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Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
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BigOwensboroCard Online
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Post: #31
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
Well two things are of certain facts I assure you. 1 being FSU and Coach Bobby Bowden didn't Like the idea of giving up his national schedule to play the likes of Louisville, and Cincinnati etc. 2 Louisville and Denny Crum didn't want to lose out on all the money they had made in credits that were to be reimbursed for once they left that money goes away. So those two reason there are fact and you can ask anyone. I do think if the Metro could have become a FB conference with the like of everyone that was mentioned along with Penn State they would be right up there with the SEC and BigTen in making money etc.
09-10-2017 08:19 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 08:19 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  Well two things are of certain facts I assure you. 1 being FSU and Coach Bobby Bowden didn't Like the idea of giving up his national schedule to play the likes of Louisville, and Cincinnati etc. 2 Louisville and Denny Crum didn't want to lose out on all the money they had made in credits that were to be reimbursed for once they left that money goes away. So those two reason there are fact and you can ask anyone. I do think if the Metro could have become a FB conference with the like of everyone that was mentioned along with Penn State they would be right up there with the SEC and BigTen in making money etc.

I agree with those two points, as well. FSU and Louisville were unhappy with various revenue aspects, for different reasons, and the Super Metro never became a reality, and schools went several different directions.
09-10-2017 09:16 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-09-2017 09:11 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  About the same time, UAB was leaving a dying Sun Belt, one that ironically was saved by a merger with the American South Conference, which included former member New Orleans. The Sun Belt also lost UNCC, VCU, ODU, and USF in 1991; all but ODU went to the Metro.

DePaul was independent, so obviously joining a conference, especially one with good basketball programs was right up their alley.

I'm not sure what prompted Marquette and Saint Louis to leave the MCC (now the Horizon League), as the MCC only had nine schools during their tenure.

Cincinnati and Memphis leaving the Metro for the Great Midwest looks puzzling in hindsight, as it did nothing for their football programs, which remained independent. I guess as in the case of Saint Louis and Marquette, it improved their ability to access the NCAA tournament, but that probably could have been accomplished by the Metro re-adding Saint Louis, and adding Marquette.

Had the mass exodus not occurred out of the Sun Belt, this might have been the Metro in 1991:

Louisville
Virginia Tech
Tulane
Southern Miss
Cincinnati (never joined Great Midwest)
Memphis (never joined Great Midwest)
DePaul
Marquette
Saint Louis

Houston would have likely still joined the Metro in 1996 after the Southwest Conference disbanded, giving the Metro seven members for football. Eventually East Carolina (initially football only), South Florida, TCU, UAB, and Army (football only) get added. Virginia Tech still leaves for the Big East.

If the American South could have survived to 2000, it likely takes in the remnants of Big West football, until the WAC adds Idaho, New Mexico State, and Utah State in 2005. That move likely forces the Sun Belt/American South merger that happened in 1991. The Sun Belt would have likely lost Charlotte in 2005 to the Atlantic 10 along with Saint Louis of the Metro.

How was the "Sun Belt dying"?
No one had left other than New Orleans and Georgia State.

Without the Great Midwest forming, the Metro wouldn't have raided.
09-10-2017 10:05 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 10:55 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 10:30 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 10:06 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 09:54 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 08:26 AM)58-56 Wrote:  Gene Bartow's frustration with the Sun Belt.

The old Sun Belt (only South Alabama is still there) was a very good basketball conference in those days, putting two or three teams in what was then a smaller NCAA field every year (UAB, ODU, VCU, WKU were all good). They had a CBS (real over-the-air CBS) game of the week, and a UAB dancer (my ex) was the opening shot for their pre-game show before every NCAA game. But some programs made what Gene considered no effort, and others did not want to make the investments to step up the conference.

Gene was tight with Ray Meyer at DePaul, and they hatched the plan. Gene was also revered in Memphis. He was the glue holding together seemingly very different institutions. He believed the conference needed DePaul (still a national program then), Louisville and Notre Dame to succeed, or at least two of the three.

