(09-03-2017 09:49 PM)At Ease Wrote:  

(09-02-2017 04:35 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  UTEP down 35-7 at halftime. Should be a pillow fight next week.

Rice opened as a 3 point favorite.

Ya know, I read that as us opening as a 3-point favorite against UCLA.

(09-04-2017 12:37 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how many of Mensa, Sumlin and Ruhle will be available for interviews in early December.

Sumlin, and maybe sooner than that.

So after the Aggie meltdown I guess we can talk less about our SJS meltdown.

One of several brutal stories on the UNLV loss but you could exchange Rice with UNLV and a number of the points would ring true. https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/spo...to-howard/

Hard to pick which of the 3 losses I enjoyed the most. As of now probably Baylor.

Add to the list of WTH happened to their program, Marshall (squeaked by Miami of Ohio at home) and East Carolina run over by James Madison who had over 600 yards of which 400 were on the ground...the scary part is that had they not had 14 flags for 172 yards the margin of victory would have been larger.

(09-04-2017 08:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 12:37 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how many of Mensa, Sumlin and Ruhle will be available for interviews in early December.

Sumlin, and maybe sooner than that.

I dunno, the Teasips seem mighty impatient - some were calling for his firing in the first half of his first game. After he plays TCU, OU, and OSU, will they be happier? As usual, at UT it all depends on the big donors.

No idea about Ruhle. The Bears may be happy just to have a coach who hasn't committed a felony.

(09-04-2017 07:10 AM)Ranger Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 12:37 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 12:27 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Kind of amusing in a way to see such awful starts by TU, aTm, and Baylor.

Sumlin's teams don't play defense, and this looks like another one that doesn't.

I don't think the cupboard is nearly as loaded for Mensa as some have suggested. Texas's OL and defense both looked awful. I've heard stories that Charlie didn't really like schmoozing with the THSCA crowd, and that cost him some recruits. Don't know for sure, but that did not look like historic Texas talent on the field versus Maryland.

It's hard to believe Baylor can be that bad. I guess that is just a program in total disarray for now. I hope Ruhle can turn it around. He seems like a good choice.

And I think Mensa will prove a good choice for Texas, but it may take a while.

I wonder how many of Mensa, Sumlin and Ruhle will be available for interviews in early December.

Won't help us. None will come here. In fact, until we demand accountability and indicate that non performance in unacceptable, no self respecting coach will come here.

seems odd to me, that a coach fired for nonperformance, maybe in his first year, would look for a place with even stricter standards.

But who knows? I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU.

I think $$$$ and the idea that maybe Rice is not the best path back to a P5 HC job would keep them from applying. But again, I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU. So, again, who knows?

Is this the year we get to find out who the next head coach at Rice is? Whoever he is, I wish him instant success. I think the patience of some here won't last very long.

I definitely enjoyed Baylor losing to one of the inalienable rights.

(09-04-2017 08:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 12:37 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder how many of Mensa, Sumlin and Ruhle will be available for interviews in early December.

Sumlin, and maybe sooner than that.

So, do we want him? A coach who cannot protect a 34 point lead? We used to want him, or somebody like him, when he was at UH.

(09-04-2017 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  seems odd to me, that a coach fired for nonperformance, maybe in his first year, would look for a place with even stricter standards.
But who knows? I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU.
I think $$$$ and the idea that maybe Rice is not the best path back to a P5 HC job would keep them from applying. But again, I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU. So, again, who knows?
Is this the year we get to find out who the next head coach at Rice is? Whoever he is, I wish him instant success. I think the patience of some here won't last very long.

I don't think Kiffin will be at FAU long. I certainly don't think that's where he wants to be, and before long I would expect him to pull enough stupid stuff that they won't be all that excited about him either. In some ways, he's king of Todd with fewer wins.

