Trash football in a trash conference.

Let me be clear, this is not on the players.

(09-24-2017 12:34 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Trash football in a trash conference.

Let me be clear, this is not on the players.

The wisdom runs deep in this one

(09-23-2017 11:28 PM)mrbig Wrote:  https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/whi...ice-versa/

FYI ... This article is from Aug. 24 -- "Which College Football Teams Do The Most With The Least Talent? (And Vice Versa) -- and owl95 posted a thread about it the next day.

Reading between the lines from the absurdly drafted, no one really is happy with this, we are stuck here because of financial reasons... press release that Karlgaard and Bailiff put out on November 29th last year (link below)... it's bowl game or bust this season for Bailiff's job.

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...16aaa.html

Looking at the stands at lst night's game was just sad. There is simply no excuse for what Rice's leadership decided last year in keeping Bailiff. Our expectations are unacceptably low and it's a disgrace. The longer you tolerate poor performance, the more ingrained it becomes, and that's what we've done for years and years.

One of my favorite leaders in business was Chainsaw Al Dunlap. While his career ended on an ignominious note, he had some amazing successes leading up to that point. One of his best quotes was, "When there are problems, I don’t blame employees. I pick the right targets: management and the board of directors." In Rice Football's case, the blame lies with the Athletics Director (current and past) and the Board of Trustees. They don't have a winning vision. They don't have a winning fundraising strategy. They don't have a winning community relations strategy. They don't have anything positive when it comes to football! It's pathetic. Sadly, Rice fans have voted with their feet and their wallets and no longer support the program. This is the predictable result of years of horrible leadership from all involved.

Fire the President for not demanding Bailiff be fired last year instead of running the program in the ground.

(09-24-2017 02:00 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 12:34 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Trash football in a trash conference.

Let me be clear, this is not on the players.

.

The wisdom runs deep in this one

(09-24-2017 06:49 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Fire the President for not demanding Bailiff be fired last year instead of running the program in the ground.

I've long been in favor of banning Old Owl. His trolling just lowers the level of conversation here and is a distraction. What is taking so long moderators?

(09-24-2017 06:45 AM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  Reading between the lines from the absurdly drafted, no one really is happy with this, we are stuck here because of financial reasons... press release that Karlgaard and Bailiff put out on November 29th last year (link below)... it's bowl game or bust this season for Bailiff's job.

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...16aaa.html

Looking at the stands at lst night's game was just sad. There is simply no excuse for what Rice's leadership decided last year in keeping Bailiff. Our expectations are unacceptably low and it's a disgrace. The longer you tolerate poor performance, the more ingrained it becomes, and that's what we've done for years and years.

One of my favorite leaders in business was Chainsaw Al Dunlap. While his career ended on an ignominious note, he had some amazing successes leading up to that point. One of his best quotes was, "When there are problems, I don’t blame employees. I pick the right targets: management and the board of directors." In Rice Football's case, the blame lies with the Athletics Director (current and past) and the Board of Trustees. They don't have a winning vision. They don't have a winning fundraising strategy. They don't have a winning community relations strategy. They don't have anything positive when it comes to football! It's pathetic. Sadly, Rice fans have voted with their feet and their wallets and no longer support the program. This is the predictable result of years of horrible leadership from all involved.

One of the problems with this neglect is that, if the powers that be were to ever see the light and try to fix the situation, it would take a huge investment and a huge amount of time, more than it would have taken, say, ten years ago. On just one of many levels, how do you get the fans back after feeding them drivel for so long.

Not a perfect analogy but .... in his celebrated Seven Habits book, Stephen Covey talks about trust. He tells the story of a restaurant with incredible chowder. At lunch, there were long lines to get in to eat the food. Then some new owners took over. They figured they could increase their profits by watering down the chowder. And it worked ... for a while. But once the word got around, people quit going to the restaurant. The restaurant realized its mistake and returned to the old recipe. But it was too little too late. Trust had been broken. If I recall correctly, Covey said that the restaurant never recovered.