So the SBC had an OTA CBS game of the week? How did they manage to score something like that?

Because back then the Sun Belt was a serious basketball league. UAB went to the NCAAs for 7 straight years in the 80s, Western KEntucky went 4 times in the 80s, UNCC had gone to the Sweet 16 in 1977, VCU went 5 years out of 6 (with Charles Oakley).

What years did they have the deal? Was the SBC formed with the CBS OTA or did it come after a few years?

Wait, I just read closely and noticed we're talking about a Sun Belt "game of the week". That sounds off-base, to me. This was also (mostly) before the Supreme Court case breaking the NCAA monopoly on TV games in football, so I really doubt that there was a Sun Belt OTA national game every week.

I read it as Sun Belt having a handful of games a year on CBS. That I totally buy--Sun Belt was one of the top 10 leagues, and I suspect everyone was still operating under the NCAA TV rules that limited your appearances per year in football. So logically, if I'm CBS, I fill my slate with ACC, Big EAst, Big Ten, KAnsas, KEntucky and UCLA games, and then start moving down the food chain to Metro, Sun Belt, SWC, lesser SEC, Pac-10, Big 8 games, etc.

EDIT: Maybe it was a syndicated Sun Belt game-of-the-week than ran on the CBS station in Birmingham?

Basketball game. There was no NCAA TV contract for hoops.
09-10-2017 10:09 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
The thing about the Super Metro is by rejecting it, Louisville actually hurt their aspirations in the short-term.
No Florida State and South Carolina were not going to be part of the Super Metro as soon as they had choices.
BUT the Big East wasn't enthusiastic about adding football and stayed out of it all until the Super Metro talks collapsed.

Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU, Memphis and Tulane would have been in the Bowl Coalition, Bowl Alliance and then the BCS.
Big East would likely have evolved into something like what it is now 10 or 15 years sooner.
09-10-2017 10:21 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 10:21 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The thing about the Super Metro is by rejecting it, Louisville actually hurt their aspirations in the short-term.
No Florida State and South Carolina were not going to be part of the Super Metro as soon as they had choices.
BUT the Big East wasn't enthusiastic about adding football and stayed out of it all until the Super Metro talks collapsed.

Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU, Memphis and Tulane would have been in the Bowl Coalition, Bowl Alliance and then the BCS.
Big East would likely have evolved into something like what it is now 10 or 15 years sooner.

Super metro could have likely gotten the Big East members to be football only affiliates. I believe you only needed 6 full members back then not the 8 you have to have now
09-10-2017 10:40 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 10:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Super metro could have likely gotten the Big East members to be football only affiliates. I believe you only needed 6 full members back then not the 8 you have to have now

That's what was supposed to happen. The Memphis Commercial Appeal even had an article noting that Memphis and Louisville were going to only play once per year in hoops due to the North/South divisions. The three Big East schools (Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse) were going to be indeed be football-only in the Super Metro.

The Metro (then 8) would be going to 12 via adding Miami and three then A-10 schools (Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia). East Carolina was going to be football-only with other sports remaining in the CAA. For non-football, it listed the following:
North: Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Cincinnati, Louisville
South: Tulane, Southern Miss, Florida State, Miami, Memphis, South Carolina

Of course, it would not have lasted very long.
09-10-2017 11:18 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 11:18 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 10:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Super metro could have likely gotten the Big East members to be football only affiliates. I believe you only needed 6 full members back then not the 8 you have to have now

That's what was supposed to happen. The Memphis Commercial Appeal even had an article noting that Memphis and Louisville were going to only play once per year in hoops due to the North/South divisions. The three Big East schools (Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse) were going to be indeed be football-only in the Super Metro.

