(09-25-2017 09:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 02:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 07:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Presbyterian had to repeat a transition year from Division II. Let that sink in for a minute.

Presbyterian should have never moved up.

It is my understanding they moved up as part of a package deal with Georgia Tech. Presbyterian wanted to play FB in Atlanta for recruiting. GT wanted a FCS team so the win counted toward bowl eligibility. So they deal they cut, again, IIRC, was PC would get two paycheck games in Atlanta and a paycheck basketball game in Atlanta. In exchange for the three games, Presbyterian did the necessary work to move up to FCS before those football games.

But I agree Presbyterian has no business in D-I. There is more than enough room for another FBS level public in the Upstate of SC. But Presbyterian isn't it. Furman and Wofford are both private. Furman has the money to make a go if they ever went public, but with that beautiful campus and those profit margins, why bother? USC Upstate would have to escape from the micromanagement of Columbia before it would be allowed to happen.

Is Agnes Scott next? Inquiring minds want to know.

(09-25-2017 09:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  It is my understanding they moved up as part of a package deal with Georgia Tech. Presbyterian wanted to play FB in Atlanta for recruiting. GT wanted a FCS team so the win counted toward bowl eligibility. So they deal they cut, again, IIRC, was PC would get two paycheck games in Atlanta and a paycheck basketball game in Atlanta. In exchange for the three games, Presbyterian did the necessary work to move up to FCS before those football games.

If true it just confirms the fact that PC should have never moved up.

They are a small, expensive, religious based private school in a small town in a county of less than 75k that is actually losing residents rather than gaining them.

Quote:But I agree Presbyterian has no business in D-I. There is more than enough room for another FBS level public in the Upstate of SC. But Presbyterian isn't it. Furman and Wofford are both private. Furman has the money to make a go if they ever went public, but with that beautiful campus and those profit margins, why bother? USC Upstate would have to escape from the micromanagement of Columbia before it would be allowed to happen.

Furman, Wofford, and especially Upstate don't have the fan support to be FBS programs. The first two because they'll always be small private schools and the third because A. they have been under the thumb of Columbia so long that any potential big money donors owe allegiance to the coots and B. it's Spartanburg and nobody in Spartanburg has shown any desire to move the city beyond the 1960's. If Upstate were in a dynamic, growing corner of the state like Coastal is I could maybe see it a decade or so AFTER seceding from Columbia but Spartanburg isn't known for dynamic, forward thinking leaders like Greenville and other areas of the state.

(09-25-2017 10:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 09:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 02:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 07:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Presbyterian had to repeat a transition year from Division II. Let that sink in for a minute.

Presbyterian should have never moved up.

It is my understanding they moved up as part of a package deal with Georgia Tech. Presbyterian wanted to play FB in Atlanta for recruiting. GT wanted a FCS team so the win counted toward bowl eligibility. So they deal they cut, again, IIRC, was PC would get two paycheck games in Atlanta and a paycheck basketball game in Atlanta. In exchange for the three games, Presbyterian did the necessary work to move up to FCS before those football games.

But I agree Presbyterian has no business in D-I. There is more than enough room for another FBS level public in the Upstate of SC. But Presbyterian isn't it. Furman and Wofford are both private. Furman has the money to make a go if they ever went public, but with that beautiful campus and those profit margins, why bother? USC Upstate would have to escape from the micromanagement of Columbia before it would be allowed to happen.

Is Agnes Scott next? Inquiring minds want to know.

Are they not on the list for not countable games for NAIA and NCAA?

(09-25-2017 10:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 09:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  It is my understanding they moved up as part of a package deal with Georgia Tech. Presbyterian wanted to play FB in Atlanta for recruiting. GT wanted a FCS team so the win counted toward bowl eligibility. So they deal they cut, again, IIRC, was PC would get two paycheck games in Atlanta and a paycheck basketball game in Atlanta. In exchange for the three games, Presbyterian did the necessary work to move up to FCS before those football games.

If true it just confirms the fact that PC should have never moved up.

They are a small, expensive, religious based private school in a small town in a county of less than 75k that is actually losing residents rather than gaining them.

Quote:But I agree Presbyterian has no business in D-I. There is more than enough room for another FBS level public in the Upstate of SC. But Presbyterian isn't it. Furman and Wofford are both private. Furman has the money to make a go if they ever went public, but with that beautiful campus and those profit margins, why bother? USC Upstate would have to escape from the micromanagement of Columbia before it would be allowed to happen.

Furman, Wofford, and especially Upstate don't have the fan support to be FBS programs. The first two because they'll always be small private schools and the third because A. they have been under the thumb of Columbia so long that any potential big money donors owe allegiance to the coots and B. it's Spartanburg and nobody in Spartanburg has shown any desire to move the city beyond the 1960's. If Upstate were in a dynamic, growing corner of the state like Coastal is I could maybe see it a decade or so AFTER seceding from Columbia but Spartanburg isn't known for dynamic, forward thinking leaders like Greenville and other areas of the state.

