what's in indictment is but a fraction of the information and evidence the FBI currently has.

Third, as mentioned previously as these guys work plea deals and talk they are surely going to give up others which is going to allow the investigation to expand in scope.

In short, the investigation is far from over and there is a lot that hasn't been made public about this yet.


One thing you can bet the home on....

if a head coach or well known coach was involved. You would have seen it in that indictment. One other thing...you only make the big splash once (unless you have bigger fish to land) so anything not listed will be small time.

If the FBI was expecting these coaches to roll over on their boss. They would have been given the same offer the guy who got this started had.

They would have been called into a FBI office or better yet in the family livingroom and the following would have been said. "we have you on tape" "We have you breaking federal laws" "You are looking at federal time, not probation". "Do you want to talk to your atty". "You have till the next day to accept our offer to help us"

They have nothing on a head coach...at least nothing to do with this indictment

Possibly. That is certainly one way to run it but not the only way. This may end up being the end of it. But I have sense they have something else planned. Just a hunch based on the fact that they don't need witnesses as much given the hard evidence. If they needed witnesses to testify then there is a higher chance they would have done what you suggest. I primarily deal with terrorism and how you described is almost always how those go, but the fraud, bribery, white collar crimes are done differently and can actually be conducted in a lot of different ways.
09-27-2017 11:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
THUNDERStruck73 Offline
Complete Jackass
*

Posts: 13,166
Joined: Feb 2012
Reputation: 981
I Root For: Herd, Our Lady, & Heels
Location: Huntington, WV
Post: #108
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
It's only entrapment if the party is enticed into doing something that they ordinarily wouldn't do.
09-27-2017 12:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
HerdZoned Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 19,105
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation: 348
I Root For: The Herd
Location: South Charleston

Folding@NCAAbbsCrappiesCrappiesCrappies
Post: #109
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:53 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:42 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Couple of things. First, there are more targets of the investigation than have been revealed at this point. There are more arrests to come - most likely - we just don't know who they are yet. They could indeed be head coaches. We know that what - five people have been arrested - and there are at least five more who have been unnamed at this time that are targets of the investigation.

Second, what's in indictment is but a fraction of the information and evidence the FBI currently has.

Third, as mentioned previously as these guys work plea deals and talk they are surely going to give up others which is going to allow the investigation to expand in scope.

In short, the investigation is far from over and there is a lot that hasn't been made public about this yet.


One thing you can bet the home on....

if a head coach or well known coach was involved. You would have seen it in that indictment. One other thing...you only make the big splash once (unless you have bigger fish to land) so anything not listed will be small time.

If the FBI was expecting these coaches to roll over on their boss. They would have been given the same offer the guy who got this started had.

They would have been called into a FBI office or better yet in the family livingroom and the following would have been said. "we have you on tape" "We have you breaking federal laws" "You are looking at federal time, not probation". "Do you want to talk to your atty". "You have till the next day to accept our offer to help us"

They have nothing on a head coach...at least nothing to do with this indictment

Why would you start with a splash arrest. That would just be dumb. Look at it on how the Mob was eventually taken down. You arrest the small fries first and let them turn on each other and finally you get the big fish you want.

Any HC and AD associated in this indictment should lose their jobs before this weekend. If that happens then I think you start seeing names being named you may have never thought of.
09-27-2017 12:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cotton1991 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,665
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 301
I Root For: Memphis
Location: MasonCity North Iowa
Post: #110
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 11:53 AM)usm99 Wrote:  Makes you wonder about that new Adidas contract Louisville just signed this summer......10 years and $160 mil. Granted it was an ath dept wide contract it still could be in the mix


http://www.courier-journal.com/story/spo...600363001/

Jurich's daughter was hired by Adidas about the same time the contract was signed.

Gee, and I always thought the real money was in politics, lol
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 12:29 PM by cotton1991.)
09-27-2017 12:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
WKUYG Away
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 14,148
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 1647
I Root For: WKU
Location:
Post: #111
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 12:16 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:53 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 11:42 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Couple of things. First, there are more targets of the investigation than have been revealed at this point. There are more arrests to come - most likely - we just don't know who they are yet. They could indeed be head coaches. We know that what - five people have been arrested - and there are at least five more who have been unnamed at this time that are targets of the investigation.

Second, what's in indictment is but a fraction of the information and evidence the FBI currently has.