As for the patience of some. What I want to see, and what I think a lot of people on here want to see, is a Rice team that plays intelligent, disciplined football. Had we played that way against Stanford, we probably would have lost by a comfortable margin--something like 34-17--because the talent differential wold have dictated that, absent some truly unusual and quirky events. But after one offensive possession by each team, it was clear that we weren't going to get that in the first game of 2017. As long as we don't see that, I think a lot of us get very impatient very fast. If we put up a valiant fight but simply get out-athleted, I think most of us can live with that. And I think most of us would be willing then to live with the standard excuses that blame it all on our recruiting limitations. But you don't have to be a 5-star to get a play off on time, or not jump until that play gets off. I'm looking for a coach who can get 2- and 3-stars to play intelligent, disciplined football. That's what Navy does, and they've beaten teams with 4- and 5-stars. Like Notre Dame, for one, and carrying Ohio State down to the last snap at Columbus. I don't think this one can achieve those kinds of results.

(09-04-2017 10:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  seems odd to me, that a coach fired for nonperformance, maybe in his first year, would look for a place with even stricter standards.
But who knows? I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU.
I think $$$$ and the idea that maybe Rice is not the best path back to a P5 HC job would keep them from applying. But again, I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU. So, again, who knows?
Is this the year we get to find out who the next head coach at Rice is? Whoever he is, I wish him instant success. I think the patience of some here won't last very long.

I don't think Kiffin will be at FAU long. I certainly don't think that's where he wants to be, and before long I would expect him to pull enough stupid stuff that they won't be all that excited about him either. In some ways, he's king of Todd with fewer wins.

As for the patience of some. What I want to see, and what I think a lot of people on here want to see, is a Rice team that plays intelligent, disciplined football. Had we played that way against Stanford, we probably would have lost by a comfortable margin--something like 34-17--because the talent differential wold have dictated that, absent some truly unusual and quirky events. But after one offensive possession by each team, it was clear that we weren't going to get that in the first game of 2017. As long as we don't see that, I think a lot of us get very impatient very fast. If we put up a valiant fight but simply get out-athleted, I think most of us can live with that. And I think most of us would be willing then to live with the standard excuses that blame it all on our recruiting limitations. But you don't have to be a 5-star to get a play off on time, or not jump until that play gets off. I'm looking for a coach who can get 2- and 3-stars to play intelligent, disciplined football. That's what Navy does, and they've beaten teams with 4- and 5-stars. Like Notre Dame, for one, and carrying Ohio State down to the last snap at Columbus. I don't think this one can achieve those kinds of results.

First off, I am NOT defending "this one" or saying he should be retained. I am saying that the next guy will have a short honeymoon. It may be over before the first snap if we are offside on the KO or call a timeout before the first down play.

Just saying that a lot of Coach NextGuy's support will dissipate after a few offsides, fumbles and missed tackles. A punt on 4th and 1 here, a run up the middle there, and we will be back to square one, as far as the fans are concerned. The guys who think we should have pulled the string on Bailiff quicker will again be advocating for a quick decision on Nextguy. And I truly doubt if anybody here would be satisfied with losing 34-17, to anybody. I wouldn't. W's and L's are still the biggest things. And at least to me, if we can play Stanford (or anybody) to a 34-17 score, we could have won.

(09-04-2017 10:42 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  First off, I am NOT defending "this one" or saying he should be retained. I am saying that the next guy will have a short honeymoon. It may be over before the first snap if we are offside on the KO or call a timeout before the first down play.

I really don't think the expectations of many are as unrealistic as you attempt to portray them.

Quote:Just saying that a lot of Coach NextGuy's support will dissipate after a few offsides, fumbles and missed tackles. A punt on 4th and 1 here, a run up the middle there, and we will be back to square one, as far as the fans are concerned. The guys who think we should have pulled the string on Bailiff quicker will again be advocating for a quick decision on Nextguy. And I truly doubt if anybody here would be satisfied with losing 34-17, to anybody. I wouldn't. W's and L's are still the biggest things. And at least to me, if we can play Stanford (or anybody) to a 34-17 score, we could have won.

I don't put punting on 4th and 1 or a run up the middle anywhere near the same category as what happened in the first 3 minutes in Sydney. There are certainly times when both of the former make sense, but the latter never can and never will. And I don't think putting up with 12 years of the same mistakes, over and over, constitutes a quick hook for anyone. We are still making the same mistakes we did against Nicholls, and making them repeatedly.

