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Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:17 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 09:01 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I always thought the rule that does not allow players to transfer and start is absolute BS. I mean look at the running backs on the USC roster.

Ronald Jones II - 4 star (2015) #1 (Starter)
Aca'Cedric Ware - 4 star (2015)
Dominic Davis - 4 star (2015)
Vavae Malepeai - 4 star (2016) #3 (Backup)
Stephen Carr - 4 star (2017) #2 (Starter)

Davis and Ware are both true 4 star Juniors who have a good amount of playing time over their three years playing. I think it's unfair that guys like these don't have the option to look somewhere else their senior year. They could be starting at a lot of schools but they are sitting on the bench and getting trash time carries.

They can transfer---and often do, there is a penalty, but it doesn't affect thier education---just thier playing time.

He is a social sciences major at one of the best schools in the country right now. He could theoretically transfer to somewhere like say Liberty University his senior year. Take financial aid, be the starting RB, graduate college, and have a shot at the NFL. But he would not be allowed to do that because the NCAA's bogus rules that remove the students choice of what to do with their life.

What the NCAA is doing right now is costing these kids their dream & potential career.
09-06-2017 11:24 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

"Normal" students that can freely transfer to any school pay thier own way. They don't get all thier expenses paid. 04-cheers

Non-athletes who are receiving scholarships are already free to transfer with no restrictions on what they do at their new school.

Let's say we have a talented violinist attending Cal on a scholarship given to excellent musicians. He plays in university orchestras, string quartets, whatever ensembles the university wants him to perform in. Then let's say he decides he wants to transfer. Maybe he has a girlfriend at UCLA, maybe he's from Florida and he's homesick, or maybe a school in Boston offers him better musical opportunities. Any reason or no reason. Can he transfer and perform right away at his new school with no restrictions? Of course he can.

That depends on the type of scholarship. If it is a national scholarship then that academic schollie can go to other schools. But if it is a scholarship direct from the school, then that is a different story, they can have restrictions on students transferring to another school. Cal isn't going to pay for a transfer that decides Stanford is the better college for him or her.
09-06-2017 11:39 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is pretty serious as it literally means the end of G5 football as we know it.

No, the sky is not falling. Each transfer to or from a big-name program will be breathlessly hyped by the media ("Wow! LSU replaced last year's star linebacker with a guy who looked really good at Memphis last year!" or "Can this former USC 5-star QB lead Hawai'i to the Mountain West title?"), but the number of transfers that actually damage a program won't be nearly as great as you think.

People thought one-and-done would be the end of college basketball. It wasn't. Players can leave for the NBA after a year, and the sport still goes on, still sells tickets, still rakes in booster donations and TV money. And if players can leave a football team after a year for a different college football team, or if the NFL ever allows college players to enter the draft after one year, that won't be the end of the world either.

Its a little different for football where the G5 already are working with the disadvantage of having no real access to the playoff. Star players at the G5 level will be one and dones--opting for a chance at stardom on a P5 squad with real playoff access. The star G5 players will migrate to the P5 (just as the 5-star high schools players do now). Good luck for any G5 hanging on to a star QB. In a few years, the G5 will be no more competitive vs the P5 than FCS as P5 coaches will essentially get mulligans on kids they overlooked in high school. That said, I think the mid-level and lower-level P5 schools would likely see their stars leave for the Bama's and Ohio State's of the world. So, they might be as opposed to such a system as the G5 schools.
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 11:57 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-06-2017 11:52 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is pretty serious as it literally means the end of G5 football as we know it.

No, the sky is not falling. Each transfer to or from a big-name program will be breathlessly hyped by the media ("Wow! LSU replaced last year's star linebacker with a guy who looked really good at Memphis last year!" or "Can this former USC 5-star QB lead Hawai'i to the Mountain West title?"), but the number of transfers that actually damage a program won't be nearly as great as you think.

People thought one-and-done would be the end of college basketball. It wasn't. Players can leave for the NBA after a year, and the sport still goes on, still sells tickets, still rakes in booster donations and TV money. And if players can leave a football team after a year for a different college football team, or if the NFL ever allows college players to enter the draft after one year, that won't be the end of the world either.

^^ This so much.

It will be a good thing for the G5 and that's why there has been so much resistance to it. The situations where exceptionally great G5 players go to P5 schools will be very rare. You could see instances like that projected first round Wyoming QB transferring to Florida who was having a QB problems.

Players who take advantage of this will be the guys who starter quality but are not getting starting time. Like the USC example I used above, all of our running backs are 4 star recruits or above. Only three of them should get carries. But four of them are getting carries just because they are on the team. And the fifth is just literally not getting any carries.