We have been neglected far too long. This board may not be the whole of Rice Nation, but its members probably constitute the most passionate part of Rice Nation, at least as far as athletics are concerned. It seems insane/incompetent to ignore the perspective of such a critical group of stakeholders (not to mention ignoring the perspectives of any group of stakeholders.) There are so many competing demands on people's time and money these days that one wonders why people would devote either time or money to an organization that routinely ignores them.

This might sound extreme to some, but to those of us with spec ops backgrounds, it is very realistic - there are few strategies that the admin/AD could have chosen to kill Rice football than the one they have pursued.

(09-23-2017 11:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(09-23-2017 11:13 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Army? You've got to be kidding. Army will blow us out worse than they did last year.

Army lost to Tulane today. So maybe there is a chance? Or maybe Tulane's coaching change is leading to improvement...

Willie Fritz is an excellent coach and has Tulane headed in the right direction. They should have beaten Navy earlier this year and I think they will beat UH when we go there in November. I'd take Fritz over Applewhite in a heart beat. BTW, could I interest you guys in Applewhite if we promise to pay half his salary?

(09-24-2017 07:35 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 06:45 AM)Volente Beach Owl Wrote:  Reading between the lines from the absurdly drafted, no one really is happy with this, we are stuck here because of financial reasons... press release that Karlgaard and Bailiff put out on November 29th last year (link below)... it's bowl game or bust this season for Bailiff's job.

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/...16aaa.html

Looking at the stands at lst night's game was just sad. There is simply no excuse for what Rice's leadership decided last year in keeping Bailiff. Our expectations are unacceptably low and it's a disgrace. The longer you tolerate poor performance, the more ingrained it becomes, and that's what we've done for years and years.

One of my favorite leaders in business was Chainsaw Al Dunlap. While his career ended on an ignominious note, he had some amazing successes leading up to that point. One of his best quotes was, "When there are problems, I don’t blame employees. I pick the right targets: management and the board of directors." In Rice Football's case, the blame lies with the Athletics Director (current and past) and the Board of Trustees. They don't have a winning vision. They don't have a winning fundraising strategy. They don't have a winning community relations strategy. They don't have anything positive when it comes to football! It's pathetic. Sadly, Rice fans have voted with their feet and their wallets and no longer support the program. This is the predictable result of years of horrible leadership from all involved.

One of the problems with this neglect is that, if the powers that be were to ever see the light and try to fix the situation, it would take a huge investment and a huge amount of time, more than it would have taken, say, ten years ago. On just one of many levels, how do you get the fans back after feeding them drivel for so long.

Not a perfect analogy but .... in his celebrated Seven Habits book, Stephen Covey talks about trust. He tells the story of a restaurant with incredible chowder. At lunch, there were long lines to get in to eat the food. Then some new owners took over. They figured they could increase their profits by watering down the chowder. And it worked ... for a while. But once the word got around, people quit going to the restaurant. The restaurant realized its mistake and returned to the old recipe. But it was too little too late. Trust had been broken. If I recall correctly, Covey said that the restaurant never recovered.

We have been neglected far too long. This board may not be the whole of Rice Nation, but its members probably constitute the most passionate part of Rice Nation, at least as far as athletics are concerned. It seems insane/incompetent to ignore the perspective of such a critical group of stakeholders (not to mention ignoring the perspectives of any group of stakeholders.) There are so many competing demands on people's time and money these days that one wonders why people would devote either time or money to an organization that routinely ignores them.

This might sound extreme to some, but to those of us with spec ops backgrounds, it is very realistic - there are few strategies that the admin/AD could have chosen to kill Rice football than the one they have pursued.

Frankly it comes down to guts and lack there of. I was at a preseason event when Leebron had just become president and Hatfield introduced him, it was clear that Leebron wanted to be at that event as much as he wanted to be at his own lobotomy. Neglect is plausible deniability. See how we painted the stadium and have plans, see how we convinced alumni to donate for new buildings so we can build our resume as a university builder (um err, show everybody our support and what a great physical plant we have built). Neglect is just as much a killer as a cancellation, it just takes less guts.