I think we're in near total agreement. But I think Upstate could do well after getting out from Columbia. And there's an academic case for that as well. Upstate has the most highly accredited CS program in the state (unless Clemson regained their lost second accreditation in the last few years). It is pretty much open knowledge that their nursing program is also the best, and Columbia is very explicitly stopping them from doing post graduate work in that area. And I think they could expand into Robotics and other areas (they have a NICE robotics lab with equipment donated by Staubli, who have a facility in Duncan and supply and support the industrial robots at BMW's plant). And there's just so damn many people now in the I-85 counties that Upstate's enrollment has in the last 2 decades tripled. And I think Upstate's growth would be driven in part by, like Clemson, drawing not necessarily from immediately at campus but from the greater Upstate. And lastly the Upstate still needs a large public COMMUTER school. While I don't see them getting enormous commuter like USF/UCF ... they'd still get pretty big if they put their mind to it. Clemson is too far away to be a reasonable full time commuter school for a good chunk of the I-85 counties. But ... again ... gotta escape Columbia first.

(09-25-2017 10:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 10:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 09:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 02:21 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-24-2017 07:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Presbyterian had to repeat a transition year from Division II. Let that sink in for a minute.

Presbyterian should have never moved up.

It is my understanding they moved up as part of a package deal with Georgia Tech. Presbyterian wanted to play FB in Atlanta for recruiting. GT wanted a FCS team so the win counted toward bowl eligibility. So they deal they cut, again, IIRC, was PC would get two paycheck games in Atlanta and a paycheck basketball game in Atlanta. In exchange for the three games, Presbyterian did the necessary work to move up to FCS before those football games.

But I agree Presbyterian has no business in D-I. There is more than enough room for another FBS level public in the Upstate of SC. But Presbyterian isn't it. Furman and Wofford are both private. Furman has the money to make a go if they ever went public, but with that beautiful campus and those profit margins, why bother? USC Upstate would have to escape from the micromanagement of Columbia before it would be allowed to happen.

Is Agnes Scott next? Inquiring minds want to know.

Are they not on the list for not countable games for NAIA and NCAA?

Uh, David, I was making a joke. Agnes Scott is a college just for women. Georgia Tech guys used to date Agnes Scott women.

(09-25-2017 10:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Uh, David, I was making a joke. Agnes Scott is a college just for women. Georgia Tech guys used to date Agnes Scott women.

They curve so damn aggressively in admissions, and they are getting so many more admissions in total now, that the gap isn't what it use to be. I think the current freshman class was the highest ever female percentage at 42%. Georgia State is literally the inverse of this based on most recent statistics. 41% male. So basically it's a wash at the social places in midtown.

(09-25-2017 10:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 10:43 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 09:53 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  It is my understanding they moved up as part of a package deal with Georgia Tech. Presbyterian wanted to play FB in Atlanta for recruiting. GT wanted a FCS team so the win counted toward bowl eligibility. So they deal they cut, again, IIRC, was PC would get two paycheck games in Atlanta and a paycheck basketball game in Atlanta. In exchange for the three games, Presbyterian did the necessary work to move up to FCS before those football games.

If true it just confirms the fact that PC should have never moved up.

They are a small, expensive, religious based private school in a small town in a county of less than 75k that is actually losing residents rather than gaining them.

Quote:But I agree Presbyterian has no business in D-I. There is more than enough room for another FBS level public in the Upstate of SC. But Presbyterian isn't it. Furman and Wofford are both private. Furman has the money to make a go if they ever went public, but with that beautiful campus and those profit margins, why bother? USC Upstate would have to escape from the micromanagement of Columbia before it would be allowed to happen.

Furman, Wofford, and especially Upstate don't have the fan support to be FBS programs. The first two because they'll always be small private schools and the third because A. they have been under the thumb of Columbia so long that any potential big money donors owe allegiance to the coots and B. it's Spartanburg and nobody in Spartanburg has shown any desire to move the city beyond the 1960's. If Upstate were in a dynamic, growing corner of the state like Coastal is I could maybe see it a decade or so AFTER seceding from Columbia but Spartanburg isn't known for dynamic, forward thinking leaders like Greenville and other areas of the state.

I think we're in near total agreement. But I think Upstate could do well after getting out from Columbia. And there's an academic case for that as well. Upstate has the most highly accredited CS program in the state (unless Clemson regained their lost second accreditation in the last few years). It is pretty much open knowledge that their nursing program is also the best, and Columbia is very explicitly stopping them from doing post graduate work in that area. And I think they could expand into Robotics and other areas (they have a NICE robotics lab with equipment donated by Staubli, who have a facility in Duncan and supply and support the industrial robots at BMW's plant). And there's just so damn many people now in the I-85 counties that Upstate's enrollment has in the last 2 decades tripled. And I think Upstate's growth would be driven in part by, like Clemson, drawing not necessarily from immediately at campus but from the greater Upstate. And lastly the Upstate still needs a large public COMMUTER school. While I don't see them getting enormous commuter like USF/UCF ... they'd still get pretty big if they put their mind to it. Clemson is too far away to be a reasonable full time commuter school for a good chunk of the I-85 counties. But ... again ... gotta escape Columbia first.

The problem there is Upstate has no friends in the Spartanburg County Legislative delegation except Steve Long. Everybody else is either affiliated with a school that would be hurt by an independent Upstate or has no dog in the fight.