I agree that losing 34-17 means you had a chance to win. And I do not look kindly upon losing games that you have the chance to win. But doing so against a team like Stanford would be a vast improvement over where we are now. It was pretty obvious that we weren't going to have that chance in Sydney by the end of the first quarter, if not before. There are things might be acceptable in a coach's first year, but won't be later. Mensa and Matt Rhule, among others, certainly hope so. But that's not acceptable in the 12th year, and I will predict confidently that both Mensa and Rhule will be gone long before 12 years if those things persist in their programs. By now everything should be in place and functioning smoothly. It's not.

(09-04-2017 11:02 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 10:42 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  First off, I am NOT defending "this one" or saying he should be retained. I am saying that the next guy will have a short honeymoon. It may be over before the first snap if we are offside on the KO or call a timeout before the first down play.

I really don't think the expectations of many are as unrealistic as you attempt to portray them.

Quote:Just saying that a lot of Coach NextGuy's support will dissipate after a few offsides, fumbles and missed tackles. A punt on 4th and 1 here, a run up the middle there, and we will be back to square one, as far as the fans are concerned. The guys who think we should have pulled the string on Bailiff quicker will again be advocating for a quick decision on Nextguy. And I truly doubt if anybody here would be satisfied with losing 34-17, to anybody. I wouldn't. W's and L's are still the biggest things. And at least to me, if we can play Stanford (or anybody) to a 34-17 score, we could have won.

I don't put punting on 4th and 1 or a run up the middle anywhere near the same category as what happened in the first 3 minutes in Sydney. There are certainly times when both of the former make sense, but the latter never can and never will. And I don't think putting up with 12 years of the same mistakes, over and over, constitutes a quick hook for anyone. We are still making the same mistakes we did against Nicholls, and making them repeatedly.

I agree that losing 34-17 means you had a chance to win. And I do not look kindly upon losing games that you have the chance to win. But doing so against a team like Stanford would be a vast improvement over where we are now. It was pretty obvious that we weren't going to have that chance in Sydney by the end of the first quarter, if not before. There are things might be acceptable in a coach's first year, but won't be later. Mensa and Matt Rhule, among others, certainly hope so. But that's not acceptable in the 12th year, and I will predict confidently that both Mensa and Rhule will be gone long before 12 years if those things persist in their programs. By now everything should be in place and functioning smoothly. It's not.

You keep making this about Bailiff. I am not saying Bailiff should be retained, promoted, extended, shot, burned at the stake, run out of town on a rail, idolized, demonized or anything else. ZERO about Bailiff. I am only talking about MY expectations of what will happen to the next coach if he doesn't show a BIG bump up in a very SHORT time. How far up? How short a time? Those are discussion points. I guess we can discuss them once you stop trying to get me to defend Bailiff. I am talking only about how I perceive the Bice fan base and their patience with (a) losing, and (b) mistakes. I am drawing on the comments made on this board since 2007.

I don't think losing respectably qualifies as a big bump up. I don't think most of us will be happy with 4-8 even if it is 12 very well played games. I think a lot of people will be happier with 8-4, even if we average 150 yards in penalties. Happier, not happy, since clearly in that case we should have won 9-12 games.


I don't think we will have much patience with mistakes, if we are losing, even respectably. If we keep losing, I think the same frustration we display toward fumbles and penalties now will be displayed toward fumbles and penalties then.

We have had a taste of success, so I think we will be less patient than in 2006. Example: 2007. JMHO(notice all the "I think"s).

Now I will be interested to see these theories of mine put to the test soon.

(09-04-2017 12:19 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  You keep making this about Bailiff. I am not saying Bailiff should be retained, promoted, extended, shot, burned at the stake, run out of town on a rail, idolized, demonized or anything else. ZERO about Bailiff. I am only talking about MY expectations of what will happen to the next coach if he doesn't show a BIG bump up in a very SHORT time. How far up? How short a time? Those are discussion points. I guess we can discuss them once you stop trying to get me to defend Bailiff. I am talking only about how I perceive the Bice fan base and their patience with (a) losing, and (b) mistakes. I am drawing on the comments made on this board since 2007. I don't think losing respectably qualifies as a big bump up. I don't think most of us will be happy with 4-8 even if it is 12 very well played games. I think a lot of people will be happier with 8-4, even if we average 150 yards in penalties. Happier, not happy, since clearly in that case we should have won 9-12 games.
I don't think we will have much patience with mistakes, if we are losing, even respectably. If we keep losing, I think the same frustration we display toward fumbles and penalties now will be displayed toward fumbles and penalties then.
We have had a taste of success, so I think we will be less patient than in 2006. Example: 2007. JMHO(notice all the "I think"s).
Now I will be interested to see these theories of mine put to the test soon.