(09-23-2017 10:41 PM)greyowl72 Wrote:  I had to leave for dinner right after FIU scored in the first part of the second half. Turned out it was a good decision.
I have no prediction for the rest of the season.

At this point, I'm just thinking about our players and their families. As bad as I feel, they have to feel 10X's worse.

I'll be at the Army game, hoping for the best. After that, as the old Eight Ball would say, "The future is cloudy and uncertain".

The sad thing is, if Rice hadn't given up an absurd FG at the end of the first half (no way FIU should have been able to get from the Rice 10 to a 44-yard field goal with only 1 timeout), Rice is kicking to tie the game from the 1st and goal situation at the end. Although part of me believes that once Rice would have gotten to about the 30 yard line, DB would have gone conservative to play for the FG at that range, rather than keep on pushing it.

IMHO, the only question that remains is whether this is 1968, 1977, 1983, 1988, or 2005. While in 2005, it was clear the wheels had fallen off, Hatfield arguably had more success than Bailiff and at least in those other years, the competition was significantly better.

(09-24-2017 10:09 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  IMHO, the only question that remains is whether this is 1968, 1977, 1983, 1988, or 2005. While in 2005, it was clear the wheels had fallen off, Hatfield arguably had more success than Bailiff and at least in those other years, the competition was significantly better.

I'm waiting to see whether this is 1994, 1998, or 2013. (See post in other thread) realistically, probably just 1998. UTSA will probably sneak by us 22-16 ending our division title hopes.

It's 2017. A new level of bad.

(09-24-2017 02:00 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 12:34 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Trash football in a trash conference.

Let me be clear, this is not on the players.

The wisdom runs deep in this one

Definitely not the players. They have nothing to do with these results. I wonder if former players feel the same way about this? Where did they go?

(09-24-2017 10:54 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 02:00 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 12:34 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Trash football in a trash conference.

Let me be clear, this is not on the players.

The wisdom runs deep in this one

Definitely not the players. They have nothing to do with these results. I wonder if former players feel the same way about this? Where did they go?

You mean the 250 former players that signed the letter of support for DB that convinced JK to keep DB?

(09-24-2017 12:22 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 10:54 AM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 02:00 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 12:34 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Trash football in a trash conference.

Let me be clear, this is not on the players.

The wisdom runs deep in this one

Definitely not the players. They have nothing to do with these results. I wonder if former players feel the same way about this? Where did they go?

You mean the 250 former players that signed the letter of support for DB that convinced JK to keep DB?

Yes, those. Do those players believe the poor performances are mostly on the coach they love and protect, the players that we can't ever say anything against (because we're just dumb-dumbs who post on a board and don't know anything), the donors who funded their nice new facility, or the schedule makers who brought a bottom 10 team into Rice Stadium? It seems as though those players are running out of people to NOT hold accountable. So I really wonder what those former players think should be done now.

On Monday, we will hear the usual, 'loss is on me, we have to get them ready, starting 6 players that were not starters in fall camp including 3 third teamers, etc, etc.' All of that is true, but when you lose to a Bottom 10 team that are the teams that DB usually beats, you know this is even a worse Rice team than normal over the past decade.

For folks here, I see three choices...a) Give more and support more to show that you want Rice FB to be successful and it just requires more resources for current resources (i.e,., the petition group), b) Give less and support less (i.e., many here) or c) Give same and support/care less.

I am in the c group which means that I will write a check and keep my tickets b/c I want Rice to have my $. It is me giving back to the University which positively impacted my life. But my emotional connection to the current program as long as this is willing to be accepted has left. I won't be at any games this year and have already found myself 'checking-out' in my free time spent on Rice Football.

Positive change to the product on the field will bring me back but am a point where investing emotional energy in this product is a fool's errand. We have over a decade of results that show that with talent, Rice can beat bad teams and go to bowl games. But even with talent, teams are not competitive against other teams with talent. But when talent and/or injuries are present, Rice cannot even beat bad teams.

So to JK, Leebron, and BoT, until change happens, you can have my $ but have lost me giving my time and heart.

