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Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
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TTT Offline
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Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
I know I mentioned this in another thread recently but I feel like it deserves it's own thread. From 1996-2011 USM's football record was 126-73 (8-6 in bowl games). Why weren't we able to grow our fanbase...? I don't have the #'s but I'm willing to bet our avg. attendance was prob. somewhere around the 25k mark during those 16 years. Are we really going to use the excuse that we live in SEC country and people got sick of Bower??? There's got to be another reason why we weren't averaging more and more fans at games/season tix holders every season.
09-18-2017 01:22 PM
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BeagleUSM Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
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09-18-2017 02:02 PM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
Gotcha...3 terrible state employees that didn't do hardly jack for the university. But are those 3 people the sole reason why more people didn't go to pat ferlise center, buy a tix, and attend more games?
09-18-2017 02:17 PM
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TheChosenOne Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
Period of time Southern Miss was winning games and enjoying its new conference affiliation with CUSA. Unfortunately south Mississippi casual fan did not view the conference as worthy. I recall negative comments about Louisville, Memphis, Tulane etc. folks would say they refused to spend money watching these high school teams. Today we'd love to be back in that very position. Southern Miss administration has a standing history of poor marketing and not building energy in our outside the program(s). Looking back, Fedora and Tyndall shouldered that responsibility and did well, excluding Tyndall scandals. All of this coupled with fans becoming bored with Coach Bower offense philosophy. The man could win some games but let's be honest, it was boring.

Of course above is only my opinion, proving is another challenge. Until a new energy is stocked into this program fan support will remain consistent or decline. Based on this, and if you wanted to drill it down to one cause, administration is the key issue. As Stink says, our administration can't get an informative web page going. Again, just my two cents
09-18-2017 03:02 PM
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jebaroo Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-18-2017 03:02 PM)TheChosenOne Wrote:  Period of time Southern Miss was winning games and enjoying its new conference affiliation with CUSA. Unfortunately south Mississippi casual fan did not view the conference as worthy. I recall negative comments about Louisville, Memphis, Tulane etc. folks would say they refused to spend money watching these high school teams. Today we'd love to be back in that very position. Southern Miss administration has a standing history of poor marketing and not building energy in our outside the program(s). Looking back, Fedora and Tyndall shouldered that responsibility and did well, excluding Tyndall scandals. All of this coupled with fans becoming bored with Coach Bower offense philosophy. The man could win some games but let's be honest, it was boring.

Of course above is only my opinion, proving is another challenge. Until a new energy is stocked into this program fan support will remain consistent or decline. Based on this, and if you wanted to drill it down to one cause, administration is the key issue. As Stink says, our administration can't get an informative web page going. Again, just my two cents


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09-18-2017 03:19 PM
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TheChosenOne Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
Ellis was 2012, I attempted to stay within range OP defined.
09-18-2017 03:22 PM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
I think the dates in question need to go back to the 80's. That's when we got labeled as giant killers and the real Nasty Bunch was in play. Why couldn't we expand upon what was built leading up to Curly's departure?

Now I'm probably about to get slammed for this, but it is my opinion that the complacency and the long downhill spiral started when he left. I've got nothing against Bower or what he did here, but would he have been so successful had we not gotten into CUSA? We were the bell cow program and we dominated all of these schools that have now passed us by, but you have to keep in mind that those schools were not what they are now. There were a lot of wins and bowl appearances because we were in a weak conference and had those tie-ins. It was a fun run, but IMHO it caused the fan base to get complacent. We could when eight games and go to a bowl game...look at how successful we are. So Bower had is 17 years. How many coordinators did he go through? Well along the way of our 7-8 win seasons and a bowl game L'ville, Cincy, TCU, etc. got a little tired of the status quo. A lot of us site the 2000 homecoming game against L'ville as the turning point. I agree. It started becoming clear that we were getting left behind. In true TTT we watched it happen for several years before we acted and now you have our current situation.

I've typed too much and my head hurts!
09-18-2017 04:14 PM
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CajunEagle Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
I'm going to make it simple. The Southern Miss Athletic Administration, and all it's off shoots, has too much turnover of employees. And, it really has the ability to just piss people off........way too much. Consumers then just don't give a flying frig.
09-18-2017 04:28 PM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
We won a lot of games during that time, but as someone else mentioned, the competition wasn't great. More importantly, though, whenever the competition was good, we'd lose to it 49 times out of 50. Bower's 0-fer vs winning major conference teams is well-documented, but his record vs. winning teams in general wasn't much better.

Everybody harps on that Louisville game, but the one I'd most like to change the outcome of is Tulane 1998. Win that one, and we're conference champions & in the Liberty Bowl 3 years in a row. That's how you build momentum and get people's attention.