Maybe one difference is that I don't have much patience with silly mistakes even when we are winning. If we go 12-0 but have a half dozen delay and motion penalties each game, I would not be happy. If we execute perfectly but go 0-12, or even 3-9, I would not be happy. But the problem with both those hypotheticals is that if we have half a dozen delay and motion penalties every game, we can't go 12-0, and if we execute perfectly we will be a lot better than 3-9, probably never worse than 8-4 or 9-3.

What I want Rice to be is Navy in football and Gonzaga in basketball. I think both are doable. But I think this basketball staff has a better chance of being Gonzaga than this football staff has of being Navy. And while I agree that more support from the top is needed, I think that support has to be earned by showing measurable progress. The BOT put a bunch of university money into the EZF, per my understanding, and I know they did with Tudor. I think both were accompanied by expectations of more progress than both programs have shown since then. Reckling was not built until Wayne had achieved significant measurable progress, and it was seen as the key to the next step. I think that's the way things are going to have to be done. And I think football needs to start showing some positive ROI for the EZF if it expects to get more support going forward. And I really don't have a problem with that.

OO, I do think your comments tend to equate one-offs with trends a bit much. If nothing like our first defensive or offensive series against Stanford had ever occurred before, then I think your comments about short-fuze outrage would be justified. But when it's been the same song, same dance for 12 years, it's time for massive improvement. Same with equating Rice jumping offsides every week with Alabama jumping offsides once in a game weeks or months ago. There is a big difference between letting something happen once and letting it happen repeatedly. As Bill Belichek likes to say, "You coach it, or you tolerate it." I don't think our coaches coach it. But I do think they tolerate it. And in the end, they're both the same.

(09-04-2017 10:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 09:51 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  seems odd to me, that a coach fired for nonperformance, maybe in his first year, would look for a place with even stricter standards.
But who knows? I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU.
I think $$$$ and the idea that maybe Rice is not the best path back to a P5 HC job would keep them from applying. But again, I never thought Kiffin would be at FAU. So, again, who knows?
Is this the year we get to find out who the next head coach at Rice is? Whoever he is, I wish him instant success. I think the patience of some here won't last very long.

I don't think Kiffin will be at FAU long. I certainly don't think that's where he wants to be, and before long I would expect him to pull enough stupid stuff that they won't be all that excited about him either. In some ways, he's king of Todd with fewer wins.
[deletia]

Already, during game 1, he apparently was the person responsible for forcing the Navy/FAU game to continue to the end, despite multiple lightning delays pushing the time well after midnight (and still not done). Read the social media bit about two-thirds of the way down this article. https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...reactions/

Quote:Navy was up by three touchdowns during the final lightning delay, and that last sentence made it seem like they were all for moving on and going home, but Lane Kiffin and FAU weren't having it.

The Ringer's Rodger Sherman picked up on it as well and asked Navy to send him a sign if it were the case.

Code:

Rodger Sherman @rodger_sherman
Navy, blink twice if Lane Kiffin is the guy forcing everybody to stay through a multi-hour lightning delay to finish a 3-TD game at 1 a.m. https://twitter.com/NavyAthletics/status/903840043009236992 …
12:50 AM - Sep 2, 2017

And Navy sent that sign.

You have to see the pictures in the article to follow along and see how Navy responded.

(09-04-2017 12:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-04-2017 12:19 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  You keep making this about Bailiff. I am not saying Bailiff should be retained, promoted, extended, shot, burned at the stake, run out of town on a rail, idolized, demonized or anything else. ZERO about Bailiff. I am only talking about MY expectations of what will happen to the next coach if he doesn't show a BIG bump up in a very SHORT time. How far up? How short a time? Those are discussion points. I guess we can discuss them once you stop trying to get me to defend Bailiff. I am talking only about how I perceive the Bice fan base and their patience with (a) losing, and (b) mistakes. I am drawing on the comments made on this board since 2007. I don't think losing respectably qualifies as a big bump up. I don't think most of us will be happy with 4-8 even if it is 12 very well played games. I think a lot of people will be happier with 8-4, even if we average 150 yards in penalties. Happier, not happy, since clearly in that case we should have won 9-12 games.
I don't think we will have much patience with mistakes, if we are losing, even respectably. If we keep losing, I think the same frustration we display toward fumbles and penalties now will be displayed toward fumbles and penalties then.
We have had a taste of success, so I think we will be less patient than in 2006. Example: 2007. JMHO(notice all the "I think"s).
Now I will be interested to see these theories of mine put to the test soon.