Third, as mentioned previously as these guys work plea deals and talk they are surely going to give up others which is going to allow the investigation to expand in scope.

In short, the investigation is far from over and there is a lot that hasn't been made public about this yet.


One thing you can bet the home on....

if a head coach or well known coach was involved. You would have seen it in that indictment. One other thing...you only make the big splash once (unless you have bigger fish to land) so anything not listed will be small time.

If the FBI was expecting these coaches to roll over on their boss. They would have been given the same offer the guy who got this started had.

They would have been called into a FBI office or better yet in the family livingroom and the following would have been said. "we have you on tape" "We have you breaking federal laws" "You are looking at federal time, not probation". "Do you want to talk to your atty". "You have till the next day to accept our offer to help us"

They have nothing on a head coach...at least nothing to do with this indictment

Why would you start with a splash arrest. That would just be dumb. Look at it on how the Mob was eventually taken down. You arrest the small fries first and let them turn on each other and finally you get the big fish you want.

Any HC and AD associated in this indictment should lose their jobs before this weekend. If that happens then I think you start seeing names being named you may have never thought of.

You start with the splash because that's what you got....after a investigation that went on since 2015

if any head coach was doing this you get those asst coaches to wear a wire . From there you get wire taps on the school/coaches phones.

Once it hits you might have a asst throwing his head coach under the bus but wont have them on a wire saying something incriminating.

If the feds used a lower ranking mob member you can bet it was before they actually announced their indictment. If a boss knew you just been arrested and you all of sudden start asking..."do you remember when we paid(or killed) so and so" . Do you really think they are going to say anything?

I could be 100% wrong I just don't think so.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 12:33 PM by WKUYG.)
09-27-2017 12:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #112
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
There is a difference here you are not recognizing. If this were the mob or a cartel, for example, anyone caught up underneath the #1 would know that 1) their number one job was to protect the boss even if you get caught; 2) being a rat is perhaps worse than death and 3) if you talk you will be killed in a very unpleasant manner and so might your family.

The coaches are just weasels and cowards. As someone mentioned earlier they will sing like canaries now that their attorney will have the opportunity to tell them exactly the extent of prison time and fines that they face. And there is no risk to them or their family for outing others above them. The Bureau may not have wanted to do a wire on the assistants in fear that they may tip off others at the university - knowing at that point that they were already screwed. Again, perhaps this is all they got, but I won't be surprised if we see more to come.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 12:39 PM by ThreeifbyLightning.)
09-27-2017 12:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CurveItAround Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 620
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 65
I Root For: Mean Green
Location:
Post: #113
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
Still don't exactly get how any of this is illegal. Company pays a player (or advisor to influence player). Player agrees to work for the company later when out of college. ???

NCAA violation? Definitely. Morally wrong? Ok, sure.

If the player or advisor does not report the income, then that is between them and the IRS, but not the company that made the payment. I don't think I have read where the companies are using illegally acquired funds to pay the players so don't see where money laundering would be involved. There does not appear to be a motive to defraud people of their money in some sort of scheme, so not sure how fraud is involved.

What am I missing? There has to be something obvious I am just overlooking that makes this illegal.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2017 12:52 PM by CurveItAround.)
09-27-2017 12:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #114
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 12:52 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  Still don't exactly get how any of this is illegal. Company pays a player (or advisor to influence player). Player agrees to work for the company later when out of college. ???

NCAA violation? Definitely. Morally wrong? Ok, sure.

If the player or advisor does not report the income, then that is between them and the IRS, but not the company that made the payment. I don't think I have read where the companies are using illegally acquired funds to pay the players so don't see where money laundering would be involved. There does not appear to be a motive to defraud people of their money in some sort of scheme, so not sure how fraud is involved.

What am I missing? There has to be something obvious I am just overlooking that makes this illegal.

See post #50. I provided a basic snapshot there.
09-27-2017 12:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
KAjunRaider Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 9,199
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 242
I Root For: U.M.T.
Location: Atop Tiger Hill, TN
Post: #115
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 12:38 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  There is a difference here you are not recognizing. If this were the mob or a cartel, for example, anyone caught up underneath the #1 would know that 1) their number one job was to protect the boss even if you get caught; 2) being a rat is perhaps worse than death and 3) if you talk you will be killed in a very unpleasant manner and so might your family.