Why is he not allowed to go play somewhere else if he wants to?
09-06-2017 11:53 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

The athletes are compensated. They are compensated with free tuition, room and board, books, utilities, and now additional monies for the " full cost of attendance".

At Pitt, for an out of state student that is worth 200-250K depending on whether they stay 4 or 5 years.

The reason the players do not get more is Title 9. the purest form of Socialism in America. The producers in the revenue sports are paying for the rest of the athletes competing in non-revenue sports. That is the law of the land.
09-06-2017 11:58 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:53 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  It will be a good thing for the G5 and that's why there has been so much resistance to it. The situations where exceptionally great G5 players go to P5 schools will be very rare. You could see instances like that projected first round Wyoming QB transferring to Florida who was having a QB problems.

IMO, this is an example of a potential transfer that WON'T happen as often as people might think. Josh Allen, the Wyoming QB, is already being told he will be one of the first players chosen in next year's NFL draft. Is his ambition to be the starting QB at Florida? Hell no. His ambition is to be a starting QB in the NFL. He is already in a situation where that opportunity is in front of him. Switching to Florida probably can't help his NFL standing and could only hurt it.

(09-06-2017 11:53 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Players who take advantage of this will be the guys who starter quality but are not getting starting time. Like the USC example I used above, all of our running backs are 4 star recruits or above. Only three of them should get carries. But four of them are getting carries just because they are on the team. And the fifth is just literally not getting any carries.

Why is he not allowed to go play somewhere else if he wants to?

Exactly. A player who is not getting playing time should be able to go elsewhere and get that playing time without having to sit out a year, because, among other things, there will be more transfer opportunities available to him if his new school can put him on the field right away. A college athlete shouldn't be shackled to the decision he made as a high school senior just because the coaches at USC (or Alabama, or Ohio State, or wherever) want to have a massive amount of depth "just in case" something happens to the starters.
09-06-2017 12:07 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 11:53 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 11:14 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 10:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is pretty serious as it literally means the end of G5 football as we know it.

No, the sky is not falling. Each transfer to or from a big-name program will be breathlessly hyped by the media ("Wow! LSU replaced last year's star linebacker with a guy who looked really good at Memphis last year!" or "Can this former USC 5-star QB lead Hawai'i to the Mountain West title?"), but the number of transfers that actually damage a program won't be nearly as great as you think.

People thought one-and-done would be the end of college basketball. It wasn't. Players can leave for the NBA after a year, and the sport still goes on, still sells tickets, still rakes in booster donations and TV money. And if players can leave a football team after a year for a different college football team, or if the NFL ever allows college players to enter the draft after one year, that won't be the end of the world either.

^^ This so much.

It will be a good thing for the G5 and that's why there has been so much resistance to it. The situations where exceptionally great G5 players go to P5 schools will be very rare. You could see instances like that projected first round Wyoming QB transferring to Florida who was having a QB problems.

Players who take advantage of this will be the guys who starter quality but are not getting starting time. Like the USC example I used above, all of our running backs are 4 star recruits or above. Only three of them should get carries. But four of them are getting carries just because they are on the team. And the fifth is just literally not getting any carries.

Why is he not allowed to go play somewhere else if he wants to?

Agreed. This is a great balancing move and will be good for the G5. Right now, the biggest abuses are P5 schools who don't want to let go someone who is not getting much playing time. G5 schools will benefit. There aren't many who will move from a school where they are doing great to an uncertain future just because it is a P5 school unless there are personal reasons.

And the rules really should be to treat the student-athletes much as other students would be. That means they get to move whenever they want.
09-06-2017 02:23 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
This will hurt FCS schools who rely on transfers more than anybody.
09-06-2017 02:40 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
I don't think it can be used as a farm system in every sense, though. I know when PJ left WMU, by rule, he couldn't talk to anyone on the team. You had to Leave first. Of course, that's just the HC.

In the end though, it will only hurt the G5s. But I think they Key will be -- a star non-QB player on a 5-7 G5 team getting no press, going to a 6-6/7-5 P5 team that will.

However, another thought is G5->G5. Say you have a G5 team with two good QBs. One QB eeks out the starting role and does reasonably well, but the other feels like he's not going to get another chance while in Spring Ball. F'it. I'm going to the rival college in the same conference, to start against you this upcoming year. It's more a motivator.
09-06-2017 02:44 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
No. I love the constant overreactions of doom every time something changes. As a fan of a G5, we get a lot of transfers from "P5" schools who either sit a year or go JC for a year. There are not enough starting roster spots to keep everyone happy at a "P5" school and making it easier to transfer will open the gates in that direction as well. The only people hurt by this are the fans who enjoy seeing a large pat of each recruiting class play together for 4 years or so.
09-06-2017 02:48 PM
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