The Metro (then 8) would be going to 12 via adding Miami and three then A-10 schools (Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia). East Carolina was going to be football-only with other sports remaining in the CAA. For non-football, it listed the following:
North: Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Cincinnati, Louisville
South: Tulane, Southern Miss, Florida State, Miami, Memphis, South Carolina

Of course, it would not have lasted very long.

Who knows? If FSU and Miami stayed in with Virginia Tech, West Virginia and other Southern schools, it could have lasted. Miami might not have had the same frustrations with the Metro that it had with the Big East. Other than Rutgers, Temple and Cincinnati, it's a southern conference.
09-11-2017 08:22 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-09-2017 08:26 AM)58-56 Wrote:  Gene was tight with Ray Meyer at DePaul, and they hatched the plan. Gene was also revered in Memphis. He was the glue holding together seemingly very different institutions. He believed the conference needed DePaul (still a national program then), Louisville and Notre Dame to succeed, or at least two of the three.

Many feuds with Louisville began in those talks. Louisville wanted a double share. The Great Midwest-Metro merger talks that formed CUSA1.0 were pretty nasty too (Lousiville tried again for a double share, and insisted on kicking out VCU and VaTech; UAB too but they lost on that one). Yes, once upon a time CUSA paid VaTech and VCU to go away. Nothing is constant except change.

This isn't true. UAB was a late, and somewhat surprising addition, to the GMC. Around 1990-91, Marquette, DePaul, and ND started working with UC, UL and Memphis to form a new conference. DePaul and ND realized they needed a men's bball conference and MU was pretty unhappy in the MCC. ND was in the MCC for all sports but football and men's basketball. In addition, MU and ND's women's sports all were in the North Star Conference together in the mid-80s. It was Al McGuire who used to say that you needed 3 out of 4 (MU, ND, DePaul and Louisville) to have a successful, major midwestern based conference.

ND and UL backed out, so they were replaced by SLU and UAB. There were months and months of speculation in the local media about the formation of the conference with ND and UL being members. It was a pretty big surprise that it didn't happen. Of course, ND eventually went on to join the BE in 1995. Later did I learn that from MU's AD that MU was anticipating joining the BE with the football schools in 1991, but St. John's did a last minute flip-flop. But, that is another story.

When ND backed out, Louisville decided to stay in the Metro. No proof, but the rumor was that UL thought it's program was better off dominating a conference like UNLV was doing in the Big West versus joining the GMC. There were other rumors about UC and UM cutting out UL, who they regarded as a pain in the butt. (CUSA did threaten to kick UL out in the late 90s, so there is some basis for this rumor.) In any event Dayton was later added at the request of MU and DePaul. MU, Dayton and DePaul (along with ND) had played home-home series throughout the 80s. So, I think MU and DePaul felt a sense of loyalty to Dayton. However, adding Dayton was huge mistake, as their program was completely overwhelmed in the GMC. So much so, that they were the only GMC left out when CUSA was formed.
09-11-2017 10:34 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Why did the Great Midwest Conference form?
(09-10-2017 11:18 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  
(09-10-2017 10:40 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Super metro could have likely gotten the Big East members to be football only affiliates. I believe you only needed 6 full members back then not the 8 you have to have now

That's what was supposed to happen. The Memphis Commercial Appeal even had an article noting that Memphis and Louisville were going to only play once per year in hoops due to the North/South divisions. The three Big East schools (Boston College, Pitt, Syracuse) were going to be indeed be football-only in the Super Metro.

The Metro (then 8) would be going to 12 via adding Miami and three then A-10 schools (Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia). East Carolina was going to be football-only with other sports remaining in the CAA. For non-football, it listed the following:
North: Rutgers, Temple, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Cincinnati, Louisville
South: Tulane, Southern Miss, Florida State, Miami, Memphis, South Carolina

Of course, it would not have lasted very long.

Early renditions included Penn State instead of whom I assume to be East Carolina. My guess is then Virginia Tech would have been in the South.
09-11-2017 01:55 PM
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