The coaches are just weasels and cowards. As someone mentioned earlier they will sing like canaries now that their attorney will have the opportunity to tell them exactly the extent of prison time and fines that they face. And there is no risk to them or their family for outing others above them. The Bureau may not have wanted to do a wire on the assistants in fear that they may tip off others at the university - knowing at that point that they were already screwed. Again, perhaps this is all they got, but I won't be surprised if we see more to come.

And the mob guys have no problem doing a bit of jail time. These coaches don't want to spend a day in prison.
09-27-2017 12:57 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #116
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 12:52 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  Still don't exactly get how any of this is illegal. Company pays a player (or advisor to influence player). Player agrees to work for the company later when out of college. ???

NCAA violation? Definitely. Morally wrong? Ok, sure.

If the player or advisor does not report the income, then that is between them and the IRS, but not the company that made the payment. I don't think I have read where the companies are using illegally acquired funds to pay the players so don't see where money laundering would be involved. There does not appear to be a motive to defraud people of their money in some sort of scheme, so not sure how fraud is involved.

What am I missing? There has to be something obvious I am just overlooking that makes this illegal.

Simplified version...

If the company (Adidas in this case) gives money to a kid to sign with their brand that is not illegal. It would be written up as a contract and the kid provides the service of acting on behalf of Adidas. That said, that obviously makes them ineligible in the eyes of the NCAA. To usurp (or to get around this), Adidas funnels the cash to the asst coaches who in turn delivers it to the players or the mom/dad in exchange for whatever they promised to do in secret (such as promote their product once they turn pro). That is a quintessential example of fraud that violates a number of areas of Title 18. The amount of money also matters too. A deal done this way over $5K violates a very specific code in Title 18. I will look it up in just a minute.
09-27-2017 01:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #117
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
18 U.S. Code § 666 - Theft or bribery concerning programs receiving Federal funds

(a) Whoever, if the circumstance described in subsection (b) of this section exists—
(1) being an agent of an organization, or of a State, local, or Indian tribal government, or any agency thereof—
(A) embezzles, steals, obtains by fraud, or otherwise without authority knowingly converts to the use of any person other than the rightful owner or intentionally misapplies, property that—
(i) is valued at $5,000 or more, and
(ii) is owned by, or is under the care, custody, or control of such organization, government, or agency; or
(B) corruptly solicits or demands for the benefit of any person, or accepts or agrees to accept, anything of value from any person, intending to be influenced or rewarded in connection with any business, transaction, or series of transactions of such organization, government, or agency involving any thing of value of $5,000 or more; or
(2) corruptly gives, offers, or agrees to give anything of value to any person, with intent to influence or reward an agent of an organization or of a State, local or Indian tribal government, or any agency thereof, in connection with any business, transaction, or series of transactions of such organization, government, or agency involving anything of value of $5,000 or more;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
(b) The circumstance referred to in subsection (a) of this section is that the organization, government, or agency receives, in any one year period, benefits in excess of $10,000 under a Federal program involving a grant, contract, subsidy, loan, guarantee, insurance, or other form of Federal assistance.
© This section does not apply to bona fide salary, wages, fees, or other compensation paid, or expenses paid or reimbursed, in the usual course of business.
(d) As used in this section—
(1) the term “agent” means a person authorized to act on behalf of another person or a government and, in the case of an organization or government, includes a servant or employee, and a partner, director, officer, manager, and representative;
(2) the term “government agency” means a subdivision of the executive, legislative, judicial, or other branch of government, including a department, independent establishment, commission, administration, authority, board, and bureau, and a corporation or other legal entity established, and subject to control, by a government or governments for the execution of a governmental or intergovernmental program;
(3) the term “local” means of or pertaining to a political subdivision within a State;
(4) the term “State” includes a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States; and
(5) the term “in any one-year period” means a continuous period that commences no earlier than twelve months before the commission of the offense or that ends no later than twelve months after the commission of the offense. Such period may include time both before and after the commission of the offense.
09-27-2017 01:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #118
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
Hey wkcc fans. Will you guys now hire Pitino in a year or two after Stansbury leaves (assuming he doesn't get a show cause)?

03-nutkick COGS

Sorry, couldn't resist.
09-27-2017 01:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CurveItAround Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 620
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 65
I Root For: Mean Green
Location:
Post: #119
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 01:18 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 12:52 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  Still don't exactly get how any of this is illegal. Company pays a player (or advisor to influence player). Player agrees to work for the company later when out of college. ???

