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Santa v. Graham
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Djud Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-10-2017 11:34 AM)7 Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:29 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 12:17 AM)Teamduh Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 08:15 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 07:42 PM)7 Wrote:  Santa threw at least one ball at a WRs feet (could have been more), threw a few inaccurate screens and on pass threw a pass where I had literally no idea who it was going to (I think there was miscommunication).

If you're going to try to analyze something don't let your bias get in the way of facts.

Santa was better today than Graham was last week, but don't sit here and say santa didn't throw anything inaccurate because that's not true.

Its more about the passes he made. A couple of big time throws. To Tears and Brown. Graham rarely makes those. Santa seems to have a knack for it, though limited evidence. An analogy would be Graham is Bouagnon and Santa is Huff. It's about the upside. The playmaking, game changing ability.
I fail to see the analogy. Huff is splitting time with Jones instead of being the main man like Joel last year.

I agree, the accurate deep passes for Santa were a huge improvement over last week. Let's hope he can continue this the next 2 weeks. Then we can compare the qbs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I use the Bouagnon/Huff analogy just because it fits the Fundementals over upside argument that Carey follows. He will always take the practical - do it right in practice - limit mistakes - over the home run hitter who maybe Has a few lapses mentally. Carey is a Graham/Bouagnon type guy.
You're not wrong, but don't you think the vast majority of coaches would play the guy who looks better in practice?

Santa def has some "gamer" to him. May just be one of those guys who plays better than he practices.

I think it's less of a "how they practiced" but more of the different styles of play. Unless I am missing something you (7) had Santa ahead of Graham till the last practice you saw. Against BC, Carey went into a risk management mode; completely logical if he and his staff thought they could win the game with defense, specialty teams, a solid running and big percentage passes; and again he was so close to being right.
09-10-2017 01:34 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-10-2017 11:35 AM)7 Wrote:  That was the third game Santa has ever played in. I have no problem with him being out there a little bit longer to get more snaps.

Yes, but what happens if Santa gets crunched by Nebraska, then you're relying on a guy who has had zero experience and it's a re-run of last year. As soon as someone gets healthy but may still be rusty, Carey will put that guy in and 2018 starts with the same refrain: "we'll see who establishes himself in spring practice ... or leading up to the opener."
Looking at the rest of the schedule, which game do you think we'll be ahead enough --- or getting clobbered to the point of throwing in the towel -- to get time for a back-up. Eastern Illinois was the game when it was an option as opposed to perhaps being a necessity.
09-10-2017 03:51 PM
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Teamduh Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-10-2017 11:29 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 12:17 AM)Teamduh Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 08:15 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 07:42 PM)7 Wrote:  Santa threw at least one ball at a WRs feet (could have been more), threw a few inaccurate screens and on pass threw a pass where I had literally no idea who it was going to (I think there was miscommunication).

If you're going to try to analyze something don't let your bias get in the way of facts.

Santa was better today than Graham was last week, but don't sit here and say santa didn't throw anything inaccurate because that's not true.

Its more about the passes he made. A couple of big time throws. To Tears and Brown. Graham rarely makes those. Santa seems to have a knack for it, though limited evidence. An analogy would be Graham is Bouagnon and Santa is Huff. It's about the upside. The playmaking, game changing ability.
I fail to see the analogy. Huff is splitting time with Jones instead of being the main man like Joel last year.

I agree, the accurate deep passes for Santa were a huge improvement over last week. Let's hope he can continue this the next 2 weeks. Then we can compare the qbs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I use the Bouagnon/Huff analogy just because it fits the Fundementals over upside argument that Carey follows. He will always take the practical - do it right in practice - limit mistakes - over the home run hitter who maybe Has a few lapses mentally. Carey is a Graham/Bouagnon type guy.
Ok. Thanks for explaining. That makes sense.

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09-10-2017 10:46 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Online
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Post: #34
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-10-2017 10:46 PM)Teamduh Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 11:29 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 12:17 AM)Teamduh Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 08:15 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 07:42 PM)7 Wrote:  Santa threw at least one ball at a WRs feet (could have been more), threw a few inaccurate screens and on pass threw a pass where I had literally no idea who it was going to (I think there was miscommunication).

If you're going to try to analyze something don't let your bias get in the way of facts.

Santa was better today than Graham was last week, but don't sit here and say santa didn't throw anything inaccurate because that's not true.

Its more about the passes he made. A couple of big time throws. To Tears and Brown. Graham rarely makes those. Santa seems to have a knack for it, though limited evidence. An analogy would be Graham is Bouagnon and Santa is Huff. It's about the upside. The playmaking, game changing ability.
I fail to see the analogy. Huff is splitting time with Jones instead of being the main man like Joel last year.

