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Other games 9-16
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Other games 9-16
(09-20-2017 04:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 01:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 12:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  That's kind of like saying people don't want to be rich because they don't put forth the effort and take the chances needed. Everyone wants to be rich.
The problem is that you don't get to be rich without putting forth that effort or taking those risks.
Kind of my point. To rephrase, the fact we haven't put forth the effort or taken the risks to be in a major conference doesn't mean we don't want to be in a major conference.

I'd say that at least historically we wanted to be in whatever conference we can be in without putting forth the effort. And I think a lot of our supporters still have that attitude.

If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 07:28 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
09-20-2017 05:07 PM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Other games 9-16
(09-20-2017 11:05 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 10:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 11:01 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  I am still waiting for the positive, strategic argument for keeping football from anyone.

The positive, strategic argument for keeping football is that in today's world of intercollegiate athletics, football is the ticket that lets you into the club. Unless you have a long basketball-strong tradition, like say a Georgetown or a St. John's, you are not getting a whiff from a major conference without football.

McKinsey said there were two viable options--commit to be competitive in D-1 or move to D-3. Twelve years later, I think the same two options are still the only ones on the table.

We didn't want to be in the AAC if you remember how Greenspan and Lebron laughed and derided it when asked about it at the Greenspan "EZF" announcement in Shepherd.

We don't want to be in a major conference. Or haven't you noticed?
09-20-2017 07:12 PM
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franklyconfused Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Other games 9-16
(09-20-2017 07:12 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 11:05 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 10:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 11:01 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  I am still waiting for the positive, strategic argument for keeping football from anyone.

The positive, strategic argument for keeping football is that in today's world of intercollegiate athletics, football is the ticket that lets you into the club. Unless you have a long basketball-strong tradition, like say a Georgetown or a St. John's, you are not getting a whiff from a major conference without football.

McKinsey said there were two viable options--commit to be competitive in D-1 or move to D-3. Twelve years later, I think the same two options are still the only ones on the table.

We didn't want to be in the AAC if you remember how Greenspan and Lebron laughed and derided it when asked about it at the Greenspan "EZF" announcement in Shepherd.

We don't want to be in a major conference. Or haven't you noticed?

Then why did we make a presentation to the Big XII last year? Delivering a Powerpoint is much cheaper and easier than actually building a competitive football program, but Leebron was presumably ready to sign if they gave us an invitation. He and JK didn't make the presentation without at least informal consent from the Board.
09-20-2017 08:23 PM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Other games 9-16
I think Leebron was rightfully embarrassed about how the snub of the AAC turned out so he tried to help JK with the presentation to the Big 12.
09-21-2017 08:31 AM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Other games 9-16
(09-20-2017 08:23 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 07:12 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 11:05 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(09-20-2017 10:39 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(09-19-2017 11:01 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  I am still waiting for the positive, strategic argument for keeping football from anyone.

The positive, strategic argument for keeping football is that in today's world of intercollegiate athletics, football is the ticket that lets you into the club. Unless you have a long basketball-strong tradition, like say a Georgetown or a St. John's, you are not getting a whiff from a major conference without football.

McKinsey said there were two viable options--commit to be competitive in D-1 or move to D-3. Twelve years later, I think the same two options are still the only ones on the table.

We didn't want to be in the AAC if you remember how Greenspan and Lebron laughed and derided it when asked about it at the Greenspan "EZF" announcement in Shepherd.

We don't want to be in a major conference. Or haven't you noticed?

Then why did we make a presentation to the Big XII last year? Delivering a Powerpoint is much cheaper and easier than actually building a competitive football program, but Leebron was presumably ready to sign if they gave us an invitation. He and JK didn't make the presentation without at least informal consent from the Board.

The invite to the Big XII's ultimately meaningless beauty contest was a complete deus ex machina. It dropped out of the sky into our lap without us doing anything really substantive to merit it. Yeah, we made a presentation, along with 17 other schools, got rejected, and immediately resumed doing nothing to change the status quo. It signifies nothing, other than perhaps that we were willing to go back on welfare with a major conference if by some miracle they took us.

At some point, I suggest dealing with the facts on the ground, not as we would wish them to be. It is beyond obvious by now that the leadership of the University has no intention of making the real, immediate, and "costly" (but the maddening thing is that we could afford it, of course) push it would take to legitimately aim for return to a P5 conference. If somebody can convince them otherwise, donate nine figures and force action down their throats, or even just get them to wake up and be embarrassed about the level we have fallen to, that would be great. Hasn't happened yet, though, and at this point, two decades-plus into this G5 wasteland, I suggest we stop wishing the leopard would change its spots.

What they do want is whatever sort of nominally Division I athletic program that they can have for about $24MM of subsidy per year. If that is the case, I'd rather see us adopt the University of Denver approach, drop football, and aim to have across-the-board excellence in the rest of our sports plus the emerging ones that we are missing. If that means the Missouri Valley or the Summit League or something similar, so be it. Literally nothing could be worse than CUSA.

There is no point to us playing G5 football if we are not doing so as part of a strategy to return to P5, which we clearly aren't and have no intention of doing. Other schools, mostly second-rate, fairly large public ones that are the only game for miles around, can make enough ticket and ancillary revenue playing football against other similar schools to justify it on its own. It is clear, however, that that is not the case at Rice. Rice people are not falling for this inferior and meaningless product, and there is thus essentially no football-specific revenue to be beholden to.
09-21-2017 08:52 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Other games 9-16
(09-21-2017 08:31 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I think Leebron was rightfully embarrassed about how the snub of the AAC turned out so he tried to help JK with the presentation to the Big 12.

I would characterize that as AAC passing over Rice. As much as I wish for Rice to 'move up' in athletics, I dont think the (in)action by the AAC was unwarranted given our ability to actually compete in money sports.

Should Rice be embarrassed? Probably.

Snub? Not really even from this pro-Rice biased observer.

This action (in a highly exaggerated analogy) would be akin to saying that the Chicago Cubs snubbed me when they passed over this unathletic 50 something year old when they did not respond to my request to be invited to Spring Training.
09-21-2017 08:57 AM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Other games 9-16
I think it was in part a direct thumbing of their noses at Rice by UH, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa. Like TCU before them these schools were more closely like Rice, as opposed to UT, Tech, A&M, were happy and eager to get away from us. The rationale that TV markets for the AAC gave them this chance. Tulane who barely kept their football program alive was the biggest insult. But the much more stable AAC gave them an opportunity to build an on campus stadium and a fighting chance to be a viable G5 program.
09-21-2017 11:19 AM
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