NCAA violation? Definitely. Morally wrong? Ok, sure.

If the player or advisor does not report the income, then that is between them and the IRS, but not the company that made the payment. I don't think I have read where the companies are using illegally acquired funds to pay the players so don't see where money laundering would be involved. There does not appear to be a motive to defraud people of their money in some sort of scheme, so not sure how fraud is involved.

What am I missing? There has to be something obvious I am just overlooking that makes this illegal.

Simplified version...

If the company (Adidas in this case) gives money to a kid to sign with their brand that is not illegal. It would be written up as a contract and the kid provides the service of acting on behalf of Adidas. That said, that obviously makes them ineligible in the eyes of the NCAA. To usurp (or to get around this), Adidas funnels the cash to the asst coaches who in turn delivers it to the players or the mom/dad in exchange for whatever they promised to do in secret (such as promote their product once they turn pro). That is a quintessential example of fraud that violates a number of areas of Title 18. The amount of money also matters too. A deal done this way over $5K violates a very specific code in Title 18. I will look it up in just a minute.
Hmmm. It seems there is precedent here. To me it seems more of an ethical issue rather than a legal one, but probably my lack of knowledge in these types of area.

Who is being defrauded here? The NCAA (a non government agency)? I guess I have always just thought of bribery in terms of public/government officials and thought of fraud in terms of if it did financial harm to the target of the fraud. I see this as just trying to get around a set of arbitrary rules that a non public organization invented in their minds to govern an athletic association.

So, if the NCAA did not have arbitrary rules that an athlete could not receive income from a clothing company or sign a contract with an agent, none of this would be 'illegal'?
09-27-2017 01:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ThreeifbyLightning Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,885
Joined: Dec 2009
Reputation: 370
I Root For: Univ of Middle Tennessee
Location:
Post: #120
RE: OT: College bball fraud & corruption arrest by FBI overnight
(09-27-2017 01:33 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 01:18 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  
(09-27-2017 12:52 PM)CurveItAround Wrote:  Still don't exactly get how any of this is illegal. Company pays a player (or advisor to influence player). Player agrees to work for the company later when out of college. ???

NCAA violation? Definitely. Morally wrong? Ok, sure.

If the player or advisor does not report the income, then that is between them and the IRS, but not the company that made the payment. I don't think I have read where the companies are using illegally acquired funds to pay the players so don't see where money laundering would be involved. There does not appear to be a motive to defraud people of their money in some sort of scheme, so not sure how fraud is involved.

What am I missing? There has to be something obvious I am just overlooking that makes this illegal.

Simplified version...

If the company (Adidas in this case) gives money to a kid to sign with their brand that is not illegal. It would be written up as a contract and the kid provides the service of acting on behalf of Adidas. That said, that obviously makes them ineligible in the eyes of the NCAA. To usurp (or to get around this), Adidas funnels the cash to the asst coaches who in turn delivers it to the players or the mom/dad in exchange for whatever they promised to do in secret (such as promote their product once they turn pro). That is a quintessential example of fraud that violates a number of areas of Title 18. The amount of money also matters too. A deal done this way over $5K violates a very specific code in Title 18. I will look it up in just a minute.
Hmmm. It seems there is precedent here. To me it seems more of an ethical issue rather than a legal one, but probably my lack of knowledge in these types of area.

Who is being defrauded here? The NCAA (a non government agency)? I guess I have always just thought of bribery in terms of public/government officials and thought of fraud in terms of if it did financial harm to the target of the fraud. I see this as just trying to get around a set of arbitrary rules that a non public organization invented in their minds to govern an athletic association.

So, if the NCAA did not have arbitrary rules that an athlete could not receive income from a clothing company or sign a contract with an agent, none of this would be 'illegal'?

It would still be illegal even absent the NCAA rules.

The FBI is stating that the universities are being defrauded. They have made clear the universities themselves are not under investigation so the US Attorney is taking the position that the employee (asst coaches) acted as agents of another entity to funnel money illicitly for a scratch on the back later on. In other words, the players are enticed with money to use the school for the purpose of achieving a future outcome that will benefit someone other than school (in this case Adidas).

An SI article makes a good point how the schools are just as culpable, because they lent a win at all cost culture which has merit I would think but clearly the USAO doesn't view it that way. Not sure that would be a very good defense for the coaches.
09-27-2017 01:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.