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The Rocky Mountain Work Around
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #11
The Rocky Mountain Work Around
Moving Colorado to the B1G is interesting.

B1G gets Kansas & Colorado
PAC gets Texas, TT, Houston, Kansas State & Iowa State
SEC gets Oklahoma & Oklahoma State
ACC gets ND & WV


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08-29-2017 08:41 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-29-2017 07:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  Osborne mentioned Kansas State, Kansas, and Iowa State. Let's assume those three went to the PAC in a PAC/B1G arrangement to pair up with Colorado instead.
The B1G then adds Missouri for 15 dropping the SEC to 13 teams. The SEC then counters with Oklahoma and Texas (the pair they wanted all along) for 15.
The ACC can add Notre Dame for 15.

When you try to make 16, there is a huge drop off and the pieces don't fit very well. Can any of these possibly pay for themselves?
For 16? BYU (football only) to the PAC.
Oklahoma State/Texas Tech to the SEC.
UConn/West Virginia to the B1G.
UConn/West Virginia/Cincinnati to the ACC

What if the specific mention of KU, KSU, and ISU is part of plan to reach into PAC territory?

If the B1G can't get schools like Oklahoma and Texas or crack the ACC then their next best bet is to move into the growing population centers of the West. In order to do that logistically, you need to have a strong central division that bridges the regions together.

What if they did this?

East: Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers
Central: Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Nebraska, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California, USC, UCLA

They achieve several goals...

1. They obviously greatly broaden their territory and network reach.
2. They give Nebraska a division where they have direct access to talent and marquee games...in other words they need NU to be a national power again and they aren't going to do it in the current B1G West.
3. Each region is fairly concise with the exception of the West, but the PAC is spread out anyway so they're used to it.
4. They bring in virtually all of the PAC's elite AAUs.
5. By sticking with 8 team regional divisions, you maintain rivalries and geographically close match-ups.

And I think perhaps the SEC could respond this way although I think most of these moves might be what would cause the B1G to try to reach into PAC territory in the first place...

East: Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia
Central: Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
West: Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

1. I know the thought is reasonable that Arizona, being an AAU school, might end up with the B1G, but the AZ schools have always been together. Value wise, they are about the same so I don't see either being left out given the size and breadth of the market. ASU, after all, is located in the heart of Phoenix and it's a massive school at that.

Furthermore, is there some truth to the rumor that the AZ schools would break away from the PAC and align with Texas? They're not going to join the Big 12, certainly, but this would provide a much more reasonable context for them to stick together, improve athletics, and align with growth states in the East. While it's true that the AZ schools rely on CA students for a lot of their base, it's also true that A) AZ is right on the CA border so one doesn't necessarily need to be in the same conference to adequately recruit such a state and B) CA has been regressing economically for some time now. People and companies are fleeing the state and heading to other places...namely AZ and TX. Perhaps in 20-30 years, the AZ schools won't even be recruiting CA that much because so many people will have left and be residing within their very borders.

2. Texas gets to keep its division of local rivals while simultaneously improving exposure both in the East and the West

3. The networks find a reasonable landing spot for Utah and BYU. They have regional competition and the SEC was probably the only halfway reasonable landing spot for BYU as far as who would be willing to associate with them. The PAC and the B1G are far too secular. That and they seem to have cultivated a relationship with UT. Also, reuniting the Holy War is good for sport in the region.

4. The SEC gets full exposure in TX and completely cuts off the B1G and FOX.

5. The SEC gets maximum exposure in major growing Latino population states. Could pay dividends for decades...
08-30-2017 03:59 AM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-28-2017 04:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think Colorado has potential for the B1G.

I'm not sure CU would make the move though unless the core of the PAC was coming with them. One of the main reasons they went to the PAC was to gain greater access to students in CA. It also helped that they had a lot of alumni in that part of the country.

But I agree that the PAC is vulnerable going forward.

