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Just an idea: Rice as an independent
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
(09-13-2017 12:22 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice could not become an independent. No bowl is gonna invite Rice, not even the Texas Bowl (because of their current tie-ins). Although in a major market, they have little penetration. No, just, no on Rice.

If they are 6-6 and there are no other 6-6 teams a bowl team has to invite them. If you are bowl eligible now days you will get an invite
09-13-2017 12:41 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
(09-13-2017 12:41 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 12:22 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice could not become an independent. No bowl is gonna invite Rice, not even the Texas Bowl (because of their current tie-ins). Although in a major market, they have little penetration. No, just, no on Rice.

If they are 6-6 and there are no other 6-6 teams a bowl team has to invite them. If you are bowl eligible now days you will get an invite

I don't think this is accurate. There are plenty of examples of 6-6 teams being left at home. However, I believe you are correct that you must be selected over any 5-7 teams vying for a spot.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2017 01:56 PM by YNot.)
09-13-2017 01:54 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
(09-12-2017 09:21 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As the thread title suggests, this is just an idea, not something I think will happen. But hey, what are message boards for?

With the ranks of independents going up to six starting next year (ND, Army, BYU, UMass, NMSU, and Liberty), it seems that survival at least as a G5 independent is more possible than it may have been a few years ago. Independents can, at least in part, schedule each other in late October through November.

With that in mind, I think that most schools' best interests are to be in a conference. For G5 schools, there's at least access to CFP revenue and the chance at the access bowl. Conferences provide a schedule and a layer of security. But Independence provides... freedom to schedule how you want, as best as you can. For Rice, who arguably has endured the worst downside in conference affiliation over the past 20+ years (70+ years in the SWC to the mega-WAC to a badly weakened WAC to C-USA 2.0 to a C-USA with no historic rivals at all), independence could have some merit.

Rice is now the only private school in a 14 team league. They know the SWC will never get back together, but they like playing old SWC foes out of conference. They also like playing other elite academic schools, like Stanford this year.

I can imagine Rice alumni being much happier with a 12 game slate featuring a mix of former SWC teams, other independents, other private schools, and other schools from Texas and surrounding states.

I don't think it would be as hard for Rice as it would be for most G5 schools to find 10 schools a year (plus one FCS and one payday game) who would be willing to do home-and-home series with Rice.

An ideal Rice independent schedule would have a few from each of these:
- 8 former SWC schools
- Independents
- Elite private schools/military academies: Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force
- Other schools in Texas: UTEP, North Texas, UTSA, Texas State
- FCS game
- Payday game against an Ohio State or other big spender
- A few others from across the country to fill it out

Rice obviously would need to join the Missouri Valley, Horizon, WAC, or some other league for Olympic sports.

I'm curious if anyone thinks this could make sense or if I'm just wacky.

Hope all of you affected by Harvey and Irma are safe and recovering well.

So where does Rice put Baseball and basketball?
09-13-2017 04:13 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
(09-13-2017 11:20 AM)blazr Wrote:  
(09-13-2017 10:16 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  What would Rice fans rather have? The current C-USA, or a rotating lineup of Houston, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force, the 5 indies (UMass, Liberty, NMSU, BYU, and Army), and the 3 Texas C-USA schools? The answer is obvious.

In addition, I think Rice would have an easier time getting home-and-home games with Sun Belt, MAC, and C-USA schools than NMSU and UMass do.

Wait, are we discussing what fans want or what will realistically happen with ADs/Presidents making the decisions? There are a lot of advantages of being in a conference that aren't obvious to fans and aren't just tossed aside. Also, don't minimize the value ADs place on having a set schedule from being a member of a conference. Rice has 6 games per year with CUSA members including and to the west of UAB plus another home game against a member in the East division and one trip a year to a school in the East. That means juggling 4 contracts per year for the remaining games. Compare that with creating/managing 12 agreements per season and the uncertainty that any of those could change for any reason (contracts are often being bought out in all kinds of circumstances). If you're talking about creating a "scheduling agreement" with a group of schools, Rice already has that in a conference and the chance of any of that group bailing out of the agreement is much less.

Again, there's a difference in what an AD/Pres would find preferable, or even consider, and what fans (of Rice or college football in general) would like.

Oh, I understand all that. Joining a conference lowers the workload for the AD. It's a lot of work to find and sign contracts for out-of-conference games.

That's why Notre Dame joined the ACC. It pissed the boosters off though. One of them told me his opinion of the ACC deal: "the Athletic Director didn't want to do the job we're paying him to do."
09-13-2017 04:52 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
It would still be a long shot, but there is actually one conference I could see inviting them as a member in everything but football: the Missouri Valley. They will need a travel partner (probably Little Rock), but the Valley would love to get their paws on Rice's baseball program. Dallas Baptist (Division I in baseball only) is already an associate member of the Valley. The other add would need to scratch the basketball itch, and be at least semi-close to Houston. Rice's sports also line up nicely with the MVC - both are pretty generic in their offerings, but Rice does have women's swimming and diving which is a MVC sport.
09-13-2017 05:49 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
What an interesting topic. Schools like Drake would love to affiliate with Rice.

If they could make a good enough schedule it would definitely be something to consider
09-13-2017 06:45 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
(09-13-2017 04:13 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(09-12-2017 09:21 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As the thread title suggests, this is just an idea, not something I think will happen. But hey, what are message boards for?

With the ranks of independents going up to six starting next year (ND, Army, BYU, UMass, NMSU, and Liberty), it seems that survival at least as a G5 independent is more possible than it may have been a few years ago. Independents can, at least in part, schedule each other in late October through November.

