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thats what we could not have sold or accomidated in the 30,000 OCS Bryant & Co would not allow us to build. Up until two days ago I thought the 50,000 seat proposed uptown stadium was too big for UAB. Now I think its just right. If Bryant had allowed the stadium we would have a hard cap of 27-30k without the massive corporate support we now enjoy. I will never forgive them for what they did but by striking us down we became more powerfull than they could have ever imagined.

Hate to rain on the parade but don't expect 45k for every game.

It seems to have turned out that Dr Joe Volker knew what he was talking about when he warned of thinking and dreaming too small. Will "just right" 40,000 to 45,000 for 2017 be "just right" a decade from now?

(09-04-2017 01:33 PM)bladhmadh Wrote:  thats what we could not have sold or accomidated in the 30,000 OCS Bryant & Co would not allow us to build. Up until two days ago I thought the 50,000 seat proposed uptown stadium was too big for UAB. Now I think its just right. If Bryant had allowed the stadium we would have a hard cap of 27-30k without the massive corporate support we now enjoy. I will never forgive them for what they did but by striking us down we became more powerfull than they could have ever imagined.

The on campus stadium was designed for easy expansion when/if needed. I know that raising the funds to do that wouldn't be easy. But, I think UAB is a ways from averaging 45,000 week in and week out. I would love to have an on campus stadium of 27 to 30,000.

(09-04-2017 02:09 PM)BlazintheATL Wrote:  Hate to rain on the parade but don't expect 45k for every game.

You are not raining on anyone's parade because nobody does including him. That said we would have had three games in 2014 over the original designed capacity.

The point is that 50 or 55K is big enough for the once a year type of crowd that is from 27,000 to ...well 45,212. yet small enough that 25,000 looks like a great crowd and does not get lost. It still allows for the big game crowd. You are not leaving revenue on the table and still have a great looking crowd even if it is half full.

That's the point. No one thinks we will have 45,000 week in and week out. :-/

Yes the original design had expansion in mind.

We'll host a conference title game at Legion before we play in a downtown stadium. Have to lose the tarps for the 60,000+.

(09-04-2017 03:24 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  That's the point. No one thinks we will have 45,000 week in and week out. :-/

I'm not ready to say that. This (The Return) is a truly unique (once in a lifetime anywhere) marketing opportunity. The right campaign could turn out 45K every week.

We won't have that, of course. Even when they're not actively trying to throw sand in the gears, the Ingram crew has zero imagination. There are some good building blocks: they had people doing actual retail-level sales, relentlessly calling individuals to get those season tickets sold. It was the first time I ever felt my business was wanted in Bartow East.

Combine that effort with some actual creativity and I do believe UAB could have great crowds every week coming out to see UAB regardless of opponent.

Ingram's not bright, plus he's from the SEC, where it's all a pull market. He has no clue that there's even a difference. You don't have to be a marketing genius to run a well-marketed firm, but you do need to know enough to hire and direct someone who is. He doesn't, and never will.

(09-04-2017 04:31 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 03:24 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  That's the point. No one thinks we will have 45,000 week in and week out. :-/

I'm not ready to say that. This (The Return) is a truly unique (once in a lifetime anywhere) marketing opportunity. The right campaign could turn out 45K every week.

We won't have that, of course. Even when they're not actively trying to throw sand in the gears, the Ingram crew has zero imagination. There are some good building blocks: they had people doing actual retail-level sales, relentlessly calling individuals to get those season tickets sold. It was the first time I ever felt my business was wanted in Bartow East.

Combine that effort with some actual creativity and I do believe UAB could have great crowds every week coming out to see UAB regardless of opponent.

Ingram's not bright, plus he's from the SEC, where it's all a pull market. He has no clue that there's even a difference. You don't have to be a marketing genius to run a well-marketed firm, but you do need to know enough to hire and direct someone who is. He doesn't, and never will.

If this was year 4 of the most successful era in football history, I believe we could have come close to the crowd we had Saturday. FU Ray Watts. What could have been.

I'm more concerned with getting something they can't take away. The pavilion was step one. (Most wanted an IPF). The size of the stadium doesn't matter as long as we have one. Saturday would have brought calls for expansion. Especially in luxury suites.

With Fess, Espy, & Cubby Bear's total control of things we could not have gotten anything done.
It took them pushing & exceeding the limit to change things.
The football foundation now can tell Fess how high to jump & when.

Mark & Ray are still useless but we can make their life hell while they are still around.

As long as Mark & Ray continue with their reasoning for the ending of football, we shall continue with our watchful eye on the both of them.

Be careful, it's not going to be 45,000 every weekend. You can easily fall into the trap of "well let's build the dome!" and we end up with a 75,000 seat cavern that will be miserable (it's already happening, see bamaandseatcertificatefan's post above) or you will get us stuck in a trap of not building anything while we wait to get the "perfect" one

What's on the planning sheets now, expandable, should continue to be the goal. Let's try not to trip over one weekend and screw it all up

We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

(09-05-2017 12:40 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

The population of the Atlanta MSA is 5.7 million. Birmingham has 1.1

(09-05-2017 12:40 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

Birmingham will never have two season opening AP top 25 games in the same weekend, in a trillion years, so I have no clue why the Chik Fil A kickoff games have anything to do with what facility Birmingham should build.

(09-05-2017 05:52 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:40 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

Birmingham will never have two season opening AP top 25 games in the same weekend, in a trillion years, so I have no clue why the Chik Fil A kickoff games have anything to do with what facility Birmingham should build.