I agree, the accurate deep passes for Santa were a huge improvement over last week. Let's hope he can continue this the next 2 weeks. Then we can compare the qbs.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I use the Bouagnon/Huff analogy just because it fits the Fundementals over upside argument that Carey follows. He will always take the practical - do it right in practice - limit mistakes - over the home run hitter who maybe Has a few lapses mentally. Carey is a Graham/Bouagnon type guy.
Ok. Thanks for explaining. That makes sense.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

And add class standing to that, Graham has more years of service and that counts as much or more to Carey than talent.
09-11-2017 12:12 AM
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shack66 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Santa v. Graham
I think a few of the missed santa throws were purposely thrown because of coverage. One bubble I remember yelling NOOOOOO when he released it and relieved when it was overthrown. I'm sure the same can be said on some of Grahams throws, but some of the wide open receivers that graham missed by a mile were inexcusable. The one play where santa saw the coverage and tried to force it in anyway was very bad on his part and resulted in the pic. The biggest thing I noticed was the coaching that Carey did on the sideline when mistakes were made. you could see him go to the player and put his arm around him and coach him up. He did this all day.

Santa's deep ball is the big difference maker out of the two. I also think we ran less QB run plays which is weird since BC was the better run defence?
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2017 02:04 PM by shack66.)
09-11-2017 02:02 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Online
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Post: #36
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-11-2017 02:02 PM)shack66 Wrote:  I think a few of the missed santa throws were purposely thrown because of coverage. One bubble I remember yelling NOOOOOO when he released it and relieved when it was overthrown. I'm sure the same can be said on some of Grahams throws, but some of the wide open receivers that graham missed by a mile were inexcusable. The one play where santa saw the coverage and tried to force it in anyway was very bad on his part and resulted in the pic. The biggest thing I noticed was the coaching that Carey did on the sideline when mistakes were made. you could see him go to the player and put his arm around him and coach him up. He did this all day.

Santa's deep ball is the big difference maker out of the two. I also think we ran less QB run plays which is weird since BC was the better run defence?

I don't think NIU will be able to run the bubble screen with Santa against a better defense than EIU. He is extremely slow with that pass.
09-11-2017 02:14 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Online
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Post: #37
RE: Santa v. Graham
And I am really afraid Childers will end up transferring. He has the highest ceiling of any QB on the roster, and I really really really hope we do not lose him.
09-11-2017 02:40 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Santa v. Graham
Santa was still playing at the beginning of the 4th quarter, then EIU had the ball for a while, which is why Childers didn't come in until a little later in the 4th quarter. I didn't have a problem with Santa getting one drive in the 4th quarter.

Huff with 7 ypc spread over 3 years makes it quite puzzling that he's on the bench half the time. Especially this year since he blocks better, and he also catches the ball - though Jones did well and is a good change of pace. Though I shouldn't be surprised since our best QB last year got moved to WR. And I'm sure we'll find out that Santa is a better game player than Graham. But then, I'm willing to accept an occasional bad play in order to let a player play the game without getting too tight worrying about making one mistake. Even the best QBs make mistakes occasionally. You can't let that shut down your offense and curl up into a fetal position and hope that the defense can shut out your opponent.
09-11-2017 08:01 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-11-2017 02:14 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 02:02 PM)shack66 Wrote:  I think a few of the missed santa throws were purposely thrown because of coverage. One bubble I remember yelling NOOOOOO when he released it and relieved when it was overthrown. I'm sure the same can be said on some of Grahams throws, but some of the wide open receivers that graham missed by a mile were inexcusable. The one play where santa saw the coverage and tried to force it in anyway was very bad on his part and resulted in the pic. The biggest thing I noticed was the coaching that Carey did on the sideline when mistakes were made. you could see him go to the player and put his arm around him and coach him up. He did this all day.

Santa's deep ball is the big difference maker out of the two. I also think we ran less QB run plays which is weird since BC was the better run defence?

I don't think NIU will be able to run the bubble screen with Santa against a better defense than EIU. He is extremely slow with that pass.

I re-watched the first half of the game - he had some pretty nice short screen passes in the first half. And I think it's something he will likely improve on.
09-11-2017 08:04 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Online
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Post: #40
RE: Santa v. Graham
(09-11-2017 08:04 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 02:14 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(09-11-2017 02:02 PM)shack66 Wrote:  I think a few of the missed santa throws were purposely thrown because of coverage. One bubble I remember yelling NOOOOOO when he released it and relieved when it was overthrown. I'm sure the same can be said on some of Grahams throws, but some of the wide open receivers that graham missed by a mile were inexcusable. The one play where santa saw the coverage and tried to force it in anyway was very bad on his part and resulted in the pic. The biggest thing I noticed was the coaching that Carey did on the sideline when mistakes were made. you could see him go to the player and put his arm around him and coach him up. He did this all day.

Santa's deep ball is the big difference maker out of the two. I also think we ran less QB run plays which is weird since BC was the better run defence?

I don't think NIU will be able to run the bubble screen with Santa against a better defense than EIU. He is extremely slow with that pass.

I re-watched the first half of the game - he had some pretty nice short screen passes in the first half. And I think it's something he will likely improve on.

I hope so , its just that fraction of a second too long it seems like to me. Didn't really come back to hurt them much against EIU, but against a faster defense, I fear it could be an ugly play and very turnover prone
09-11-2017 08:07 PM
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