(09-24-2017 01:04 PM)owl40 Wrote:  On Monday, we will hear the usual, 'loss is on me, we have to get them ready, starting 6 players that were not starters in fall camp including 3 third teamers, etc, etc.' All of that is true, but when you lose to a Bottom 10 team that are the teams that DB usually beats, you know this is even a worse Rice team than normal over the past decade.

For folks here, I see three choices...a) Give more and support more to show that you want Rice FB to be successful and it just requires more resources for current resources (i.e,., the petition group), b) Give less and support less (i.e., many here) or c) Give same and support/care less.

I am in the c group which means that I will write a check and keep my tickets b/c I want Rice to have my $. It is me giving back to the University which positively impacted my life. But my emotional connection to the current program as long as this is willing to be accepted has left. I won't be at any games this year and have already found myself 'checking-out' in my free time spent on Rice Football.

Positive change to the product on the field will bring me back but am a point where investing emotional energy in this product is a fool's errand. We have over a decade of results that show that with talent, Rice can beat bad teams and go to bowl games. But even with talent, teams are not competitive against other teams with talent. But when talent and/or injuries are present, Rice cannot even beat bad teams.

So to JK, Leebron, and BoT, until change happens, you can have my $ but have lost me giving my time and heart.

Exactly where I am, but will attend if wildly convenient and virtually nothing else to do.

(09-24-2017 01:16 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 01:04 PM)owl40 Wrote:  On Monday, we will hear the usual, 'loss is on me, we have to get them ready, starting 6 players that were not starters in fall camp including 3 third teamers, etc, etc.' All of that is true, but when you lose to a Bottom 10 team that are the teams that DB usually beats, you know this is even a worse Rice team than normal over the past decade.

For folks here, I see three choices...a) Give more and support more to show that you want Rice FB to be successful and it just requires more resources for current resources (i.e,., the petition group), b) Give less and support less (i.e., many here) or c) Give same and support/care less.

I am in the c group which means that I will write a check and keep my tickets b/c I want Rice to have my $. It is me giving back to the University which positively impacted my life. But my emotional connection to the current program as long as this is willing to be accepted has left. I won't be at any games this year and have already found myself 'checking-out' in my free time spent on Rice Football.

Positive change to the product on the field will bring me back but am a point where investing emotional energy in this product is a fool's errand. We have over a decade of results that show that with talent, Rice can beat bad teams and go to bowl games. But even with talent, teams are not competitive against other teams with talent. But when talent and/or injuries are present, Rice cannot even beat bad teams.

So to JK, Leebron, and BoT, until change happens, you can have my $ but have lost me giving my time and heart.

Exactly where I am, but will attend if wildly convenient and virtually nothing else to do.

Same here. I live 400 miles away, and just a few years ago my wife and I made 10 of 12 games that season . This year we made the UH game. I'll be in for the Army game.. I'd like to use a couple of my 4 season tickets at least once.
Then, that's it for this season. I might check in online for a game but I'm not going to spend the $, the time or, more importantly, the emotional energy to watch "rinse and repeat".
The telling blow was a conversation with Mrs. Greyowl, walking back from to the hotel after the UH game. I remarked that it didn't look like we belonged on the same field with the Coogs. Her reply was "I don't think we belong on ANY field with ANY team."

I was considering taking the family to see the game at ODU in November, even though we have a birthday party to also host that weekend. Wife had signed off on it, if it looked like it might be a good game. (Took them to the basketball game last year.) Needless to say, I don't think we'll be making that trip. ODU doesn't appear to be as good as normal this year, but Rice is a new level of putrid.

At least it feels that way to me. That said, Rice's Massey power rating right now is actually better than the final power rating the previous 2 years. That UTEP "beatdown" is keeping this year's rating up. A closer UTEP game probably lowers the power rating a bunch. As UTEP appears to be more and more of an anomaly, the rating will continue to drop.

Independent UMass, without a league (because no one wants them in their league, because they're that much of an anchor) and at 0-5, is rated a TD better than Rice.