Frankly, there were too many times during the period given that we were challenged and weren't up for the task. We conditioned fans (and I'll suggest players & coaches, too) to expect USM to lose the big one. There's an ingrained institutional lack of sack that con-
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09-18-2017 09:58 PM
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ProfessorEagle Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
It's not due to losing any particular game, 2-3 "bad" administrators, or coaches who stayed too long or left too early. Every program in America has experienced these things. It's not because of the conference we are in. Lots of people claimed CUSA sucked when we dominated it. Those people didn't care when we played Memphis, Houston, or Louisville. I sat in the stands with 14k fans as we beat Memphis to clinch our first Liberty Bowl bid.

They wouldn't care if we were playing them again. It is because of several decades of students who never really "bought in" and while students, they never attended games, and openly rooted for other schools in the state or region. They haven't set foot on campus again since they graduated. They support many other schools other than USM by buying season tickets in Baton Rouge, Starkville, Tuscaloosa, or Oxford, wearing their gear, and sending their kids to school to the schools they support other than USM. I know, your kid wants to go to ____ and they have a good program in _____, but they never even considered USM. I know tons of people like this. They are my "friends" but it irks me to no end.

I don't know the answer to the problem. We've been talking about it since I started following the Golden Eagles in 1987. Student participation has improved over the years and that bodes well for the future, but can we weather the present until then?
09-18-2017 10:32 PM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-18-2017 10:32 PM)ProfessorEagle Wrote:  It's not due to losing any particular game, 2-3 "bad" administrators, or coaches who stayed too long or left too early. Every program in America has experienced these things. It's not because of the conference we are in. Lots of people claimed CUSA sucked when we dominated it. Those people didn't care when we played Memphis, Houston, or Louisville. I sat in the stands with 14k fans as we beat Memphis to clinch our first Liberty Bowl bid.

They wouldn't care if we were playing them again. It is because of several decades of students who never really "bought in" and while students, they never attended games, and openly rooted for other schools in the state or region. They haven't set foot on campus again since they graduated. They support many other schools other than USM by buying season tickets in Baton Rouge, Starkville, Tuscaloosa, or Oxford, wearing their gear, and sending their kids to school to the schools they support other than USM. I know, your kid wants to go to ____ and they have a good program in _____, but they never even considered USM. I know tons of people like this. They are my "friends" but it irks me to no end.

I don't know the answer to the problem. We've been talking about it since I started following the Golden Eagles in 1987. Student participation has improved over the years and that bodes well for the future, but can we weather the present until then?

As I've said before, part of that equation is our high out-of-state student ratio. Kids come in as [insert applicable P5 team here] fans since birth, and while our little program provides a nice pastime while on campus, their passions remain with the school they're not attending. Then they graduate, go back home, and as you say, never make it back or contribute in any meaningful way. Add in the in-state students with Ole Miss & State ties who do the same thing, and it's a tough row to hoe, made even tougher when you do all the other stuff already mentioned in this thread on top of it.
09-18-2017 10:46 PM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
I could only find data back to 2000. Here is the average attendance by year:

2000 : 28,509
2001 : 25,649
2002 : 26,961
2003 : 28,645
2004 : 28,964
2005 : 27,862
2006 : 28,994
2007 : 26,721
2008 : 30,102
2009 : 30,696
2010 : 29,400
2011 : 28,400

Notable games vs BCS teams at home during above period:

2001 : 25,134 : OK St
2002 : 22,183 : Illinois
2003 : 36,152 : (15) Nebraska , 33k was stadium capacity at time
2004 : 27,480 : (4) California
2006 : 31,748 : NC St
2009 : 31,170 : UVA
2010 : 30,211 : Kansas
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2017 07:54 AM by va-eagle.)
09-19-2017 07:52 AM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-19-2017 07:52 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  I could only find data back to 2000. Here is the average attendance by year:

2000 : 28,509
2001 : 25,649
2002 : 26,961
2003 : 28,645
2004 : 28,964
2005 : 27,862
2006 : 28,994
2007 : 26,721
2008 : 30,102
2009 : 30,696
2010 : 29,400
2011 : 28,400

Notable games vs BCS teams at home during above period:

2001 : 25,134 : OK St
2002 : 22,183 : Illinois
2003 : 36,152 : (15) Nebraska , 33k was stadium capacity at time
2004 : 27,480 : (4) California
2006 : 31,748 : NC St
2009 : 31,170 : UVA
2010 : 30,211 : Kansas

I remember that Ok State game because I was soaked the entire day. I found these highlights from that game on youtube:



09-19-2017 08:27 AM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
We often say that our attendance problems are due to our competition. We took a dip after the 0-12 season, but when we had TCU, UH, Memphis, ECU, SMU on our schedule, our attendance really was no better than our last 2 years.

