And all of those are still better than the US system. Your health or your house. You decide. USA USA USA

Nobody is saying that their systems are perfect. They're not. But to suggest we are a beacon here on the cost and administration side? Ridiculous. We pay a crapton in insurance premiums (even non ACA plans), employers also pay a crapton in insurance premiums (non ACA), we pay the most for treatment, we pay the most for medicine/prescriptions, etc. And not all of that is chalked up to skill. ACA simply stopped some of the bleeding because the previous "system" would be even more of a disaster. Our free market healthcare solution has been an unmitigated disaster.

It's crazy that after 7 years of crying, the GOP can't come up with a plan people actually like. Just need another few days, though!

(09-25-2017 11:55 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  And all of those are still better than the US system. Your health or your house. You decide. USA USA USA

Nobody is saying that their systems are perfect. They're not. But to suggest we are a beacon here on the cost and administration side? Ridiculous. We pay a crapton in insurance premiums (even non ACA plans), employers also pay a crapton in insurance premiums (non ACA), we pay the most for treatment, we pay the most for medicine/prescriptions, etc. And not all of that is chalked up to skill. ACA simply stopped some of the bleeding because the previous "system" would be even more of a disaster. Our free market healthcare solution has been an unmitigated disaster.

It's crazy that after 7 years of crying, the GOP can't come up with a plan people actually like. Just need another few days, though!

LMAO

"Well you are going to die but at least you get to keep your house! Maybe they can sell it to pay for your funeral expenses"

(09-25-2017 11:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  LMAO

"Well you are going to die but at least you get to keep your house! Maybe they can sell it to pay for your funeral expenses"

Or... Congrats! You lived! Now you're homeless! LMAO, the insurance companies say.

womp womp

(09-26-2017 12:01 AM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  

(09-25-2017 11:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  LMAO

"Well you are going to die but at least you get to keep your house! Maybe they can sell it to pay for your funeral expenses"

Or... Congrats! You lived! Now you're homeless! LMAO, the insurance companies say.

womp womp

I don't know about anybody else but I'd prefer to be living and homeless than dead and a homeowner. At least if I'm alive I have a chance to change my living arrangements. Not so much when your dead.

(09-25-2017 11:55 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  And all of those are still better than the US system. Your health or your house. You decide. USA USA USA

Nobody is saying that their systems are perfect. They're not. But to suggest we are a beacon here on the cost and administration side? Ridiculous. We pay a crapton in insurance premiums (even non ACA plans), employers also pay a crapton in insurance premiums (non ACA), we pay the most for treatment, we pay the most for medicine/prescriptions, etc. And not all of that is chalked up to skill. ACA simply stopped some of the bleeding because the previous "system" would be even more of a disaster. Our free market healthcare solution has been an unmitigated disaster.

It's crazy that after 7 years of crying, the GOP can't come up with a plan people actually like. Just need another few days, though!

Aaaaaand, how many Canadians fleeing to, what? England for dentist work? Or, Irish fleeing to Canada for pancreatic cancer surgery care?

WTF are you even talking about?

We provide the best care, to the most people, in the promptest fashion than anyone ever in human history. Saved more lives than ever before as well in the process.

Here, there and especially on the African Continent where WE have probably saved millions of lives that would most certainly have been lost. Who's done more?!?

Care to dispute any of that? I'll take all comers.

Yeah they're using hacksaws in the field over in Canada and the UK. No good hospitals or healthcare systems there. I once saw them pour whiskey over an open wound!

I think they still do bloodletting over there too. My post clearly also said insurance and administration. No crap our care is good. We fail miserably on those other fronts for the majority of people. Yes, you're all fixed up but you're also bankrupt or begging the hospital for mercy.

And if it is not immediately life-threatening, they certainly will turn you away if you can't pay up in most situations. I've seen too many people - even with insurance, have to start up crowdfunding to beg for money just to pay for their cancer treatments. How you're ok with that is something I will never understand.

(09-26-2017 12:26 AM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  Yeah they're using hacksaws in the field over in Canada and the UK. No good hospitals or healthcare systems there. I once saw them pour whiskey over an open wound!