You throw around "never" a lot. As if things can't ever change. 40 years ago UAB would "never" have a football team; 30 years ago Nashville and Charlotte would "never" NFL teams and as late as 15 years ago Oklahoma City would "never" attract a professional team after passing their version of MAPS. Funny how those things happened?

It's a good thing you weren't around a hundred plus years ago, or we might still be riding in buckboards on rutted dirt rounds.

(09-05-2017 05:52 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:40 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

Birmingham will never have two season opening AP top 25 games in the same weekend, in a trillion years, so I have no clue why the Chik Fil A kickoff games have anything to do with what facility Birmingham should build.

Do you actually believe that the only reason UAB built that new football facility was because it found some money lying around and found a way to throw it at a building? The first new facility the UAB football program has ever received came about because we finally realized that we were not being successful doing what we had always done.

So after almost 30 years of being below mediocrity, we copied what other more successful programs had been doing all along. We finally "threw some substantial money at the program" and now we hope for improved success. When I asked in another thread what uAB football needed to build next, no one could think of any additional facility we need. REALLY?

I guess as long as Alabama can keep its 1960s era political machine running, it can continue to shrink its economy to match its aspirations as the only southern sunbelt state presently predicted to lose an additional seat in Congress after the 2020 census (down from 9 in 1950 to 6 in 2020). Those who have always controlled the state will continue to have their low state tax levy just as in the past. After all, What does Alabama need with a growing and "uppity acting" B'ham?

(09-06-2017 10:07 AM)blazerjay Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 05:52 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:40 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

Birmingham will never have two season opening AP top 25 games in the same weekend, in a trillion years, so I have no clue why the Chik Fil A kickoff games have anything to do with what facility Birmingham should build.

You throw around "never" a lot. As if things can't ever change. 40 years ago UAB would "never" have a football team; 30 years ago Nashville and Charlotte would "never" NFL teams and as late as 15 years ago Oklahoma City would "never" attract a professional team after passing their version of MAPS. Funny how those things happened?

It's a good thing you weren't around a hundred plus years ago, or we might still be riding in buckboards on rutted dirt rounds.

Yes, the time for Birmingham to make it's move has long passed. All of those other cities have pulled most of the oxygen out of the room. I'm very comfortable in saying Birmingham isn't going to surpass Atlanta in any of our lifetimes, certainly not in the lifetime of a new facility. The "what if" crap that is trying to lead us down the road of building a dome will just result in a sub-par gameday experience for UAB and the SEC Championship game still never coming back to Birmingham.

(09-06-2017 06:33 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 10:07 AM)blazerjay Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 05:52 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 12:40 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  We both agree about "being careful" about expectations for UAB fan support. You say 45,000 is an unreasonable high expectation while I asked if 45,000 should be considered a low expectation for the future decades.

B'ham - the CITY - needs the MPF for its future desire to attract year round events - including sports. UAB does not need the MPF for its football ambitions, but the two are not identical entities. This Labor Day weekend in Atlanta illustrated the disparity between the two cities as the Mercedes-Benz, Wells Fargo, Chick File MPF hosted two nationally ranked football games in 48 hours. Are they shutting it down after this season until next season? I don't think so!

Birmingham will never have two season opening AP top 25 games in the same weekend, in a trillion years, so I have no clue why the Chik Fil A kickoff games have anything to do with what facility Birmingham should build.

You throw around "never" a lot. As if things can't ever change. 40 years ago UAB would "never" have a football team; 30 years ago Nashville and Charlotte would "never" NFL teams and as late as 15 years ago Oklahoma City would "never" attract a professional team after passing their version of MAPS. Funny how those things happened?

It's a good thing you weren't around a hundred plus years ago, or we might still be riding in buckboards on rutted dirt rounds.

Yes, the time for Birmingham to make it's move has long passed. All of those other cities have pulled most of the oxygen out of the room. I'm very comfortable in saying Birmingham isn't going to surpass Atlanta in any of our lifetimes, certainly not in the lifetime of a new facility. The "what if" crap that is trying to lead us down the road of building a dome will just result in a sub-par gameday experience for UAB and the SEC Championship game still never coming back to Birmingham.

You are correct in saying that B'ham "will not surpass Atlanta". It is because Alabama's leaders decided to go the route of fire hoses, vicious dogs and "Bloody Sunday" Trooper riots at the Edmund Pettus Bridge. Georgia put Lester Maddox behind them instead of striving to perpetuate what he stood for. As the current front runner in the Republican Senate race illustrates, Alabama is politically still where it was in the 1960s, fittingly run by its segregationist 1901 Constitution and its 1,000+ amendments.

Atlanta billed itself as a city "too busy to hate." Alabama's leadership still has plenty of time for that destructive emotion. In the 1940s and 1950s, metro B'ham and metro Atlanta had about the same population. Their baseball teams played in the same 2A Southern League. The difference is what the two did after that time to make what we see today. B'ham is in a state that treats it like Paul Bryant, Jr and his cabal treated UAB football -- with the same results. UAB and B'ham have about the same measure of "Home Rule" over its administration.

I give up. Build a dome, it will be the end of UAB football.

(09-06-2017 09:00 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I give up. Build a dome, it will be the end of UAB football.

Building the MPF (Dome if you wish) will not affect UAB football in any major way. It will only affect the ability of B'ham to compete for the larger, major conventions and other year round events that now don't give this city a second look. (Neither of us has any influence on that decision anyways)

UAB will be happy with either facility that gets them out of Legion Field and into a modern state of the art stadium. What the CITY needs should not ever be dictated by anything but its own goals for its own future. If the BJCC stadium or the MPF is what is chosen, that is what the city will have to live with for many decades. That is the reality for a low income city in a pauper state that could not run long on its own money.