With that in mind, I think that most schools' best interests are to be in a conference. For G5 schools, there's at least access to CFP revenue and the chance at the access bowl. Conferences provide a schedule and a layer of security. But Independence provides... freedom to schedule how you want, as best as you can. For Rice, who arguably has endured the worst downside in conference affiliation over the past 20+ years (70+ years in the SWC to the mega-WAC to a badly weakened WAC to C-USA 2.0 to a C-USA with no historic rivals at all), independence could have some merit.

Rice is now the only private school in a 14 team league. They know the SWC will never get back together, but they like playing old SWC foes out of conference. They also like playing other elite academic schools, like Stanford this year.

I can imagine Rice alumni being much happier with a 12 game slate featuring a mix of former SWC teams, other independents, other private schools, and other schools from Texas and surrounding states.

I don't think it would be as hard for Rice as it would be for most G5 schools to find 10 schools a year (plus one FCS and one payday game) who would be willing to do home-and-home series with Rice.

An ideal Rice independent schedule would have a few from each of these:
- 8 former SWC schools
- Independents
- Elite private schools/military academies: Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force
- Other schools in Texas: UTEP, North Texas, UTSA, Texas State
- FCS game
- Payday game against an Ohio State or other big spender
- A few others from across the country to fill it out

Rice obviously would need to join the Missouri Valley, Horizon, WAC, or some other league for Olympic sports.

I'm curious if anyone thinks this could make sense or if I'm just wacky.

Hope all of you affected by Harvey and Irma are safe and recovering well.

So where does Rice put Baseball and basketball?

It would probably have to be the WAC, MVC, or Southland.
09-13-2017 07:09 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
(09-13-2017 10:16 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  What would Rice fans rather have? The current C-USA, or a rotating lineup of Houston, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force, the 5 indies (UMass, Liberty, NMSU, BYU, and Army), and the 3 Texas C-USA schools? The answer is obvious.
The question is, how many of SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Navy, Air Force plus the three Texas CUSA schools will be available in October and November on a regular basis? Or will CUSA turn around and thank Rice for leaving by giving them a scheduling agreement that allows them to continue to play the three CUSA Texas schools in October/November?

Even Notre Dame struggled to get the home games they wanted in the second half of the season without a scheduling agreement. Lacking that, it's looks to me like trying to fit the games that Rice fans would like to see into the first half, with a result of getting at most one or two more games they'd like to see per season. And for that, the question is whether the game is worth the candle.

Quote: In addition, I think Rice would have an easier time getting home-and-home games with Sun Belt, MAC, and C-USA schools than NMSU and UMass do.
But without a scheduling agreement, most of them trying to fit into the same window.

Where this would more clearly work in terms of actually getting the schools that Rice would rather be playing on the schedule in the same year is if CUSA loses a school, and is willing to give Rice a three game scheduling agreement in late October or early November to facilitate Rice going independent and CUSA dropping down to 12 members.
09-13-2017 07:13 PM
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allerretour Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
I speak only for myself, but I think CUSA isn't all that bad. I was at Rice in SWC days, and coming from Minnesota, I thought the SWC was the bomb, with its history and mix of very different privates and publics, all in close proximity. Unfortunately, that's all gone, with the Big 12 being the closest thing to it remaining, but I'm not sure even I - as a fairly-big sports fan - wants Rice in that, given the commercial turn that college athletics have taken. So I want Rice in an athletics conference that: a) will improve student life at Rice, and b) will be interesting for alums, in that order.

I like the MWC; there are some fun schools there. As an alum, I'd like to tell the guys are work: Yeah, we're going to play Boise St. this weekend, you know them. Or have Rice make a regular visit to the Bay Area, where we've got a million (on a Rice scale) alumni. The problem is, ALL those schools are so far away. If I had a friend on the track team and I wanted to see him run, I'd make a drive to Dallas or Austin, or New Orleans ... nobody's heading out to San Diego. I like the MWC and I think it would decent for alums, but I think it would kind of suck for students.

The AAC is logical. I think we could compete there. Tulane is a no-brainer match for Rice. Once again, as an alum, I could see the conversation: " Yeah, we play Tulane this weekend. Great school. New Orleans. We drove out sophomore year for the game. Fun time, pretty campus. We lost by 2." SMU - history. Always considered them the closest match in SWC, but I'm down on them now, taking some of the blame for the demise of the SWC. But, hey, it's still family at some level. Houston - I'm from Minnesota so this has always been a friendly rivalry for me. I'm a fan of Houston the city, so I want Houston the university to do well on all levels.

Anyway, that doesn't seem to be happening, so looking at CUSA, it's not perfect ... but it's not that bad. UTSA? I like them as a partner. First, they might develop into something sports-wise in the future, but even the present is OK. What a great road trip, driving out to see a soccer match at UTSA and checking out the city afterwards. Same with North Texas. See the game and check out the Metroplex afterwards (probably visiting some Rice friend's family). The whole CUSA West is solid, and - hey - those East schools are a long ways away, but they're OK too. ECU - ODU? What's the difference? I can see how an all-Texas league isn't going to make it today, but I really have no desire to see Rice flying to Connecticut for a conference game (no disrespect to Connecticut - great school, sister-in-law went there, basketball power ... but neither of us is going to play in the Rose Bowl, at least in our lifetimes).

So I'm OK with CUSA for the moment, and I'd have no desire to see us go independent.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2017 10:19 PM by allerretour.)
09-13-2017 10:07 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Just an idea: Rice as an independent
As I've said a billion times, Rice should invest to be a major or just throw in the towel and drop to, say, the Pioneer League and play everything else in the the Summit, Valley or Southland. They are with none of their historic peers, athletically or academically.
09-13-2017 10:59 PM
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