It's possible that they won't leave but if they won't leave then the PAC could use that to leverage them into accepting the adds of Texas and Texas Tech, perhaps even Colorado State so that they have effective control of that state.

Colorado, Colorado State, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Utah, Arizona, Arizona State

USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Washington State, Washington, Oregon, Oregon State
08-30-2017 05:47 AM
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Win5002 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-29-2017 07:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  Osborne mentioned Kansas State, Kansas, and Iowa State. Let's assume those three went to the PAC in a PAC/B1G arrangement to pair up with Colorado instead.
The B1G then adds Missouri for 15 dropping the SEC to 13 teams. The SEC then counters with Oklahoma and Texas (the pair they wanted all along) for 15.
The ACC can add Notre Dame for 15.

When you try to make 16, there is a huge drop off and the pieces don't fit very well. Can any of these possibly pay for themselves?
For 16? BYU (football only) to the PAC.
Oklahoma State/Texas Tech to the SEC.
UConn/West Virginia to the B1G.
UConn/West Virginia/Cincinnati to the ACC

I'm just curious can you provide the comments made and the context? I don't think I heard this. Any articles are nice too.
08-30-2017 09:48 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-30-2017 03:59 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  B1G
East: Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers
Central: Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Nebraska, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California, USC, UCLA

SEC
East: Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia
Central: Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
West: Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

AllTideUp - I hope its okay I edited your message down.

A couple thoughts:
1) I like it. I think it is well thought out and beneficial for all parties involved except Washington St and Oregon St - poor guys.
2) Making a "Southwest" SEC division with the AZ, AZST, UT, BYU, and the TX-4 is great!
3) I'm a little surprised you kept Baylor in. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Baylor was left out and the SEC made a reach for West Virginia. That would shift these divisions.

The B1G setup with these schools is solid. I like it a lot.

I'd set up the SEC schools (3 divisions of 8) slightly different (with West Virginia and not Baylor):

West: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
Central: Texas A&M, TCU, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt
East: West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina
08-30-2017 09:53 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #16
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-30-2017 09:48 AM)Win5002 Wrote:  
(08-29-2017 07:09 AM)XLance Wrote:  Osborne mentioned Kansas State, Kansas, and Iowa State. Let's assume those three went to the PAC in a PAC/B1G arrangement to pair up with Colorado instead.
The B1G then adds Missouri for 15 dropping the SEC to 13 teams. The SEC then counters with Oklahoma and Texas (the pair they wanted all along) for 15.
The ACC can add Notre Dame for 15.

When you try to make 16, there is a huge drop off and the pieces don't fit very well. Can any of these possibly pay for themselves?
For 16? BYU (football only) to the PAC.
Oklahoma State/Texas Tech to the SEC.
UConn/West Virginia to the B1G.
UConn/West Virginia/Cincinnati to the ACC

I'm just curious can you provide the comments made and the context? I don't think I heard this. Any articles are nice too.

https://www.landof10.com/nebraska/expans...ng-big-ten

“First of all, you have to have instability in the league that a team is in for them to want to leave, and so that’s probably the biggest factor,” the 80-year-old Osborne continued. “But I would hesitate to say, ‘Well, the Big Ten ought to approach this team or that team.’ ”

“And we have a lot of friends in the Big 12 [in] a lot of the regent schools like Kansas and Kansas State and Iowa State.
08-30-2017 10:42 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-28-2017 06:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-28-2017 04:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think Colorado has potential for the B1G.

I'm not sure CU would make the move though unless the core of the PAC was coming with them. One of the main reasons they went to the PAC was to gain greater access to students in CA. It also helped that they had a lot of alumni in that part of the country.

But I agree that the PAC is vulnerable going forward.

They might be willing to consider it if they know that they are becoming a bridge to those old line PAC schools making the move. And of course the 14 million more per year they would be making.

That's the only way I see this thing working

Big Ten creates a third division of mostly PAC schools, maybe add Kansas to fill a slot.