I think they still do bloodletting over there too. My post clearly also said insurance and administration. No crap our care is good. We fail miserably on those other fronts for the majority of people. Yes, you're all fixed up but you're also bankrupt r begging the hospital for mercy.

And if it is not immediately life-threatening, they certainly will turn you away if you can't pay up in most situations. I've seen too many people - even with insurance, have to start up crowdfunding to beg for money just to pay for their cancer treatments. How you're ok with that is something I will never understand.

What?

Who?

Wut?
bloodletting, life threatening, cancer treatments, unmet?!?

crowdfunding? for what hospital system?

I'll gladly offer a phone call of condemnation, give me a ph number to reach them! .

That sounds third world style horrific. Send them my condolences...

You're telling me in the US you have never seen anyone have to resort to crowdfunding to fund life-saving and/or chronic medical treatments including cancer? Then you haven't been looking hard enough. Your phone call won't pay those bills.

(09-26-2017 12:26 AM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  Yeah they're using hacksaws in the field over in Canada and the UK. No good hospitals or healthcare systems there. I once saw them pour whiskey over an open wound!

I think they still do bloodletting over there too. My post clearly also said insurance and administration. No crap our care is good. We fail miserably on those other fronts for the majority of people. Yes, you're all fixed up but you're also bankrupt or begging the hospital for mercy.

And if it is not immediately life-threatening, they certainly will turn you away if you can't pay up in most situations. I've seen too many people - even with insurance, have to start up crowdfunding to beg for money just to pay for their cancer treatments. How you're ok with that is something I will never understand.

AT LEAST YOU CAN GET TREATMENT HERE!!!!!

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/16/can...ies-report

Quote:Well, it turns out that compared to other industrialized countries, Canada has the highest proportion of patients reporting excessively long waits in an emergency department, a report released Thursday by the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) shows.

The report, part of a survey of residents in 11 countries sponsored by the U.S.-based Commonwealth Fund, shows 29% of Canadians had to wait four hours or longer before being seen by a practitioner during their most recent emergency department visit.

That’s almost three times the international average of 11% of patients who had to wait that long. Patients in France, Germany and the Netherlands fared the best, with 1% to 4% reporting a four-hour-plus wait time.

Canada also topped the list for having the highest proportion of patients with long delays to see specialists, with 56% waiting longer than four weeks, compared with the international average of 36%, CIHI said.

In Switzerland, the proportion of patients who waited that long was 22%; in the U.S., it was 24%.

“In seven out of eight measures of timely access to care, Canada was significantly below the international average,” Christina Lawand, a senior researcher at CIHI, said from Ottawa.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/de...e-2015.pdf

Quote:One explanation for patients travelling abroad to receive medical treatment may relate to the long waiting times they are forced endure in Canada’s health care system. In 2014, patients could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist–3 weeks longer than the time physicians consider to be clinically “reasonable” (6.5 weeks)

"So sorry you died waiting to see the specialist. Just think aboot the fact you still have your house, eh"

(09-24-2017 07:55 AM)Paul M Wrote:  That's what you should have linked to. Specifically the part where they say "It will succeed in yanking health insurance for millions".

Plus anything that backed up "That will be considered an improvement by the right".

Whoosh !

(09-26-2017 12:39 AM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  You're telling me in the US you have never seen anyone have to resort to crowdfunding to fund life-saving and/or chronic medical treatments including cancer? Then you haven't been looking hard enough. Your phone call won't pay those bills.

uhhh, never claimed anything of the sort.

put down the pipe.

And even with wait times, they acknowledge it is still better than the US overall.

"So we're better than The United States," he wrote, referring to the rankings. "But should we really aim so low."

I already said it wasn't perfect.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countri...ealth-care

As if people don't die waiting for treatment for finding ways to pay for treatment in the US... What's scary is a lot of it is due to people finally seeing the doctor. Since, you know, they finally at least got some form of insurance to make things a bit more affordable. So US shorter wait times were due in part because people just didn't go to the doctor in the first place because it wasn't affordable. Now that it is somewhat better, the industry hasn't caught up to the demand and there is a doctor shortage.

US Wait Times: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015...e-than-nhs

More US Wait Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/sunda....html?_r=0