Maybe one difference is that I don't have much patience with silly mistakes even when we are winning. If we go 12-0 but have a half dozen delay and motion penalties each game, I would not be happy. If we execute perfectly but go 0-12, or even 3-9, I would not be happy. But the problem with both those hypotheticals is that if we have half a dozen delay and motion penalties every game, we can't go 12-0, and if we execute perfectly we will be a lot better than 3-9, probably never worse than 8-4 or 9-3.

What I want Rice to be is Navy in football and Gonzaga in basketball. I think both are doable. But I think this basketball staff has a better chance of being Gonzaga than this football staff has of being Navy. And while I agree that more support from the top is needed, I think that support has to be earned by showing measurable progress. The BOT put a bunch of university money into the EZF, per my understanding, and I know they did with Tudor. I think both were accompanied by expectations of more progress than both programs have shown since then. Reckling was not built until Wayne had achieved significant measurable progress, and it was seen as the key to the next step. I think that's the way things are going to have to be done. And I think football needs to start showing some positive ROI for the EZF if it expects to get more support going forward. And I really don't have a problem with that.

OO, I do think your comments tend to equate one-offs with trends a bit much. If nothing like our first defensive or offensive series against Stanford had ever occurred before, then I think your comments about short-fuze outrage would be justified. But when it's been the same song, same dance for 12 years, it's time for massive improvement. Same with equating Rice jumping offsides every week with Alabama jumping offsides once in a game weeks or months ago. There is a big difference between letting something happen once and letting it happen repeatedly. As Bill Belichek likes to say, "You coach it, or you tolerate it." I don't think our coaches coach it. But I do think they tolerate it. And in the end, they're both the same.

Once again, remarks about the last twelve years miss the mark with me.

I cannot remember who it was, but one team I saw Saturday won while amassing a dozen penalties (or more) for 150 yards (or more). Maybe it was because the other team was as inept/unprepared/undisciplined/choose an adjective.

I think most fans care more about winning than style. So, IMO, you are not like most Rice fans. Maybe it is because of your coaching background.

I guess we will have a chance in 2018 to assess the patience of Rice fans. I truly hope they don't get tested, as that would mean we are doing VERY well.

I expect a lot of games with various problems. Penalties, missed assignments, time management failures, whatever. I expect the personnell choices to not be universally acclaimed, and I expect the play calling to be criticized. I expect the feedback to be minimal if we we win, loud and swelling to a crescendo if we lose and keep losing.

So, I don't care who the Next Guy is, he had better win and win fast, because I think the odds of his players and staff being perfect are damn low.

won't make any difference who the next guy is.....they'll have both hands tied behind their back and be expected to pull off miracles with no budget and no talent. The last 55 years has proved that.

by the way, I heard Karlgaard has been cutting the football budget around 10% each year........

(09-05-2017 05:25 PM)davidw Wrote:  by the way, I heard Karlgaard has been cutting the football budget around 10% each year........

He probably has to. Our CUSA TV deal pays us next to nothing now.

(09-05-2017 05:25 PM)davidw Wrote:  by the way, I heard Karlgaard has been cutting the football budget around 10% each year........

??? And you believe everything you hear? If revenues continue to decline (both due to diminished TV revenues and a decline in ticket sales) one would expect one's operating budget to decline....unless the BOT chose to increase it's annual subsidy.

(09-05-2017 05:30 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 05:25 PM)davidw Wrote:  by the way, I heard Karlgaard has been cutting the football budget around 10% each year........

??? And you believe everything you hear? If revenues continue to decline (both due to diminished TV revenues and a decline in ticket sales) one would expect one's operating budget to decline....unless the BOT chose to increase it's annual subsidy.

So JK hasn't been cutting the budget?