But really, if PAC wants to close money gap immediately, they'll sell shares of their PACN to Fox or ABC and gain subscription through their distribution and negotiating methods.
08-30-2017 10:46 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-30-2017 10:46 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(08-28-2017 06:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-28-2017 04:47 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think Colorado has potential for the B1G.

I'm not sure CU would make the move though unless the core of the PAC was coming with them. One of the main reasons they went to the PAC was to gain greater access to students in CA. It also helped that they had a lot of alumni in that part of the country.

But I agree that the PAC is vulnerable going forward.

They might be willing to consider it if they know that they are becoming a bridge to those old line PAC schools making the move. And of course the 14 million more per year they would be making.

That's the only way I see this thing working

Big Ten creates a third division of mostly PAC schools, maybe add Kansas to fill a slot.

But really, if PAC wants to close money gap immediately, they'll sell shares of their PACN to Fox or ABC and gain subscription through their distribution and negotiating methods.

I agree with the strategy of selling a majority % share in the PACN. However, what is that worth? They have lousy attendance numbers and the lousiest percentage of actual viewers. These are a major part of the reasons they can't monetize themselves now.
08-30-2017 11:38 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #19
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
(08-30-2017 09:53 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(08-30-2017 03:59 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  B1G
East: Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers
Central: Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State
West: Nebraska, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California, USC, UCLA

SEC
East: Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia
Central: Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
West: Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor

AllTideUp - I hope its okay I edited your message down.

A couple thoughts:
1) I like it. I think it is well thought out and beneficial for all parties involved except Washington St and Oregon St - poor guys.
2) Making a "Southwest" SEC division with the AZ, AZST, UT, BYU, and the TX-4 is great!
3) I'm a little surprised you kept Baylor in. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Baylor was left out and the SEC made a reach for West Virginia. That would shift these divisions.

The B1G setup with these schools is solid. I like it a lot.

I'd set up the SEC schools (3 divisions of 8) slightly different (with West Virginia and not Baylor):

West: Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, BYU, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St
Central: Texas A&M, TCU, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Vanderbilt
East: West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

I guess I kept Baylor because I couldn't really think of anyone else that Texas would want to take with them in that scenario. I do agree though that Baylor is very vulnerable right now and it wouldn't shock me at all to see them left out.

I think WVU would be a good option too, but in the back of my mind I was trying to leave some options on the table for the ACC to strengthen themselves as well. That and I figured a completely "Western" division would be best for travel.
08-30-2017 02:48 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The Rocky Mountain Work Around
The $$$ may work out if the B1G were to grab the California PAC schools and Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Arizona, Kansas, and Oklahoma. You essentially get all of the PAC's value and a chunk of the B12 value and shed the moochers. Three B1G divisions:

EAST: Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St., Michigan St., Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue
CENTRAL: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas
WEST: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Colorado

The Rose Bowl becomes the B1G's conference championship...with regional semifinals in Indianapolis and Vegas.


Meanwhile, the SEC holds at 14 and the ACC adds Texas.

Nice year-end SEC v. ACC rivalries, including: Florida-FSU, Clemson-SC, Georgia-Tech, Louisville-Kentucky, A&M-Texas, and in-conference rivalries like Alabama-Auburn, Tennessee-Vandy, Ole Miss-MSU, UVA-Virginia Tech, UNC-NC State, etc.

SEC v. ACC champs in the Orange Bowl or Sugar Bowl.


The B12 becomes the buffer power conference, by merging with the PAC leftovers and perhaps a couple other call-ups.

B12 EAST: WVU, Iowa St., Kansas St., Oklahoma St., Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU
B12 WEST: Oregon St., Washington St., Arizona St., Utah, BYU, Colorado St., TBD (SDSU? UNLV?)

B12 Champ in Cotton or Fiesta Bowl....doesn't get a huge P3 media deal, but enough to clearly separate it from the Group of 5.
08-30-2017 03:22 PM
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