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Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 08:55 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

Wouldn't a better compromise be allowing instant transfers to student-athletes of programs whose coach leaves? Or if a program is put on probation for past sins, allowing those players a one-time exception to transfer freely?

Or what about providing guaranteed four-year scholarships (only a few programs, to my knowledge provide this)? That would make it acceptable to sitting out a year, if one decides to transfer, no?

I just think there are better compromises than allowing unlimited transfer capabilities. Ever offseason would be free agency and cause more uncertainty (for players and programs than ever before).

I understand the argument, but I think the NCAA seems to have determined (in a rare moment of wisdom for that organization) that the exceptions are so difficult to list and examine that they're better off simply allowing a broad transfer right. For instance, is a coach leaving on his own for another program going to be treated the same as a school firing that coach? How bad of a probation does it need to be to allow for a transfer?

Plus, the NCAA and colleges already know that they're in a VERY tenuous legal situation with respect to player compensation. This is going to drive all of the NCAA decisions regarding student-athletes going forward. One of the key factors of determining a legal employer-employee relationship (regardless of what a contract might state on paper) is whether there are restrictions on moving elsewhere, so the NCAA is mitigating its potential liability on that front. Giving a chit to the players in the form of transferability freedom is a small price to pay to keep the open walking antitrust violation of the NCAA alive a little longer.
09-06-2017 09:58 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 09:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

They're amateurs...

Hah! You and I know that's not true (albeit we seem to come on different sides of how that should be handled).
09-06-2017 09:59 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
Have to decide whether we want to keep pretending these athletes are just like every other college student, or whether they should be compensated at whatever rate the market will pay.

If they are paid, then you can keep them from playing for a competitor until the end of a contract, just like ABC can keep Jimmy Kimmel from starting a new show at another network until his contract ends.

If the athletes are just college students playing a sport for free, then they can transfer to another school and participate right away, just like any other college student.
09-06-2017 10:15 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

"Normal" students that can freely transfer to any school pay thier own way. They don't get all thier expenses paid. 04-cheers
09-06-2017 10:15 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 09:01 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I always thought the rule that does not allow players to transfer and start is absolute BS. I mean look at the running backs on the USC roster.

Ronald Jones II - 4 star (2015) #1 (Starter)
Aca'Cedric Ware - 4 star (2015)
Dominic Davis - 4 star (2015)
Vavae Malepeai - 4 star (2016) #3 (Backup)
Stephen Carr - 4 star (2017) #2 (Starter)

Davis and Ware are both true 4 star Juniors who have a good amount of playing time over their three years playing. I think it's unfair that guys like these don't have the option to look somewhere else their senior year. They could be starting at a lot of schools but they are sitting on the bench and getting trash time carries.

They can transfer---and often do, there is a penalty, but it doesn't affect thier education---just thier playing time.
09-06-2017 10:17 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

"Normal" students that can freely transfer to any school pay thier own way. They don't get all thier expenses paid. 04-cheers

Non-athletes who are receiving scholarships are already free to transfer with no restrictions on what they do at their new school.

Let's say we have a talented violinist attending Cal on a scholarship given to excellent musicians. He plays in university orchestras, string quartets, whatever ensembles the university wants him to perform in. Then let's say he decides he wants to transfer. Maybe he has a girlfriend at UCLA, maybe he's from Florida and he's homesick, or maybe a school in Boston offers him better musical opportunities. Any reason or no reason. Can he transfer and perform right away at his new school with no restrictions? Of course he can.
09-06-2017 10:24 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:15 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Have to decide whether we want to keep pretending these athletes are just like every other college student, or whether they should be compensated at whatever rate the market will pay.

If they are paid, then you can keep them from playing for a competitor until the end of a contract, just like ABC can keep Jimmy Kimmel from starting a new show at another network until his contract ends.

If the athletes are just college students playing a sport for free, then they can transfer to another school and participate right away, just like any other college student.

Maybe the answer is the scholarship itself. Allow 2 types of scholarships. One year or 4-year. Four year scholarships are guaranteed and the player is there unless dismissed for cause, but current transfer rules apply. One year scholarships get the easy transfer rule but the scholarship is a one year renewable. If your performance doesn't pan out, your scholarship may not be renewed. There would be no 25 player per year limit, but the 85 player limit total team cap would remain. Essentially, when you sign out of college you can decide whether you want to keep your options open or if you want to lock in an education. Schools can control thier future by only offering 4 year scholarships if they don't want to deal with widespread transfer issues.

This is pretty serious as it literally means the end of G5 football as we know it. It will no longer be competitive on the field vs the P5. At that point, a new division will occur since it will essentially be the new FCS. If that's a rule passes, then that's the time you will see an anti-trust suit against the CFP and autonomous schools as there will be little to lose for the G5. The only way to stay competitive would be for the G5 to have reasonably viable access to the playoff (which doesn't exist for them right now).
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 10:51 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-06-2017 10:26 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 09:59 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 09:04 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

They're amateurs...

Hah! You and I know that's not true (albeit we seem to come on different sides of how that should be handled).

That is why the NFL - warts and all - is a cleaner and more honest sport than college football.
09-06-2017 10:52 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-06-2017 08:26 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Good. With the existing restraints on trade with players receiving no compensation and having to sign a non-negotiable LOI without the assistance of an agent, the least that the NCAA can do is to allow them the freedom of movement that other "normal" students have (much less the coaches that can leave for greener pastures whenever they want). A lot of these threads end up focusing on the impact on programs, but the students are the ones that had little to no negotiating power. The parameters seem reasonable with the GPA requirement and the 1-year sitout rule still applying to someone transferring a second time (to clamp down on the potential "serial" transfers). College sports are full of hypocrisies, but students being restricted to transfer while the coaches that recruited them could move freely for better jobs has always been one of the most glaring examples of college sports hypocrisy of them all.

"Normal" students that can freely transfer to any school pay thier own way. They don't get all thier expenses paid. 04-cheers

An athletic scholarship is no different than an academic scholarship. They are both merit based and dependent on something the student has worked very hard to achieve. No one is writing an athlete a check and saying here is your college have it it! $$$

FYI student-athletes who are not on scholarship still must follow the same rules.
09-06-2017 11:09 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Potentially The End Of G5 Football As We Know It
(09-06-2017 10:26 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  This is pretty serious as it literally means the end of G5 football as we know it.

No, the sky is not falling. Each transfer to or from a big-name program will be breathlessly hyped by the media ("Wow! LSU replaced last year's star linebacker with a guy who looked really good at Memphis last year!" or "Can this former USC 5-star QB lead Hawai'i to the Mountain West title?"), but the number of transfers that actually damage a program won't be nearly as great as you think.

People thought one-and-done would be the end of college basketball. It wasn't. Players can leave for the NBA after a year, and the sport still goes on, still sells tickets, still rakes in booster donations and TV money. And if players can leave a football team after a year for a different college football team, or if the NFL ever allows college players to enter the draft after one year, that won't be the end of the world either.
09-06-2017 11:14 AM
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