2012 : 25,616
2013 : 22,752
2014 : 22,739
2015 : 28,335
2016 : 28,588

Would our attendance improve playing that same group in AAC, yes. Reason would be psychological, we would think we have 'moved up' and that we should support more just for the sake of supporting more. But at the end of the day, we would be playing the same old teams when we averaged 28k before.
09-19-2017 08:48 AM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-18-2017 09:58 PM)HarborPointe Wrote:  We won a lot of games during that time, but as someone else mentioned, the competition wasn't great. More importantly, though, whenever the competition was good, we'd lose to it 49 times out of 50. Bower's 0-fer vs winning major conference teams is well-documented, but his record vs. winning teams in general wasn't much better.

Everybody harps on that Louisville game, but the one I'd most like to change the outcome of is Tulane 1998. Win that one, and we're conference champions & in the Liberty Bowl 3 years in a row. That's how you build momentum and get people's attention.

Frankly, there were too many times during the period given that we were challenged and weren't up for the task. We conditioned fans (and I'll suggest players & coaches, too) to expect USM to lose the big one. There's an ingrained institutional lack of sack that con-
Tinues
To
This day.

Tulane 1998, loserville 2000, Cinci 2004 blowout at home was a real eye-opener...... The fact is that Bower won 4 cusa (one of those a tie and we stayed home for the bowl game ) championships and easily could have won 7-8.... we simply did not win enough big games to go to 'the next level'
09-19-2017 09:24 AM
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usm99 Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-19-2017 08:48 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  We often say that our attendance problems are due to our competition. We took a dip after the 0-12 season, but when we had TCU, UH, Memphis, ECU, SMU on our schedule, our attendance really was no better than our last 2 years.

2012 : 25,616
2013 : 22,752
2014 : 22,739
2015 : 28,335
2016 : 28,588


Would our attendance improve playing that same group in AAC, yes. Reason would be psychological, we would think we have 'moved up' and that we should support more just for the sake of supporting more. But at the end of the day, we would be playing the same old teams when we averaged 28k before.

Based off the attendance numbers of our first 2 home games this year makes me wonder what the attendance actually was those seasons. I know attendance numbers are down but I just don't personally see how we're give or take 5k less in attendance figures this year compared to the last 2 seasons
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2017 09:56 AM by usm99.)
09-19-2017 09:55 AM
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EagleFWB Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
That's the whole thing now where they are counting actual butts in the seats this year. I guess in the past they counted every ticket that was given away, etc. not who was actually in the stadium.
09-19-2017 09:59 AM
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va-eagle Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-19-2017 09:59 AM)EagleFWB Wrote:  That's the whole thing now where they are counting actual butts in the seats this year. I guess in the past they counted every ticket that was given away, etc. not who was actually in the stadium.

Where are you getting that information? I've only seen 1 article that mentions attendance. We are counting more than butts-in-seats. Link below.

http://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/...44432.html

Quotes from article...
USM senior associate athletic director Stephen Pugh, who handles external operations, said that the number announced Saturday accounted for all tickets sold and distributed for the game.

“That was the number of tickets we had out for the game,” Pugh said Tuesday. “That included tickets sold, comp tickets and how many students were scanned in.”
Also included in the number were the band and USM staff on hand at Roberts Stadium.

I don't get how no one in the athletic department would not know this...
“We sat down and figured it out,” Pugh said. “I don't know how attendance was decided previously.”

Sure there are a lot of new people, but there is typically a known formula for such a MAJOR metric.
09-19-2017 10:26 AM
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
(09-19-2017 10:26 AM)va-eagle Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 09:59 AM)EagleFWB Wrote:  That's the whole thing now where they are counting actual butts in the seats this year. I guess in the past they counted every ticket that was given away, etc. not who was actually in the stadium.

Where are you getting that information? I've only seen 1 article that mentions attendance. We are counting more than butts-in-seats. Link below.

http://www.sunherald.com/sports/college/...44432.html

Quotes from article...
USM senior associate athletic director Stephen Pugh, who handles external operations, said that the number announced Saturday accounted for all tickets sold and distributed for the game.

“That was the number of tickets we had out for the game,” Pugh said Tuesday. “That included tickets sold, comp tickets and how many students were scanned in.”
Also included in the number were the band and USM staff on hand at Roberts Stadium.

I don't get how no one in the athletic department would not know this...
“We sat down and figured it out,” Pugh said. “I don't know how attendance was decided previously.”

Sure there are a lot of new people, but there is typically a known formula for such a MAJOR metric.

It is my understanding that the number of comp and discount tickets are tremendously reduced under the new regime.
09-19-2017 10:32 AM
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Eagleholic Offline
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RE: Why wasn't USM able to grow it's fanbase from '96-'11???
As has been mentioned before, Fedora brought excitement when he came on and attendance rose to average almost 30,00 during his 4 years, with 2012 being an opportunity to set all-time attendance records. We had over 34k for our first home game vs ECU following the ridiculous experiment in Nebraska. That season and the 2 that followed combined with the new CUSA killed a lot of fan interest and surely a number of fans were lost that will never return as long as the conference status quo continues.
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2017 10:37 AM by Eagleholic.)
09-19-2017 10:37 AM
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